Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sheepherder]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if saves-cumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

Do you have the damage formula?

I assumed Onslaught multiplies the base damage, which gets multiplied by the crit bonus.

Supposedly it is additive with other bonuses such as Opportunist, Taste for Blood, Blindsiding and similar. TfB being the easiest one to have on for most of the time. For swords it'd be: Base * (skill+STR) * (bonus damage from feats like Onslaught, TfB, etc. all additive) * Crit Damage * "Increase damage taken" multipliers (this part is fucky. I'm not sure how they interact with each other. Some change your damage reduction, which is the number in the parenthesis in Combat stas window, Defenses tab. Others seemingly increase damage overall). Expertise is added somewhere there as well.
Onslaught is good enough on its own, but it's too much luck and maintenance to make the spec points worth it. For tungsten curved machetes and with Cheap Shots, spec points in CP get 130% crit damage. Onslaught spec adds an extra 100% damage on top of regular Onslaught bonus, at full stacks. Which can disappear at any moment. Even then, how much of a fight will there be left once Onslaught gets to 20 stacks?

Well that agrees with what I used. So for tungesten machete, it's 490% CDB with 10 CP vs 360 CDB% with 10 O, and a crit does *(1+CBD) damage.

Since everything else is equal, damage would be (1+O stacks * (0.05 vs 0.1)) * (1+ 4.9 vs 3.6), here 8 stacks are enough to outdamage on crits.
With other additive damage bonuses we'd need more stacks, but if we want the average damage you'd need to factor in the crit rate, which would drop them.

You have a good point. I haven't done any math for swords since CP nerf, but it seems Onslaught spec can come up on top of CP now. At least with 8 stacks, which is doable. I guess the CP nerf did make some other specs competitive, at least for swords.
Personally I would still get CP spec over Onslaught, as it's a bit too fickle for me. Mainly because crit dmg doesn't have windup time, so is better during alpha strike turn and cannot be lost on a miss. Losing a significant damage bonus along with getting flurry on CD would be painful.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So what's the best material to use for a sword then? I love the art for Super Steel, but have felt cheated in the past when building them.

 

[Parabalus]

Sword has one of the better uniques, Red Dragon, but it has a 6 INT requirement as well as 6 DEX for the sword feats, 6 AGI if you want to pair it with the Phantom Dancer armor, and 7 STR to take Decapitate.

unique that you obtain after expedition is over or in deep caverns might as well not exist

You can rush through Expedition really fast, especially with the above build since you have stealth.

But after the CP nerf Red Dragon is def. worse than top crafted machetes, it was very close before already.

No? 160q curved tungsten machete is 24-58 damage, 180% crit damage. Red dragon is 30-40 damage, 300% crit damage. So 490% vs. 850% crit damage with Cheap shots and specced CP. A lil' bit less in practice, because I'd get points in flurry spec. Crafted only have crit chance going for them - 7% more on a curved tungsten with weaponsmith. It's closer now, but before the nerf weebsword was the undisputed king with its 1,1k crit damage.

That's prettly low for a crit, you don't take Ripper?

With machete you'd spec Onslaught and q160 isn't top quality.

I didn't include Ripper here because it depends on the enemy health and is not displayed in combat stats, hard to calculate. Even with Ripper, a weapon with higher crit damage will benefit more from it.
Onslaught spec is worse than CP spec on either weapon. It provides less damage per point, can disappear after a miss and kinda has a windup time, you need to build it up, whereas high crit damage is there from the start.

~160 quality is p. much the best you can realistically expect to get. Max 164 from Constantine or 169 from Hannah. Good luck getting tungsten plates out of Constantine, it's all RNG. There's also the new waterways dungeon, which might have something of higher quality, but I went through it like 6? 7? times and haven't seen tungsten of that high quality there. Dunno if saves-cumming works on container loot. And I don't even consider the components from DC.

Do you have the damage formula?

I assumed Onslaught multiplies the base damage, which gets multiplied by the crit bonus.

Supposedly it is additive with other bonuses such as Opportunist, Taste for Blood, Blindsiding and similar. TfB being the easiest one to have on for most of the time. For swords it'd be: Base * (skill+STR) * (bonus damage from feats like Onslaught, TfB, etc. all additive) * Crit Damage * "Increase damage taken" multipliers (this part is fucky. I'm not sure how they interact with each other. Some change your damage reduction, which is the number in the parenthesis in Combat stas window, Defenses tab. Others seemingly increase damage overall). Expertise is added somewhere there as well.
Onslaught is good enough on its own, but it's too much luck and maintenance to make the spec points worth it. For tungsten curved machetes and with Cheap Shots, spec points in CP get 130% crit damage. Onslaught spec adds an extra 100% damage on top of regular Onslaught bonus, at full stacks. Which can disappear at any moment. Even then, how much of a fight will there be left once Onslaught gets to 20 stacks?

Well that agrees with what I used. So for tungesten machete, it's 490% CDB with 10 CP vs 360 CDB% with 10 O, and a crit does *(1+CBD) damage.

Since everything else is equal, damage would be (1+O stacks * (0.05 vs 0.1)) * (1+ 4.9 vs 3.6), here 8 stacks are enough to outdamage on crits.
With other additive damage bonuses we'd need more stacks, but if we want the average damage you'd need to factor in the crit rate, which would drop them.

You have a good point. I haven't done any math for swords since CP nerf, but it seems Onslaught spec can come up on top of CP now. At least with 8 stacks, which is doable. I guess the CP nerf did make some other specs competitive, at least for swords.
Personally I would still get CP spec over Onslaught, as it's a bit too fickle for me. Mainly because crit dmg doesn't have windup time, so is better during alpha strike turn and cannot be lost on a miss. Losing a significant damage bonus along with getting flurry on CD would be painful.

It's only 8 stacks if every attack is a crit, ie. 100% crit rate, since Onslaught also affects non-crits.

IIRC for me it was around 33% (max DEX) without buffs and SI, with infused rathound armor. That drops the avg stacks needed to <3-4.

Usually you have 95% THC so it isn't that bad, and you're less crit reliant so that evens out the spikes.

So what's the best material to use for a sword then? I love the art for Super Steel, but have felt cheated in the past when building them.

Tungsten, but if you don't have 6 STR SS might win out. Probably worse than the katana though.

 

[Calcium]

Jeez man you don't have to quote the entire conversation.

 

[Calcium]

Also fuck that Six nigger. He's basically the equivalent of a Sonic OC fedora fanfic. Him and Ezra are Styg's self inserts.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I my current run I finally unlocked two best dialogues in Expedition: Yngwar and Ferryman.

Yngwar is basically a loredump dispenser about Sormibaeren ways of life. But the fact that he and PC don't speak the same language makes it marvelous. From a narrative standpoint it's just brilliant a decision. Can you imagine a dialogue like this in any 3D RPG, with cutscenes and voice acting? No.

And Ferryman, his discourse about philosophy. Jeebus, that's some serious shit over there, although it heavily borrows from the Samsara concept.

And both of this dialogues are hidden behind the INT requirement, and INT is not the most useful stat in Underrail. It's like "we have two really cool dialogues, but to trigger them you need a character with a high INT score or you will miss them completely". The lost art of subtlety, folks.

 

[forumvisitor#451]

Guys help, I am very fond of this game and after very long time I would like to get back to it and hopefully finish it.

My last build (stealthy crossbower) hit a wall in Deep Caverns and I seemed to not be able to proceed, even with cheesing and using all the tricks like traps etc. It seemed like I was done and my build was just not enough for this. I have been min-maxing as much as possible but still the enemies were far more dangerous and far more plentiful in Deep Cavern. Carnifex was the biggest challenge up to that point.

Question: Is it possible to fuck yourself in terms of what character you develop?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ciox]

Guys help, I am very fond of this game and after very long time I would like to get back to it and hopefully finish it.

My last build (stealthy crossbower) hit a wall in Deep Caverns and I seemed to not be able to proceed, even with cheesing and using all the tricks like traps etc. It seemed like I was done and my build was just not enough for this. I have been min-maxing as much as possible but still the enemies were far more dangerous and far more plentiful in Deep Cavern. Carnifex was the biggest challenge up to that point.

Question: Is it possible to fuck yourself in terms of what character you develop?

Weird, you shouldn't have any trouble with the basic enemies, they're lightly armored and very vulnerable to the crossbow. Mostly avoidable too given how the Eye of Tchort debuff works.
The exceptions are Industrial Bots and the last boss, for these the crossbow and its associated abilities don't do enough damage and go on cooldown long before the fight is over.
The only solution is to try to get as many elemental bolt critical hits as possible with a Cyclon which might be hard to pivot to if you don't have access to the right components and gear.

 

[Ol' Willy]

My last build (stealthy crossbower) hit a wall in Deep Caverns and I seemed to not be able to proceed, even with cheesing and using all the tricks like traps etc. It seemed like I was done and my build was just not enough for this. I have been min-maxing as much as possible but still the enemies were far more dangerous and far more plentiful in Deep Cavern. Carnifex was the biggest challenge up to that point.

What enemies give you the biggest problems?

 

[Black Angel]

Yngwar is basically a loredump dispenser about Sormibaeren ways of life. But the fact that he and PC don't speak the same language makes it marvelous. From a narrative standpoint it's just brilliant a decision. Can you imagine a dialogue like this in any 3D RPG, with cutscenes and voice acting? No.

Dialogue with Christine in New Vegas's Dead Money, using a char with high INT (or was it speech or both? Couldn't exactly remember) is close enough. Although, I vaguely remembered the gestures Christine made were the exact same as any other NPCs, and Obsidian had to rely on the dialogue to convey what she's trying to say.

 

[forumvisitor#451]

what diff are you playing?

Normal, Oddity

Weird, you shouldn't have any trouble with the basic enemies, they're lightly armored and very vulnerable to the crossbow. Mostly avoidable too given how the Eye of Tchort debuff works.
The exceptions are Industrial Bots and the last boss, for these the crossbow and its associated abilities don't do enough damage and go on cooldown long before the fight is over.
The only solution is to try to get as many elemental bolt critical hits as possible with a Cyclon which might be hard to pivot to if you don't have access to the right components and gear.

Kind of a been there, done that.

What enemies give you the biggest problems?

Faceless and the mushroom enemies.

Unfortunately I just checked - disregard the talk about my previous character because my savegames got corrupted. I will go for a pure psi character this time.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Faceless and the mushroom enemies.

Unfortunately I just checked - disregard the talk about my previous character because my savegames got corrupted. I will go for a pure psi character this time.

Don't skimp out on Thought Control. Buffed-up Neural Overload with some critical modification works wonders against Tchort.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Faceless and the mushroom enemies.

It's better to stay on friendly terms with Faceless.
Mushroomy fuckers are rendered way less dangerous with bio-protection suit.

 

[Fenix]

Back when you did your level 1 playthrough and set his difficulty balancing sense on the right track. :D

Ahaha, I didn't think someone remember this. And looks like I didn't like grenades from the start.
I think Styg could write more honestly - Wyatt's texts are so good in my opinion.

- Problem with grenades is that throwing them precisely where you want is too easy, expect that to change in the future.

I'm sure something was done, but not enough. ))

 

[Fenix]

Feats typically personalize your character in other rpgs, but in Underrail what defines your character is your main attribute and the skills you choose to focus on.

Stats do a little for build - the real utility coms form feats.

- The game is sort of in a bad spot of not being plot driven, but not having enough diverse content to being a true sandbox either. There's places to explore and quests in those places, but not much else.

Kinda agree, but what this "much else" could be?

If you find dominating easy on this build, you either use liberal amount of traps, or

...massaging save/load buttons...

I did Lunatic Mall around lvl 8

How you got to it at lvl 8?

question: for an energy build, it's better to raise INT or PER?

Consider that if you will raise Int you will have skill point problems no more, ever, reasonably speaking.

 

[Stavrophore]

Lunatic Mall at lvl 8? What is this sorcery?

 

[Ol' Willy]

Consider that if you will raise Int you will have skill point problems no more, ever, reasonably speaking.

I didn't have any skillpoint problems even with 8 INT - and had some to spare. Thing is, the amount of SP you can invest into skills is strictly limited, therefore there is no need to save on SP with INT related skills because you can't invest them into the needed skills. It may save some hassle in the early game, but largely irrelevant later.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hey, what's a good build for a thought controller?

 

[Ghulgothas]

Hey, what's a good build for a thought controller?

This is the first draft of my second try at a TC/MT Psientist build I plan to run sometime after I'm down with my current Shadowman Build. Really whatever gets you access to Premeditation and Locus of Control, bunching up a group of goons and setting them against eachother with a LoC'ed Enrage or Bilocation was the highlight of the build when I ran it the first time. The Cryokinetic side of Metathermics plays really well with Thought Control, and Chem Pistols just ad another layer of crowd control to the repertoire. And then there's energy weapons for when you just need to kill things outright.

 

[Fenix]

therefore there is no need to save on SP with INT related skills because you can't invest them into the needed skills.

I don;t understand you. At the time you have much more skill points than usual, thus you flex them more freely. That's obvious whne you play that build.
There are many skills you could want to put in your skill points.

 

[Raghar]

I'm currently finishing my big brain epistol run on Dominating (17 INT) and my lasgun usually crits for around 1000 damage. Taking Hypercerebrix boosts it by ~100 more. I don't think I even put any spec points into Critical Power.

I had 8 INT and 14 PER build, I didn't roll INT so hard.

Although, the question: for an energy build, it's better to raise INT or PER? I went with PER as it raises the damage, hit chance and detection, while INT raises only damage and INT related skills.

I used cheat engine at level 18, and had fun with non optimized character.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

Lunatic Mall at lvl 8? What is this sorcery?

Slowly, with a lot of restealthing, and using imprint at choke points. And knives are great against Lunatics. It's the high point of the game for me.

I did Lunatic Mall around lvl 8

How you got to it at lvl 8?

I was looking for Rail Crossing after Depot A and ended up in Core City first. Playing on oddity.

Kinda agree, but what this "much else" could be?

Sort of the stuff you could do in a real sandbox like Arcanum. Build an army of automatons, mind control every female character in the game to create a harem of disposable assassin whores, create a legitimate economy, etc... Even Fallout 2 you could play the entire game as a slaver, etc...