Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[hell bovine]

You need to talk to the doc at sgs again. He'll refer you to Chester, who then gets talkative.

i tried that but no luck.

You also need to talk to the bartender at junkyard.

Was the toxic waste dungeon inhabited by mutants? So far I got: psi, cultists, mutants and bots. Apparently there is also one with electro floors.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Ol' Willy]

Btw, if you get the psi dungeon and kill mr dom without killing anyone else, later the guy at junkyard bar will tell you how some people came by with a story how they were rescued from a psychotic cave wizard. It was a nice touch, imo.

Ahh, I suspected that this will happen, but restraining myself from killing those guys is hard at early levels.

 

[Yosharian]

I think a hammer build with some PSI skills sounds really cool, is that doable without crafting?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Ol' Willy]

I crafted a nice amplified laser pistol and mostly cc with thought control.

Energy pistols without high critical chance are trash. Aside from Ambush I don't see any crit enhancing feats in your build. How do you kill stuff?

 

[Jason Liang]

I crafted a nice amplified laser pistol and mostly cc with thought control.

Energy pistols without high critical chance are trash. Aside from Ambush I don't see any crit enhancing feats in your build. How do you kill stuff?

Well... Ambush.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Well... Ambush.

233 damage on crit... Considering that Carnifex has ~2500 HP, you need to hit him like ten times - not counting the misses, non-critical hits and constant need to stand in the shadow and having Carnifex in the light - all of this while Carnifex can end you in one turn. And even with Ambush your critical chance would be just ~50%, so a lot of non-crits to be expected. Well, adding PSI attacks, Imprint and some grenades I guess you can shave some HP from him to be done with six or eight crits, but it's still a lot of hassle.

Well, if you call that "too easy", our definitions of "easy" differ.

 

[Sheepherder]

I think a hammer build with some PSI skills sounds really cool, is that doable without crafting?

It'd work well. Get max STR and use Balor's Hammer, Rathound Regalia, black cloth tabi boots and Death's Grin. Temporal Manipulation is a must. You'd also need high mercantile to get access to high quality tabis and to buy a decent hammer until you can finally get your hands on Balor's Hammer.

I played something similar, but did use crafting for drugs, psi headband and infused hopper tabis. None of which are mandatory.

 

[Jason Liang]

Well... Ambush.

233 damage on crit... Considering that Carnifex has ~2500 HP, you need to hit him like ten times - not counting the misses, non-critical hits and constant need to stand in the shadow and having Carnifex in the light - all of this while Carnifex can end you in one turn. And even with Ambush your critical chance would be just ~50%, so a lot of non-crits to be expected. Well, adding PSI attacks, Imprint and some grenades I guess you can shave some HP from him to be done with six or eight crits, but it's still a lot of hassle.

Well, if you call that "too easy", our definitions of "easy" differ.

I think 5 crits. He took 700 when his Morphine wore off.

 

[hell bovine]

Carnifex isn't difficult if you have thought control psi, same as with most living enemies. But he isn't that resistant (except for morphine, if he gets a chance to take it). Compare that to naga protectors with their hp and resistances, and the 200 critical dmg seems low, at least for energy weapons.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Ol' Willy]

power critical nerf says hello

I was scoring ~500 dmg on crits with Laser Pistol after the nerf regularly.

 

[Jason Liang]

200 critical dmg seems low, at least for energy weapons.

power critical nerf says hello


Jason Liang im more interested whats up with this dagger

I've got 4 more feats to play around with from 18-24, will test out Ripper, Flurry, Hypertoxicity, Aimed Shot, Point Shot, or Execute. I want to see if Red Dragon is effective even with a strength penalty.

 

[Parabalus]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

 

[Sheepherder]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

 

[Parabalus]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

 

[Sheepherder]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if save-scumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

 

[Parabalus]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if saves-cumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

Do you have the damage formula?

I assumed Onslaught multiplies the base damage, which gets multiplied by the crit bonus.

 

[Sheepherder]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if saves-cumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

Do you have the damage formula?

I assumed Onslaught multiplies the base damage, which gets multiplied by the crit bonus.

Supposedly it is additive with other bonuses such as Opportunist, Taste for Blood, Blindsiding and similar. TfB being the easiest one to have on for most of the time. For swords it'd be: Base * (skill+STR) * (bonus damage from feats like Onslaught, TfB, etc. all additive) * Crit Damage * "Increase damage taken" multipliers (this part is fucky. I'm not sure how they interact with each other. Some change your damage reduction, which is the number in the parenthesis in Combat stas window, Defenses tab. Others seemingly increase damage overall). Expertise is added somewhere there as well.
Onslaught is good enough on its own, but it's too much luck and maintenance to make the spec points worth it. For tungsten curved machetes and with Cheap Shots, spec points in CP get 130% crit damage. Onslaught spec adds an extra 100% damage on top of regular Onslaught bonus, at full stacks. Which can disappear at any moment. Even then, how much of a fight will there be left once Onslaught gets to 20 stacks?

 

[Zeem]

I was scoring ~500 dmg on crits with Laser Pistol after the nerf regularly.

I'm currently finishing my big brain epistol run on Dominating (17 INT) and my lasgun usually crits for around 1000 damage. Taking Hypercerebrix boosts it by ~100 more. I don't think I even put any spec points into Critical Power.

 

[Parabalus]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if saves-cumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

Do you have the damage formula?

I assumed Onslaught multiplies the base damage, which gets multiplied by the crit bonus.

Supposedly it is additive with other bonuses such as Opportunist, Taste for Blood, Blindsiding and similar. TfB being the easiest one to have on for most of the time. For swords it'd be: Base * (skill+STR) * (bonus damage from feats like Onslaught, TfB, etc. all additive) * Crit Damage * "Increase damage taken" multipliers (this part is fucky. I'm not sure how they interact with each other. Some change your damage reduction, which is the number in the parenthesis in Combat stas window, Defenses tab. Others seemingly increase damage overall). Expertise is added somewhere there as well.
Onslaught is good enough on its own, but it's too much luck and maintenance to make the spec points worth it. For tungsten curved machetes and with Cheap Shots, spec points in CP get 130% crit damage. Onslaught spec adds an extra 100% damage on top of regular Onslaught bonus, at full stacks. Which can disappear at any moment. Even then, how much of a fight will there be left once Onslaught gets to 20 stacks?

Well that agrees with what I used. So for tungesten machete, it's 490% CDB with 10 CP vs 360 CDB% with 10 O, and a crit does *(1+CBD) damage.

Since everything else is equal, damage would be (1+O stacks * (0.05 vs 0.1)) * (1+ 4.9 vs 3.6), here 8 stacks are enough to outdamage on crits.
With other additive damage bonuses we'd need more stacks, but if we want the average damage you'd need to factor in the crit rate, which would drop them.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I'm currently finishing my big brain epistol run on Dominating (17 INT) and my lasgun usually crits for around 1000 damage. Taking Hypercerebrix boosts it by ~100 more. I don't think I even put any spec points into Critical Power.

I had 8 INT and 14 PER build, I didn't roll INT so hard.

Although, the question: for an energy build, it's better to raise INT or PER? I went with PER as it raises the damage, hit chance and detection, while INT raises only damage and INT related skills.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Zeem]

I had 8 INT and 14 PER build, I didn't roll INT so hard.

Although, the question: for an energy build, it's better to raise INT or PER? I went with PER as it raises the damage, hit chance and detection, while INT raises only damage and INT related skills.

PER is the more balanced option and only a little behind INT in terms of raw damage. I did the math some time ago and the difference between 18 INT and 18 PER with fully specced High-Technicaities on both was around 10% or so. On the other hand high INT also saves you a lot of skill points on crafting and mercantile - allowing you to max out some additional skill like stealth for a more varied and fun run. It's a gimmick build ultimately, and with how powerful epistols are it's still very much viable.