Tyranny + Bastard's Wound Expansion Thread

[Roguey]

It takes a special kind of single-mindedness to get hung up over what amounts to 2 hours in a 30 hour game.

I'm going to complain some more about the ending. Paradox and Obsidian should have advertised this as Tyranny: episodes 1-3 or something because this is outrageous. Imagine the Tyrannizng of previous RPGs:

Fallout - You've found the water chip, but the Overseer is concerned about this super mutant army on the rise. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Fallout 2 - You have the GECK, but now the village is gone. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Baldur's Gate - You now know all about Sarevok's treachery. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Planescape Torment - Now that you've told Ravel what can change the nature of a man, it's time to hunt down Trias. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Baldur's Gate 2 - Irenicus has stolen your soul! To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Arcanum - You've found T'sen Ang and have made the decision whether to fight or side with the dark elves. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Morrowind - You must become the Hortator and Nerevarine. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Bloodlines - You finally have the sarcophagus. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Mask of the Betrayer - Myrkul has told you the nature of your curse. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Wasteland 2 - On our way to California! To be continued in DLC or a sequel.

 

[Lhynn]

Not really. Flesh require +1 to hit, Bone +2, Stone +2, Iron +3, Adamantium +3, Clay +1 blunt, and Magical non-magical.
Nothing special to see here, considering there's a +4 quarterstaff in the first shop of Chapter 1 and SoA weapon enchantments reach +5, ToB +6.

Unless you havent prepared for it, which can and will happen, then you have to come up with something else, or maybe you are not aware of this, either way you can beat them in different ways.

Nothing OP illusions can't handle. And if you get enough blunt DR then their fists will actually heal you.

"blah blah blah, you can beat them this way" who cares, at least you could get creative and beat them with different approaches, which is a ton more than what PoE offers. Takes real blindness not to notice the amount of options that have been taken out in this adaptation. This shit wouldnt have flown in 1999, but 17 years later people are praising it? ffs.
In PoE you defeat your enemies in the way youve specialized in, and you do the exact same thing in every fight, step by step, doesnt matter what you are facing, doesnt even matter the state of your party is in.

I wish you would stop acting like BG2 is all hardcore and shit.

Never even implied this was the case. Its a decently challenging game, above average when it comes to anything mainstream or AA. But it does offer a ton more than tranny or poe ever did, better quality too.

 

[Roguey]

"Heh, no, you won't be able to overthrow Kyros and save/conquer the world in our game because we didn't have enough time to include that part yet"--Obsidian Entertainment

 

[Lilura]

When you encounter them for the first time you dont really have those kinds of items at hand, unless you know youll need them and buy a quarterstaff, which none of your fighters use, to deal with them and other non magical immune creatures.

You stroll out of the Chateau with a few +1 weapons and Sarevok's Chaos +2. You have enough cash to buy +3s from Adventurer's Mart and Copper Coronet at the beginning of Chapter 2, before you have even left Athkatla for the outskirts (e.g, Stonefire +3, Staff of Rynn +4 etc. etc. etc.) Not to mention the Flail of Ages +3 with on-hit Slow that bypasses golem MR, conveniently itemized in the stronghold where you first take on irons and clays... Also, warriors aren't barred from a weapon just because they lack proficiency in it: it's +4, it hits anyway.

Never even implied this was the case. Its a decently challenging game, above average when it comes to anything mainstream or AA. But it does offer a ton more than tranny or poe ever did, better quality too.

BG and BG2 were major decline from Fallout and Fallout 2. RTwP for starters. Then, no reactivity.

 

[Lhynn]

You stroll out of the Chateau with a few +1 weapons and Sarevok's Chaos +2. You have enough cash to buy +3s from Adventurer's Mart and Copper Coronet at the beginning of Chapter 2, before you have even left Athkatla for the outskirts (e.g, Stonefire +3, Staff of Rynn +4). Not to mention the Flail of Ages +3 with on-hit Slow that bypasses golem MR, conveniently itemized in the stronghold where you first take on irons and clays... Also, warriors aren't barred from a weapon just because they lack proficiency in it: it's +4, it hits anyway.

Sounds like a plan, let me guess, youve played the game before once or twice.

BG and BG2 were major decline from Fallout and Fallout 2. RTwP for starters. Then, no reactivity.

They werent decline from fallout 1 and 2, they were their contemporaries. the reactivity was kept at a minimum, but at least you could attack whomever you felt like attacking, unlike PoE or tranny. Also fallout 1 and 2 had p. banal combat, IE games combat was miles better despite being RTwP, by virtue of being RTS combat with pause feature added in (and as good or better than any RTS combat), instead of RPG RTwP combat which tends to suck with a RtwP system.
You see, it was a clever twist, instead of using a system that was flawed and shit since the darklands days or even before that, they borrowed the smooth and clear combat from RTS combat. Even the engine was prepped for an RTS instead of an RPG.

 

[Haba]

"Heh, no, you won't be able to overthrow Kyros and save/conquer the world in our game because we didn't have enough time to include that part yet"--Obsidian Entertainment

But don't worry, we'll still let you pay full game price for it!

 

[ilitarist]

Most of whatLilura said I've done on my first playthrough. Those are obvious things.

You see, it was a clever twist, instead of using a system that was flawed and shit since the darklands days or even before that, they borrowed the smooth and clear combat from RTS combat. Even the engine was prepped for an RTS instead of an RPG.

Oh god, how can you be serious. Combat wasn't even considered smooth at the time of release.

And reactivity of GTA level is not a reactivity.

 

[Lilura]

Part IV of my Tyranny walkthrough has been posted.

 

[Azarkon]

Combat being a challenge is usually considered a positive. I agree, to a degree, but let me ask you this: what do you think most people who enjoyed Baldur's Gate 2 combat, enjoyed about Baldur's Gate 2 combat?

Was it the joy of a hard game in which the smallest mistake led to failure? The complex strategy required to defeat each carefully planned encounter? Was it the satisfaction of trying a boss fight for the 47th time, and the euphoric high of beating it at last?

Because that's not it.

What most people enjoyed about Baldur's Gate 2 combat was learning the broken mechanics that allowed them feel powerful and awesome as they easy mode their way through fights that should've been difficult.

We know this, because when you ask people what they loved about Baldur's Gate 2 combat, most of the times, the answer comes down to either the magic system, which was incredibly broken, or the cool artifacts, which were only slightly less broken. Have people give you examples of specific fights they remember, and they'll bring up cases like being able to kill Firkaag with a bunch of traps, using a scroll of cloud kill to take down high level mercenaries from a screen away, exploiting the artificial intelligence to beat the game with a one man party, and in short, all the different ways to cheese the game.

I don't believe most people when they say they enjoy a challenge. What they enjoy, rather, is learning how to abuse game mechanics. That's what's fun - breaking shit and feeling smart about it. Doing exactly what the developers planned for you to do, to beat a fight, isn't nearly as satisfying or as fun. In fact, it's boring.

 

[ilitarist]

Very well said, Azarkon.

Still I chase the ghost of challenging and fun fights. I mostly get those from strategy games like XCOM but sometimes you see it in RPGs. I had fun fights in Wiz8 and PoE as well as Final Fantasy 5-6. I even had some interesting fights in Tyranny in Act 1 where I had to think about my tactics and go get some supplies to prepare. I still hope Obsdian patches and fixes Tyranny to have difficulty curve more like PoE. This way you can potentially have the most interesting fights in CRPG with amount of available abilities and customization.

 

[Bubbles]

Part IV of my Tyranny walkthrough has been posted.

You might mention what player level each of these skill check numbers corresponds to. Even somebody who follows your walkthrough to the letter might end up levelling noticeably faster or slower due to their build and party composition, and get totally different skill check values as a result.

 

[Haplo]

Combat being a challenge is usually considered a positive. I agree, to a degree, but let me ask you this: what do you think most people who enjoyed Baldur's Gate 2 combat, enjoyed about Baldur's Gate 2 combat?

Was it the joy of a hard game in which the smallest mistake led to failure? The complex strategy required to defeat each carefully planned encounter? Was it the satisfaction of trying a boss fight for the 47th time, and the euphoric high of beating it at last?

Because that's not it.

What most people enjoyed about Baldur's Gate 2 combat was learning the broken mechanics that allowed them feel powerful and awesome as they easy mode their way through fights that should've been difficult.

We know this, because when you ask people what they loved about Baldur's Gate 2 combat, most of the times, the answer comes down to either the magic system, which was incredibly broken, or the cool artifacts, which were only slightly less broken. Have people give you examples of specific fights they remember, and they'll bring up cases like being able to kill Firkaag with a bunch of traps, using a scroll of cloud kill to take down high level mercenaries from a screen away, exploiting the artificial intelligence to beat the game with a one man party, and in short, all the different ways to cheese the game.

I don't believe most people when they say they enjoy a challenge. What they enjoy, rather, is learning how to abuse game mechanics. That's what's fun - breaking shit and feeling smart about it. Doing exactly what the developers planned for you to do, to beat a fight, isn't nearly as satisfying or as fun. In fact, it's boring.

Very well said. That's why I loved Fallout combat. I even liked PS:T combat.
I liked MMX a lot but didn't care much about the overbalanced Lords of Xulima.
Now I enjoy Elminage: Gothic (and the various overpowered summoned characters).

Though breaking the game shouldn't go too far and/or too fast. I dislike D:OS for that reason - I broke the game roughly at the starter town.

 

[Bubbles]

the overbalanced Lords of Xulima.

Celerity

 

[bminorkey]

It's amazing no-one's ever done the hero to zero subversion considering how much devs like subverting everything.

a game that accomplishes this is the JRPG Nier

 

[veevoir]

And how many games strip you off your shit and throw into some dungeon to fight your way out? Sure it is not a full story arc, but a pretty good subversion - you suddenly are reduced to zero..

Fuck you BG2 for that Then again - it makes for memorable moment.

 

[Reinhardt]

Recommend me an RPG where I don't play as someone extraordinary or do something extraordinary.

Battle Brothers.

 

[Lhynn]

Most of whatLilura said I've done on my first playthrough. Those are obvious things.

They are? i have never done anything Lilura has said in any of my playthroughs and i still managed to get by.

Oh god, how can you be serious. Combat wasn't even considered smooth at the time of release.

Combat was smooth at the time of release, biggest problem was pathfinding, and that was mostly fixed. The core of the combat is p. great, derived from a genre played by millions at the time and even today.

And reactivity of GTA level is not a reactivity.

Yet its not GTA level reactivity, you can actually murder a lot of quest givers and take their shit, you can force a fight on your own terms almost always instead of waiting for the cinematic and to be surrounded without taking action . The annoying shit that was an exception in BG is the rule in tranny.

Azarkon you are wrong, what i and most people enjoyed about BG2 combat was that tactics did make a difference, and that you found yourself always fighting differently, both to your own strenghts and your enemies weaknesses, which meant every enemy or party composition you couldnt just trample presented an interesting tactical challenge, and those that didnt represented at least a drain on your resources.

The magic system and the cool magical artifacts made anything you did to turn the tides have an actual effect, unlike poe where if you are losing, you lost, reload, if you are winning you won, keep going (which i suspect is the reason the awesome buttons called combos exist, to break the utter monotony of the shitgame). BG2 was a wild ride, especially with difficulty patches later on, that took advantage of the great combat system to offer an amazing experience. Tranny/PoE by contrast offers only a series of indistinguishable photos you see over and over again.

 

[Lilura]

They are? i have never done anything Lilura has said in any of my playthroughs and i still managed to get by.

Well, I agree with you on how BG2 gives you freedom to handle combat situations in many different ways. So there.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

This tread reminds me of Pillars of Eternity. There are people that like the game, but the vast majority hate it.

Sent from my One using Tapatalk

 

[Roguey]

But don't worry, we'll still let you pay full game price for it!

I wonder if the suckers who bought the $60 and $80 versions regret their purchase or have rationalized their decision.

 

[Lhynn]

I wonder if the suckers who bought the $60 and $80 versions regret their purchase or have rationalized their decision.

If this thread is any indication, its the later.

 

[hell bovine]

Combat was smooth at the time of release, biggest problem was pathfinding, and that was mostly fixed. The core of the combat is p. great, derived from a genre played by millions at the time and even today.

As much as I hate Tyranny's (and Pillars') combat system... At the time of release pathfinding was by far not the biggest problem in BG2. You are talking about a game where liches could (and would) kill themselves with their own spells. The closest you could get to a "near insurmountable" battle was Kangaxx-the-one-trick-pony (and what a genius idea it was to make a demilich who actually doesn't cast spells ).

The reason you can "manage to get by" in BG2 without actually knowing much about the combat system is, because all those epic enemies the game throws at you suffer from terrible AI, bad pathfinding and a multitude of bugs. Those supposedly tough golems? You could feeblemind them. (fixed by SCS and I think some other mods)

 

[Lhynn]

As much as I hate Tyranny's (and Pillars') combat system... At the time of release pathfinding was by far not the biggest problem in BG2. You are talking about a game where liches could (and would) kill themselves with their own spells.

Cannae remember how they would kill themselves. Unless you are talking about the cloak of mirroring.

The closest you could get to a "near insurmountable" battle was Kangaxx-the-one-trick-pony (and what a genius idea it was to make a demilich who actually doesn't cast spells ).

Why is it a problem that it was a one trick pony? you only fought the damn thing once, so it never became repetitive. It was also a very effective trick.

The reason you can "manage to get by" in BG2 without actually knowing much about the combat system is

Thats a lie, if you dont know the system you get destroyed, even on vanilla. I knew the system well (from PnP and BG1), i just didnt know where everything was and what i would face or need, so i tackled everything as it came.

because all those epic enemies the game throws at you suffer from terrible AI, bad pathfinding and a multitude of bugs.

Bugs are standard on a game that offers as many possibilities, and got patched. Ill grant you the terrible AI as well, but i dont get why you point it out, theres almost no RPG with better AI. The whole genre is riddled with retarded enemies.

Those supposedly tough golems? You could feeblemind them. (fixed by SCS and I think some other mods)

Why does that even matter? im not saying they were tough, im saying they presented their own unique challenge, and they did.

 

[hell bovine]

As much as I hate Tyranny's (and Pillars') combat system... At the time of release pathfinding was by far not the biggest problem in BG2. You are talking about a game where liches could (and would) kill themselves with their own spells.

Cannae remember how they would kill themselves. Unless you are talking about the cloak of mirroring.

The closest you could get to a "near insurmountable" battle was Kangaxx-the-one-trick-pony (and what a genius idea it was to make a demilich who actually doesn't cast spells ).

Why is it a problem that it was a one trick pony? you only fought the damn thing once, so it never became repetitive. It was also a very effective trick.

The reason you can "manage to get by" in BG2 without actually knowing much about the combat system is

Thats a lie, if you dont know the system you get destroyed, even on vanilla. I knew the system well (from PnP and BG1), i just didnt know where everything was and what i would face or need, so i tackled everything as it came.

Oh please, I finished vanilla BG2 not knowing how the system worked. (I don't read manuals and I don't play PnP)

The problem with Kangaxx is that it's shitty design to make a demilich who doesn't cast spells. That's how BG2 handled "epic" encounters.

edit: And I suspect that it was a large part of BG'2 charm; it presented all those encounters as "epic, unbeatable" etc., when they were anything but. The entire quest building up to meeting with Kangaxx made you think you are going to face an incredibly powerful enemy, even though the poor little skull had one offensive ability. Heck, the game gave you scrolls that made him practically powerless. Makes you wonder why Athkatla even got an undead problem.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The reason you can "manage to get by" in BG2 without actually knowing much about the combat system is, because all those epic enemies the game throws at you suffer from terrible AI, bad pathfinding and a multitude of bugs. Those supposedly tough golems? You could feeblemind them. (fixed by SCS and I think some other mods)

And I assume you knew that feeblemind would work on golems just because you are that much of a genius? Jesus, people, cut the bullshit. Yeah, you can cheese and trivialize every possible BG2 fight in gazillion different ways. Because you've played it a lot. When you were going in for the first time, blind, it was not an easy game. It wasn't any super hardcore either, but sheer variety of different combat scenarios and enemies with their abilities was very, very good and also quite demanding. Boring, banal shit from Obsidian doesn't even compare to it.