Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[BING XI LAO]

I assumed that Dodge and Evasion would be like Avernum and some other rpgs where playing on harder difficulties makes them not worth it because enemies get improved to-hit. Or because all the strongest boss enemies have good to-hit. Funny that I was broadly right despite knowing nothing of the actual game mechanics when I made the assumption.

 

[ciox]

not happy with evasion. Even with amazing boost from evasive maneuvers natives accuracy with nets is 50%. Evading shots from plasma turrets is rare occurrence too. For reference I easily get 200-300 boost from maneuvers. I play on hard.
Only nice thing is how little damage naga aoe attack does due to reduction.

Should have gone for high int instead... although I didnt realize that you can easilly craft rusting acid traps when I made my choice.

I thought people knew that evasion can't reduce by itself an attack's precision below 40% https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Precision#Skill
This seems to be designed so that light levels and perception (cave ear poison) remain relevant as factors, but it's probably too brutal of a cap.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[hell bovine]

Of course, then you dramatically finish off the Rathound King at level 9, quicksave with trembling fingers, Last Stand runs out, but there's one tick of bleeding left to go...

That's why I tend to give my characters doctor if I have room for a spare feat. I'm not a very careful player and often enough at the end of combat Patsy has a few hitpoints left and multiple dots running. Gauze has no cooldowns.

 

[Blaine]

I've fucked Evasion and Dodge so hard in this thread that their mothers couldn't walk for a week afterward.

I've continued thinking about possible solutions, and I feel that raising their mutual synergy to 50% or even higher might be the best one. It's even logical for them to have very strong synergy: Both skills have to do with avoiding attacks via abstracted acrobatics or whatever. Additionally, an exception should be made so that base ability scaling functions for Dodge and Evasion even if they only hit the level cap via synergy.

My reasoning here is that Dodge and Evasion taken separately each offer far less return on investment than any other combat or crafting skill in the game. Ideally, they should be merged into a single skill—but allowing them to remain two separate skills that only require the investment of one skill is also a workable solution.

I don't give a flying FUCK how useful Dodge and Evasion feats are, either, because that doesn't address the fact that the skills themselves are bad investments when considered separately. If anything, the feats only serve to highlight the problem, because all of them are focused on making Dodge and Evasion not suck for a short period of time.

 

[Inf0mercial]

I have never rage quit quite so hard as when i finally dragged my heavy melee guy to silent isle and found 3 psi beetle goliaths, i actually deleted the saves lol, kind of regret that but i was angry and tired.

Like ok, i like the new enemy's i like the new enemy types, i actually had to come back to kill GMS guys, but no, just no, i had access to the scrapyard from scrappers but at that stage i was so sick of it, the build was metal armour spear on dominating, it did ok but then it hit go into depot A and i could not be fucked with visions of acid dog spam on a melee character.

Grenades make it doable but i did not have the patience to slam my head against a wall anymore, opening and closing a door to throw grenades through does get boring as fuck i will tell you, as does sitting in a corner getting a rathound to hit you and trapping the three alphas behind it to murder them slowly as they take 6 stabs ea of 40 damage ea.

I like the idea of new enemies and new ai stuff but 50% hp is stupidly bloated but even then i could do it, with some patience time and abuse of doors and corners its the 25% sell value that got to me it was too much it does not hurt so much as it delays everything combined with the new enemy types and it just blocks off entire sections of content until you chip sway at a bunch of easier things then backtrack to do them, the sad thing is i know if i made an AR tin can i could mulch most things without all that but i played that so i was looking for a change.

Basically, Hard is too easy at times but Dominating is tedious as fuck.

Also well, if you have a spare skill to invest i honestly can say pickpocket is up there with competing with hacking or a convo skill, probably not lockpick though.

Spoiler

I should finally actually get to Expedition soon, Versatility is actually worth it, it seems on a light punching build, you don't have to invest any skills but you can use Sub Machine guns with that dex boost to AP, its pretty fun, makes robots easier.

 

[ItsChon]

I don't understand people who talking about Protectorate as absolute evil and betrayal of people who hired you in expedition to pirates is wholesome. I know that life of pirate is romanticized, but think twice before calling Protectorate evil after joining to sea version of Ironheads that threatens all cities connected to the water way. And "professor betrayed Bio Corp so he is bad" - fucking idiotic, because all evidence in fucking Underrail suggests that Biocorp sucks at ruling and anybody who supported them is simply mad.
I do think that my decision to give Todd to Expedition was mistake though, because it turned out that I overestimated proffessor's influence on matter and other retards at University managed to ruin everything.

The protectorate is shit because they are on track to be the exact same thing that Old Biocorp was before they were overthrown. That's not even taking into account that they're authoritarian assholes who have no qualms with manipulating and killing innocents to push their own agenda.

Plus, even if I was to ignore all that, I play the game as a SGS loyalist, and weakening the Protectorate directly aids SGS. I pretty much always side with the Eels to give SGS a foothold in Junkyard and help the Free Drones to get the Protectorate out of South Underrail. Also, helping the Pirates weakens the Eels which further strenghtens SGS. Also, it is made clear that the pirates don't kill anyone if they cooperate and give them all their shit.

 

[Blaine]

Although I generally side with the Free Drones and massacre Protectorate forces whenever I can get away with it undetected, I've decided to remain loyal to the Aegis Expedition for one simple reason: My motivations are in line with theirs. It's appropriate, because that makes me a true mercenary.

Yeah, I wanna loot those fucking ruins of all their mold-encrusted valuables, and I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut how many grasshoppers, crabs, snakes, spiders, and pseudo-Scandinavian illiterate savages I have to massacre in order to get them.

This is the post-apocalypse, motherfuckers. I don't give a squeaky fart in a windstorm about respecting some white spear-chuckers' sacred sites and snake gods.

 

[ItsChon]

Although I generally side with the Free Drones and massacre Protectorate forces whenever I can get away with it undetected, I've decided to remain loyal to the Aegis Expedition for one simple reason: My motivations are in line with theirs. It's appropriate, because that makes me a true mercenary.

Yeah, I wanna loot those fucking ruins of all their mold-encrusted valuables, and I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut how many grasshoppers, crabs, snakes, spiders, and pseudo-Scandinavian illiterate savages I have to massacre in order to get them.

This is the post-apocalypse, motherfuckers. I don't give a squeaky fart in a windstorm about respecting some white spear-chuckers' sacred sites and snake gods.

You can loot all the ruins of their mold-encrusted valuables without the Expedition though?

Edit And I'd argue that you can keep more of the loot, as you're not beholden to the Expedition to report your findings.

 

[Blaine]

You can loot all the ruins of their mold-encrusted valuables without the Expedition though?

Edit And I'd argue that you can keep more of the loot, as you're not beholden to the Expedition to report your findings.

I expected that response.

It's the merchants, my dude. I'm not going to kill off two factions' worth of merchants. You need somewhere to sell the loot, after all. Also, they pay you thousands of charons every time you perform some minor task that they're too incompetent to handle without the help of some random hobo from South Underrail.

Also, the pirates are bullshit because there doesn't appear to be any actual piracy going on anywhere unless you join them. It's literally just random Jet Skiers everywhere and nothing else. This DLC is in utterly dire need of dynamic and ongoing random encounters.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ItsChon]

It's the merchants, my dude. I'm not going to kill off two factions' worth of merchants. You need somewhere to sell the loot, after all. Also, they pay you thousands of charons every time you perform some minor task that they're too incompetent to handle without the help of some random hobo from South Underrail.

That's fair enough. Losing Ladelman and Marcus does suck.

Also, the pirates are bullshit because there doesn't appear to be any actual piracy going on anywhere unless you join them. It's literally just random Jet Skiers everywhere and nothing else. This DLC is in utterly dire need of dynamic and ongoing random encounters.

There's no Piracy because it's explained that Aegis have locked the Pirates into the Black Sea due to their control over the Jaws, and the Pirates are avoding hostilities with them until the Professor situation. I made a truce with the Pirates so IDK if there are random encounters with them if you aggro them, but if there isn't than I agree that would help things.

 

[Blaine]

There's no Piracy because it's explained that Aegis have locked the Pirates into the Black Sea due to their control over the Jaws, and the Pirates are avoding hostilities with them until the Professor situation. I made a truce with the Pirates so IDK if there are random encounters with them if you aggro them, but if there isn't than I agree that would help things.

Oh, I'm aware that an in-universe explanation was concocted to explain why you can't witness any actual piracy going on anywhere, but in-universe explanations can be concocted to explain away absolutely anything.

In other words, in-universe explanations are worse than useless when used to defend deleterious features or lack of features (in games), poor plot structure (in books and movies), etc. They're useful only for coherency, continuity, and consistency.

 

[ItsChon]

There's no Piracy because it's explained that Aegis have locked the Pirates into the Black Sea due to their control over the Jaws, and the Pirates are avoding hostilities with them until the Professor situation. I made a truce with the Pirates so IDK if there are random encounters with them if you aggro them, but if there isn't than I agree that would help things.

Oh, I'm aware that an in-universe explanation was concocted to explain why you can't witness any actual piracy going on anywhere, but in-universe explanations can be concocted to explain away absolutely anything.

In other words, in-universe explanations are worse than useless when used to defend deleterious features or lack of features (in games), poor plot structure (in books and movies), etc. They're useful only for coherency, continuity, and consistency.

We were talking about IC reasons behind joining factions so I assumed that's what you meant when you mentioned Piracy.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ItsChon]

Well I've beat the game with 2 characters and taken another to DC since the expansion came out, all on hard. I think I'm about Underrailed out again. It was a fun probably near 100+ (probably closer to 200) since the expansion came out, but I think I'm done. The Expansion was a net positive and I was definitely satisfied with it, especially with the Spears and Temporal Manipulation. Shotguns were nice but weren't my cup of tea, and I didn't try Machete yet as it seems to play similarily to Knives/Unarmed and that's not my cup of tea. Excited for what's up next.

And I found a new favorite build, Spartan Hoplite. Thanks to Blaine pretty much actually.

 

[SenisterDenister]

This is the post-apocalypse, motherfuckers. I don't give a squeaky fart in a windstorm about respecting some white spear-chuckers' sacred sites and snake gods.

I don't know if I would consider Underrail as post-apocalyptic. Yes it takes place after some kind of cataclysm but it's so far past it I think it would almost qualify as part of the Dying Earth genre, especially from things you learn during the Expedition and Deep Caverns. The event that drove mankind underground is so inconsequential to the setting everyone just takes it at face value that the world is a fuck and they're stuck down there and just try to live day-to-day in this brave new underworld. Also, the natives deserve the genocide you're going to inevitably commit. They really do. Kill them, Johnny, kill them all.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Parabalus]

not happy with evasion. Even with amazing boost from evasive maneuvers natives accuracy with nets is 50%. Evading shots from plasma turrets is rare occurrence too. For reference I easily get 200-300 boost from maneuvers. I play on hard.
Only nice thing is how little damage naga aoe attack does due to reduction.

Should have gone for high int instead... although I didnt realize that you can easilly craft rusting acid traps when I made my choice.

I thought people knew that evasion can't reduce by itself an attack's precision below 40% https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Precision#Skill
This seems to be designed so that light levels and perception (cave ear poison) remain relevant as factors, but it's probably too brutal of a cap.

The cap is pretty hard to reach given the absurd skill values of enemies, they can have 400-500+ attack.



Dodge is useable solely because of uncanny.

I like the idea of new enemies and new ai stuff but 50% hp is stupidly bloated but even then i could do it, with some patience time and abuse of doors and corners its the 25% sell value that got to me it was too much it does not hurt so much as it delays everything combined with the new enemy types and it just blocks off entire sections of content until you chip sway at a bunch of easier things then backtrack to do them, the sad thing is i know if i made an AR tin can i could mulch most things without all that but i played that so i was looking for a change.

The sell value nerfs are the worst part about DOMINATING. Mercantile is pretty much mandatory.

I have never rage quit quite so hard as when i finally dragged my heavy melee guy to silent isle and found 3 psi beetle goliaths, i actually deleted the saves lol, kind of regret that but i was angry and tired.

The Coretech questline has 6 Goliathuses, in a small area so you can't cheese as much, and you don't even have Broderick to help .

 

[BING XI LAO]

I love that I must be 75% of the way through the game and I still have no idea what went wrong on the surface. A worse written game would've been insecure about it and shoved it in your face.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

The protectorate is shit because they are on track to be the exact same thing that Old Biocorp was before they were overthrown. That's not even taking into account that they're authoritarian assholes who have no qualms with manipulating and killing innocents to push their own agenda.

Plus, even if I was to ignore all that, I play the game as a SGS loyalist, and weakening the Protectorate directly aids SGS. I pretty much always side with the Eels to give SGS a foothold in Junkyard and help the Free Drones to get the Protectorate out of South Underrail. Also, helping the Pirates weakens the Eels which further strenghtens SGS. Also, it is made clear that the pirates don't kill anyone if they cooperate and give them all their shit.

> helping pirates weakens the Eels which further strengthens SGS
Weakening YOUR OWN FUCKING ALLIES does NOT strengthens your position, at least not when your small station surrounded by monsters, bandits and other pirates (which does not have agreement with you, btw).
> Also, it is made clear that the pirates don't kill anyone if they cooperate and give them all their shit
Yeah, and "cooperate" apparently means give all money, resources and services to pirates in hopes that they don't change their decision or new captain will arise, who does not give a fuck about your agreement. Fuck, did you ever thought that your "alliance" is temporary, until they manage repair derelict ship (or reverse engineering, if full repair is not possible) and go plunder ALL settlements because nobody has enough firepower to stop them?

The protectorate is shit because they are on track to be the exact same thing that Old Biocorp was before they were overthrown

I want to remind you that Biocorp was MONARCHY and logs of derelict ship was really funny to read, about "Emperor of Biocorp" and shit. Authoritarian regime and monarchy does have different traits, so technically Protectorate isn't Old Biocorp.

That's not even taking into account that they're authoritarian assholes who have no qualms with manipulating and killing innocents to push their own agenda.

What about terrorist attacks committed by Free Drones in North Underrail? If I remember, Anastasia in Fort Apogee was victim one of such attack. Hell, what about kidnapping the train, that supposed to help Rail Crossing, because image of Protectorate helping other stations does not suit Free Drones agenda? Hell, I don't deny that Protectorate isn't magical rainbow land and shit, but it does not mean that bunch of retards should kill and endanger civilians that supposed to be freed by their actions against Protectorate.

Look, I understand that some people love explosions and "revolutionary spirit", but I don't think people who sides with terrorist fanatics and extortionary murderers, rapists and robbers (Underrail pirates definitely not about high moral values) have any moral ground to call Protectorate as absolute evil.
I always trying to get an ending when SGS joins Protectorate, but retain maximum privileges and freedoms, because there a slim chance to reform Protectorate to more democratic state from inside, including disbanding CAU and removing corrupt elements by way of arrest or assassination. Free Drones will losing supporters and members, because there will be less and less reasons to fight against United Nations and sooner or later only handful of fanatics will remain. Only to be executed in same place with Lunatics, Iron Heads and other bandits.
Call me optimistic, but this is better than create a possibility of whole SGS being slaughtered in war (like Omega was),killed by plague, eaten by monsters, harassed by bandits and nowhere to call for reinforcements or at least ammo or medicine.

 

[Parabalus]

The Protectorate did nothing wrong.

 

[Blaine]

The sell value nerfs are the worst part about DOMINATING. Mercantile is pretty much mandatory.

That's because zero thought was put into them. See how arbitrary the values are: 50% and 25%. I bet long nights were spent meticulously balancing these difficulty modes.

Mind you, I'm of the general opinion that a lot of developer effort SHOULDN'T be spent on gradated difficulty levels. One is the ideal. Normal is actually completely fine for Underrail, unless you've played through it several times or more and know everything there is to know.

Personally, I'd blow through every combat on Hard almost as easily as I do on Normal, and I'll never in my life touch Dominating, so I continue to play on Normal. If it ever becomes possible to switch off the selling price nerf and the "EMP your whole inventory" nonsense, I'd happily switch to Hard.

I have never rage quit quite so hard as when i finally dragged my heavy melee guy to silent isle and found 3 psi beetle goliaths, i actually deleted the saves lol, kind of regret that but i was angry and tired.

Such thoughtful encounter design.

 

[Parabalus]

The sell value nerfs are the worst part about DOMINATING. Mercantile is pretty much mandatory.

That's because zero thought was put into them. See how arbitrary the values are: 50% and 25%. I bet long nights were spent meticulously balancing these difficulty modes.

Mind you, I'm of the general opinion that a lot of developer effort SHOULDN'T be spent on gradated difficulty levels. One is the ideal. Normal is actually completely fine for Underrail, unless you've played through it several times or more and know everything there is to know.

I have never rage quit quite so hard as when i finally dragged my heavy melee guy to silent isle and found 3 psi beetle goliaths, i actually deleted the saves lol, kind of regret that but i was angry and tired.

Such thoughtful encounter design.

Normal is way too easy, even for first time play. Especially for a Codxer.

The goliathuses are a nice addition, that's the best part about DOMINATING - high-level (DC) mobs in early areas, it really spices things up. Only thing really lacking are the deep worms.

 

[Black Angel]

The sell value nerfs are the worst part about DOMINATING. Mercantile is pretty much mandatory.

That's because zero thought was put into them. See how arbitrary the values are: 50% and 25%. I bet long nights were spent meticulously balancing these difficulty modes.

Mind you, I'm of the general opinion that a lot of developer effort SHOULDN'T be spent on gradated difficulty levels. One is the ideal. Normal is actually completely fine for Underrail, unless you've played through it several times or more and know everything there is to know.

I have never rage quit quite so hard as when i finally dragged my heavy melee guy to silent isle and found 3 psi beetle goliaths, i actually deleted the saves lol, kind of regret that but i was angry and tired.

Such thoughtful encounter design.

Normal is way too easy, even for first time play. Especially for a Codxer.

I disagree. But what do I know, I wasn't a Codexer when I first played Underrail, which also coincided as my first cRPG ever.