Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[oldmanpaco]

Is the energy edge emitter worth it for a sword or is the damage lost not really worth it?

Whats to lose by including one besides ease of repair?

Energy emitters reduce mechanical damage by 10%, reducing the power of your crits.

it all depends on how often you crit. Energy dmg added by emitter cant crit. Also is consumes a lot of energy, you will be reloading nearly each turn.

It really is just a robo beater

Whelp I never noticed that before. Thought it was just added dmg with extra crafting and ammo cost.

 

[Trashos]

All right, I read the lvl6 guy's story. I think what he did was very interesting, but I do not believe that it has any bearing to judging the difficulty of the game.

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

 

[Jason Liang]

Darkest Dungeon

Darkest Dungeon is harder only because it doesn't have savescumming option. With it, it would be fairly easy even on top difficulty.

Underrail has simple AI and enemies with simple gimmicks. You also control initiative most of the time.

Darkest Dungeon you can't avoid getting hit or avoid getting crit'd. The character skills are fairly balanced, unlike some of the insanely op psi abilities or feats in Underrail. If an ability or weapon is too OP to give to the AI, like Imprint or Force Field, then probably not a good thing to give it to the player. More to the point, Darkest Dungeon has progressive difficulty which is really satisfying, unlike Underrail where your character suddenly jumps from lvl 8 to lvl 16 "oops I guess I'm OP now." Beating the game at lvl 6 is some rarefied fetish, but you certainly don't need 24 lvls to beat this game comfortably.

 

[Jason Liang]

All right, I read the lvl6 guy's story. I think what he did was very interesting, but I do not believe that it has any bearing to judging the difficulty of the game.

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

It's the same "I win button" issue that AoD has with Bolas and Bombs.

RPGs with elaborate character systems, without actually having content challenging enough to make good use of them - Arcanum, AoD, and now Underrail.

 

[Trashos]

Iirc, you still had to hit with bolas, right? I have never used the toxic grenades, but if I understand correctly it is just a WIN button with no downsides. You could basically ironman the game with them if it was all biological enemies. So they are just broken, unless I am missing something.

 

[Jason Liang]

Iirc, you still had to hit with bolas, right?

There's a chance to miss if you go for bola choke, but it is completely skill independent. Choke is a flat 60% success rate and can't be dodged either iirc.

More problematic is that while the enemy is choking or prone, you autohit them at any distance with 0 skill.

 

[hell bovine]

All right, I read the lvl6 guy's story. I think what he did was very interesting, but I do not believe that it has any bearing to judging the difficulty of the game.

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

It's the same "I win button" issue that AoD has with Bolas and Bombs.

RPGs with elaborate character systems, without actually having content challenging enough to make good use of them - Arcanum, AoD, and now Underrail.

Are you talking about the tchort level 6 run here? Because that was done with serial reloading to get favorable random enemy placement. That's not an "I win button" strategy by any means.

 

[Jason Liang]

All right, I read the lvl6 guy's story. I think what he did was very interesting, but I do not believe that it has any bearing to judging the difficulty of the game.

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

It's the same "I win button" issue that AoD has with Bolas and Bombs.

RPGs with elaborate character systems, without actually having content challenging enough to make good use of them - Arcanum, AoD, and now Underrail.

Are you talking about the tchort level 6 run here? Because that was done with serial reloading to get favorable random enemy placement. That's not an "I win button" strategy by any means.

We're talking about toxic gas grenades but Underrail has many other "I win" buttons.

 

[hell bovine]

We're talking about toxic gas grenades but Underrail has many other "I win" buttons.

If there are so many "I win" buttons avaible, why the save & reload to avoid enemies?

 

[Yaz]

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

Toxic Gas Grenades in this context only work if you place yourself very close to enemies but outside of their field of vision, then you throw a Gas Grenade in your field of vision while in turn-based mode which will prevent enemies from disarming the 'nade, but it will also prevent them from attacking you since the turn-based mode won't automatically end as you're in the enemies' proximity. If you think the devs are not aware of that you're wrong. Even if it were a way to cheese some encounters, it's only a way to do so on rather limited occasions. Not to mention your very high consumption of gas 'nades, as sometimes you'd need two to kill an enemy, ect. I, personally, wouldn't call that a reliable or enjoyable way of progressing through the game.

 

[Parabalus]

All right, I read the lvl6 guy's story. I think what he did was very interesting, but I do not believe that it has any bearing to judging the difficulty of the game.

I will say however that the toxic gas cheese is unfortunate, and it should be fixed (if it hasn't already).

It's the same "I win button" issue that AoD has with Bolas and Bombs.

RPGs with elaborate character systems, without actually having content challenging enough to make good use of them - Arcanum, AoD, and now Underrail.

Bolas don't even win you anything in AoD outside of the rare 1v1.

from AoD is a tough bastard, but you can bypass him as well or weaken him. Only one of my three combat builds was able to best him in the open fight without weakening.

Guessing the dagger build did it?

Darkest Dungeon you can't avoid getting hit or avoid getting crit'd. The character skills are fairly balanced, unlike some of the insanely op psi abilities or feats in Underrail. If an ability or weapon is too OP to give to the AI, like Imprint or Force Field, then probably not a good thing to give it to the player. More to the point, Darkest Dungeon has progressive difficulty which is really satisfying, unlike Underrail where your character suddenly jumps from lvl 8 to lvl 16 "oops I guess I'm OP now." Beating the game at lvl 6 is some rarefied fetish, but you certainly don't need 24 lvls to beat this game comfortably.

Darkest dungeon, where you run 4 hellions and spam crit to win?

 

[Jason Liang]

We're talking about toxic gas grenades but Underrail has many other "I win" buttons.

If there are so many "I win" buttons avaible, why the save & reload to avoid enemies?

Available to a normal character, not a self-gimped lvl 6 character.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

Darkest dungeon, where you run 4 hellions and spam crit to win?

You know they balanced this and put out 2 dlcs?

 

[hell bovine]

Available to a normal character, not a self-gimped lvl 6 character.

Gas grenades are available to a level 6 character.

 

[Parabalus]

Darkest dungeon, where you run 4 hellions and spam crit to win?

You know they balanced this and put out 2 dlcs?

Yeah, they when the DLCs come out they nerf the old classes. It's just flagellants now.

 

[Trashos]

If you think the devs are not aware of that you're wrong. Even if it were a way to cheese some encounters, it's only a way to do so on rather limited occasions. Not to mention your very high consumption of gas 'nades, as sometimes you'd need two to kill an enemy, ect. I, personally, wouldn't call that a reliable or enjoyable way of progressing through the game.

I only have a vague understanding of how they work (because I haven't used them). But it seems to me that they are a surefire way to kill anyone who can be affected by them, as long as it is not a case of "you enter the location and everyone attacks you immediately".

What risk do they come with?

 

[Parabalus]

If you think the devs are not aware of that you're wrong. Even if it were a way to cheese some encounters, it's only a way to do so on rather limited occasions. Not to mention your very high consumption of gas 'nades, as sometimes you'd need two to kill an enemy, ect. I, personally, wouldn't call that a reliable or enjoyable way of progressing through the game.

I only have a vague understanding of how they work (because I haven't used them). But it seems to me that they are a surefire way to kill anyone who can be affected by them, as long as it is not a case of "you enter the location and everyone attacks you immediately".

What risk do they come with?

It's basically an exploit, where you enter TB to suppress the AI disarming them. Similar to spamming cloudkill from offscreen to kill mobs in unmodded BG.

 

[Trashos]

OK, but going TB just before starting the fight is generally a legit (and very basic) tactic.

I do not understand Styg sometimes. I remember that patch when he nerfed freaking pistols, and then he leaves things like this in.

 

[Yaz]

What risk do they come with?

They are some of the more rare stock. You'd need 3d party programs to refresh the merchants' stock(I never do that) in order to have enough if you plan on using them all the time.

Outside of the hitherto described cheese you need a reliable way of forcing the enemies to stand inside of the cloud. The cloud will also damage you, unless you're protected. They will move out of it and/or disarm the 'nade outside of combat. Funnelling an entire map to a single tile entrance room with enough space to bounce is a good way to use them, provided you have a way of blocking that one entrance tile.

I think they are actually much more situational than a tool that can ''cheese'' you through the game.

But you will soon make yourself some and you will see everything there's to see.

 

[Sykar]

Well point proven, Jason Liang claim that UR is "easy" can be dismissed since any game is easy if you can exploit the shit out of it including save-scumming, one of the most laughable arguments ever made when it comes to difficulty. All in all this retarded claim has proven to be nothing but hot air once you look at the fabled explanation of that "level 6 run" which was mostly "level 6 save scum through the game and exploit the shit out of it because otherwise I get assraped'.

 

[Parabalus]

OK, but going TB just before starting the fight is generally a legit (and very basic) tactic.

I do not understand Styg sometimes. I remember that patch when he nerfed freaking pistols, and then he leaves things like this in.

This is not TB starting a fight, it's standing deliberately in a 2-3 square range, where you don't actually fight them. You have to try on purpose to bug them out.

Gas grenades are otherwise mostly useful for the Beast fight and as extra help if herding a map to a door. Good example is lunatic mall, faceless or pirate base, where the whole map aggros you and stacks up in front of a doorway.

 

[Jason Liang]

Well point proven, Jason Liang claim that UR is "easy" can be dismissed since any game is easy if you can exploit the shit out of it including save-scumming, one of the most laughable arguments ever made when it comes to difficulty. All in all this retarded claim has proven to be nothing but hot air once you look at the fabled explanation of that "level 6 run" which was mostly "level 6 save scum through the game and exploit the shit out of it because otherwise I get assraped'.

Um, no. I played through Underrail normally on DOMINATING Oddity, did not even find Depot A that hard, immediately after the world opened up I could scrounge enough Oddities to vault to level 16 and everything was a joke with LoC except Lunatic Mall, the only part of the game I found where the combat was satisfying, which I did at lvl 12.

Using line of sight to stealth and learning how to restealth are I assume valid strategies that it seems like several people never bothered to learn in the first place.

Also it's not an exploit if the game showers you with abilities and gear to fuck your enemies over while they can't do the same to you, like Imprint and Tasers. It's just poorly balanced combat.

I was looking forward to Underrail assrape but instead all I got was fellatio:\

 

[Trashos]

They are some of the more rare stock. You'd need 3d party programs to refresh the merchants' stock(I never do that) in order to have enough if you plan on using them all the time.

Yes, the 6lvl guy mentions that he used the cheat engine. But the ingredients are not THAT rare. You can legitimately get enough ingredients to win several fights like this. And the question is "why?".

This is not TB starting a fight, it's standing deliberately in a 2-3 square range, where you don't actually fight them. You have to try on purpose to bug them out.

OK, if we are to consider this a bug, then fine. Still, if they cannot fix it, I will argue that these grenades probably do more harm to the game than good.

 

[Yaz]

OK, if we are to consider this a bug, then fine. Still, if they cannot fix it, I will argue that these grenades probably do more harm to the game than good.

You'd be surprised that you can't actually cheese a lot with those... I mean, at this point I actually invite you to try and come back and share the results.

Also, another point when reading people's builds and such. In Underrail there's a general trend that when someone does something cool, like 5 digits crits for example, it becomes a pivotal point of their entire build - a selling point which they present forward. If someone said that they can go through large portions of the game using Toxic Gas 'Nades cheese I'd say that's a slightly overenthusiastic exaggeration stemming from the fact they learned something new about the game.