Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Tygrende]

in lower passages there are no oddities afaik

Human scalp and teeth necklace.

hmmm... not what i meant. What was the area called, vast caves at the bottom with nothing but crawlers, psy bugs and few bunkers? It was actually my dominating run that i explored them fully for first time and was quite disappointed

You mean upper caves? There's still a few in there, but yeah not that many. Rat head amulet comes to mind first.

 

[lukaszek]

in lower passages there are no oddities afaik

Human scalp and teeth necklace.

hmmm... not what i meant. What was the area called, vast caves at the bottom with nothing but crawlers, psy bugs and few bunkers? It was actually my dominating run that i explored them fully for first time and was quite disappointed

You mean upper caves? There's still a few in there, but yeah not that many. Rat head amulet comes to mind first.

yeah that one. You can obtain full set of rat heads without going there

 

[jackofshadows]

Caves are just fucking caves. The fact that the game tells to oddity player GTFO is nice actually while classic xp virgins should struggle about whether or not they should clear it.

 

[Tygrende]

in lower passages there are no oddities afaik

Human scalp and teeth necklace.

hmmm... not what i meant. What was the area called, vast caves at the bottom with nothing but crawlers, psy bugs and few bunkers? It was actually my dominating run that i explored them fully for first time and was quite disappointed

You mean upper caves? There's still a few in there, but yeah not that many. Rat head amulet comes to mind first.

yeah that one. You can obtain full set of rat heads without going there

Only if you get lucky in the gauntlet. Otherwise you need the one from upper caves for all 5 studies.

 

[grumf]

I recently completed a 100% oddity run on Dominating (posted in the discord). I hit level 30 just before entering DC (faceless oddities at the elevator) with all base game + expedition oddities.

You have to join JKK (unless you want to rely on the RNG of the gauntlet for a train log) and the Free Drones to get them all in a single playthrough, also the two headed mutie can spawn if you revisit depot A.

 

[jackofshadows]

JKK has oddities on their base which is basically unaccessible otherwise. But what about Free Drones? The gas should dissipate after some time now, isn't it? Or it's about something else? Never joined them yet.

 

[Fedora Master]

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.
View attachment 18844

it doesn't even list a unit, it could weigh 3 marshmallows.

 

[Tygrende]

JKK has oddities on their base which is basically unaccessible otherwise. But what about Free Drones? The gas should dissipate after some time now, isn't it? Or it's about something else? Never join them yet.

You can get the JKK HQ oddity without joining them, that's not the reason. All you have to do is ask all the oligarchs for a job before actually talking to their quest giver - that way you're allowed into the 1st floor of all HQs.

 

[grumf]

JKK has oddities on their base which is basically unaccessible otherwise. But what about Free Drones? The gas should dissipate after some time now, isn't it? Or it's about something else? Never join them yet.

JKK has easy access to a train log oddity that is locked behind one of their quests, there is only 9 of them in the game, apparently one is in the gauntlet, but I've never been able to find it (you still have to clear fort apogee to get the train log behind Fraser's office and to get the protectorate insignia from upstairs aswell).

The only way to get the second protectorate can oddity is via the free drones quest in the junkyard, its locked behind one of the doors that are not accessible if you join protectorate

 

[jackofshadows]

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.
View attachment 18844

No, this is different because thouse who craft shotgun shells are able to do it right on the spot and move on. For thouse who don't craft them it's useless loot therefore should be simply ignored like many, many other junk. But repair kits are useful for any gun user so you wanna have some with you all the time but its weight was increased to alarming values over the patches. It's still no big deal if you have some mechanics investment (that way you can craft them from any cheap weapons skattered around if needed) and you wanna have mechanics raised for a gun user. And yet its weight is slightly ridiculous.

 

[Fedora Master]

View attachment 18837

WHY ARE BANDAGES SO HEAVY DAAAAAMN

I take it you didn't check repair kits weight yet.

Motherf...
Okay, the weight of items is generally fucked.
View attachment 18844

No, this is different because thouse who craft shotgun shells are able to do it right on the spot and move on. For thouse who don't craft them it's useless loot therefore should be simply ignored like many, many other junk. But repair kits are useful for any gun user so you wanna have some with you all the time but its weight was increased to alarming values over the patches. It's still no big deal if you have some mechanics investment (that way you can craft them from any cheap weapons skattered around if needed) and you wanna have mechanics raised for a gun user. And yet its weight is slightly ridiculous.

But ammo isn't the most rare consumable out there. If anything I'd say its healing items. Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

 

[Ghulgothas]

But ammo isn't the most rare consumable out there. If anything I'd say its healing items.

That will change once you start making headway into the game post-Depot A. One of the biggest aggregates of dead weight is all the Health Hypos, Bandages and Psi Boosters you never use.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spoiler

lmao at pretending most of the people playing this game don't just use cheats to have unlimited weight

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I don't use cheats on this one tbh.

 

[jackofshadows]

Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

Yeah, forgot about that. Probably that's because I don't bother to craft ammo at all although there're some really juicy types of ammo which vendors don't sell. Incendiary for example or contaminated. As for healing items, they are no problem once you get past Depot A. If you build isn't shit, you'll be storing or selling them for the rest of the game.

Nah, even after current run where I had to check one certain vendor for good enough seeker lens like 10 extra times I don't want to install cheat engine let alone checking some other than vendor options. Managing inventory is part of the game.

 

[Tygrende]

Also to craft shotgun shells you need goddamn metal plates which are way to heavy to lug around but also rarely found in the wild.

Buy them from Leonie in front of Foundry and Colton/Gort/Len/the other junk trader at Junkyard. Junkayrd is especially good because they all sell low quality plates, which are ideal because quality doesn't matter for ammo. All of them are close to fast travel.

 

[Blaine]

Tygrende

Here's a list of oddities that require Pickpocketing, high Stealth, initially neutral/friendly faction slaughter, and/or (as in the case of Aegis badges) luck with corpses killed by someone or something else, keeping in mind that looting non-hostile faction corpses sometimes also requires high Stealth:

https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Foul_Mouth_Wash
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Aegis_Incorporated_Badge
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Anarchist_Symbol
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Black_Eel_Insignia
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weird_Pipe_Junction
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boat_in_a_Bottle
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Brzozplno_Nebrechega_Skontam
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dreadnought_Controller
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Empty_Infusion_Tank
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Faceless_Mask_Fragment
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=JKK_Pen
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Protectorate_Insignia
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Praetorian_Security_Insignia
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Protectorate_Soldier_Dog_Tags
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Scrapper_Insignia
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sword_Handle
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Protectorate_Can

The odd oddity out, requires Hacking:
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Old_Money

No doubt I included a couple that don't belong for whatever reason, but then I almost certainly also missed including a couple that should be included. Some of these will of course be obtainable by pretty much any character, depending on faction choices; but that still leaves >10% of the oddities in the base game—and closing in on 20% of the pre-DC base game oddities—obtainable only by stealth, subterfuge, or faction NPC slaughter for the sole purpose of obtaining oddities.

Expedition and DC dilute that ratio, because both are filled with shitloads of oddities that only require picking them up. So you can see why, pre-Expedition, when subterfuge and stealth were much more significant factors in total oddity acquisition, I preferred playing Oddity only with characters who had the relevant skill set.

"B-BUT BRAINE YOU ONLY NEED 50/60/70 PIGGPOGGET!!! " Yeah, that's still too much meta-gaming bullshit for my tastes. Suck my dick and stop climbing under Styg's skirt about it just because he prefers the system he devised.

 

[Blaine]

Perhaps if you bang out enough all-caps hyperbolic sarcasm in response to my consistent analysis of actual facts complete with citations, you'll eventually convince me that a heavy systemic bias in favor of stealth, subterfuge, and even crafting skills—the bias toward the former two of which is increased when choosing Oddity—is an utterly flawless approach to game design.

Moving on to shit I actually care about, this is a cloaking device created from a q153 deflector, q157 stabilizer, and q161 plasma core with Power Management. It can operate for 164 seconds before running out of juice.

 

[Tygrende]

Tygrende

Ok, I'll bite - lets assume you went with Protectorate/Aegis, do not have lockpick/hacking/pickpocket/stealth and do not wish to turn any neutral/friendly factions hostile. Lets even go for the worst case scenario and assume the pirates remained neutral after negotiations and you do not wish to turn them hostile either. You also maintained perfect relationship with faceless and thus not killed a single one. In other words I'm making all the assumptions necessary to come up with the highest XP deficit possible in this scenario.

Foul Mouth Wash - fair enough, you're not getting it, 2 XP lost.
Aegis Badge - fair enough, 4 XP lost.
Anarchist Symbol - you will get at least a dozen of these while doing the Protectorate questline.
Black Eel Insignia - 6 XP lost.
Pipe Junction - 9 XP lost.
Boats in Bottles - 14 XP lost.
Brzozplno Nebrechega Skontam - you will get this when gassing the drones, no skills required, no neutral/friendly factions turned hostile.
Dread Controller - 17 XP lost.
Infusion Tank - 20 XP lost.
Faceless Mask Fragment - 1 study from the corpse at the Beast's Lair, 25 XP lost.
JKK Pen - 28 XP lost.
Protectorate Insignia - you will get this at Hephaestus Research. As a Free Drone you can also get this without turning any neutral/friendly factions hostile since Protectorate is hostile by default at this point, so this doesn't belong on this list at all.
Praetorian Insignia - 31 XP lost.
Protectorate Dog Tags - you get those during the Renegades quest if you don't have persuasion. But fine, lets assume a peaceful approach - 34 XP lost.
Scrapper Insignia - looted from Elwood, it's a part of the scrappers questline, no one turns hostile. But fine, you intimidated him - 36 XP lost.
Sword Handle - technically obtainable with no skills by using sound distractions, but alright, let count this one as well - 39 XP lost.
Protectorare Can - you find one at Free Drones HQ when gassing them, so only 1 study missed - 41 XP lost.
Old Money - 43 XP lost.

You also miss the tri-monitor blueprint at JKK HQ - 46 XP lost.
You also don't get 2 medals and the Cutura from the Gray Army Base if you do it peacefully - 50 XP lost.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

 

[CHEMS]

"B-BUT BRAINE YOU ONLY NEED 50/60/70 PIGGPOGGET!!!

Win win situation. Free drinks at DnD and you can un-encumber Al Fabet.

 

[Savecummer]

Tygrende

Ok, I'll bite - lets assume you went with Protectorate/Aegis, do not have lockpick/hacking/pickpocket/stealth and do not wish to turn any neutral/friendly factions hostile. Lets even go for the worst case scenario and assume the pirates remained neutral after negotiations and you do not wish to turn them hostile either. You also maintained perfect relationship with faceless and thus not killed a single one. In other words I'm making all the assumptions necessary to come up with the highest XP deficit possible in this scenario.

Foul Mouth Wash - fair enough, you're not getting it, 2 XP lost.
Aegis Badge - fair enough, 4 XP lost.
Anarchist Symbol - you will get at least a dozen of these while doing the Protectorate questline.
Black Eel Insignia - 6 XP lost.
Pipe Junction - 9 XP lost.
Boats in Bottles - 14 XP lost.
Brzozplno Nebrechega Skontam - you will get this when gassing the drones, no skills required, no neutral/friendly factions turned hostile.
Dread Controller - 17 XP lost.
Infusion Tank - 20 XP lost.
Faceless Mask Fragment - 1 study from the corpse at the Beast's Lair, 25 XP lost.
JKK Pen - 28 XP lost.
Protectorate Insignia - you will get this at Hephaestus Research. As a Free Drone you can also get this without turning any neutral/friendly factions hostile since Protectorate is hostile by default at this point, so this doesn't belong on this list at all.
Praetorian Insignia - 31 XP lost.
Protectorate Dog Tags - you get those during the Renegades quest if you don't have persuasion. But fine, lets assume a peaceful approach - 34 XP lost.
Scrapper Insignia - looted from Elwood, it's a part of the scrappers questline, no one turns hostile. But fine, you intimidated him - 36 XP lost.
Sword Handle - technically obtainable with no skills by using sound distractions, but alright, let count this one as well - 39 XP lost.
Protectorare Can - you find one at Free Drones HQ when gassing them, so only 1 study missed - 41 XP lost.
Old Money - 43 XP lost.

You also miss the tri-monitor blueprint at JKK HQ - 46 XP lost.
You also don't get 2 medals and the Cutura from the Gray Army Base if you do it peacefully - 50 XP lost.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

 

[Tigranes]

Aside from Oddity being a bit slow for my taste, it's also very meta-gamey. Rummaging through every trash can and pocket, farming some enemy until you max out its oddities, even euthanizing a faction if you lack a way to obtain a major oddity—or scrounging up every single one you can find to prepare for Depot A, for example—none of these are desirable. The two major upsides of Oddity are that it compels you to take risks in order to obtain them and rewards exploration and searching nooks and crannies, but I'd be doing that anyway.

Not to mention that after lvl 25, you need 62 oddities to get to the next level.

This is a good example of playing the game in a totally specific & unnecessary way, and then assuming that the system forces you to do so.

You can play Dom/Oddity and enjoy it just fine without farming enemies or euthanising factions. You do end up checking every corpse & container you come across, though unlike in many games where I ignore them, UR's crafting mania means you probably do so anyway.

However, it does definitely break down post-Expedition, as it really just wasn't designed for post-Veteran curve.

 

[Blaine]

In the end you lost a total of 50 XP right before taking the elevator to DC - which, assuming an otherwise thorough exploration, means you are at late lvl 28 at worst, early 29 at best. Not even a whole level behind the curve and going to hit 30 in the middle of DC at worst. I don't really see the supposed issue, especially considering just how many skill points you saved. Not a bad deal, honestly.

The thing is, you haven't pointed out any real issue with Classic, either, other than it allows players to fairly easily reach level 11-12 before Depot A—and I agree that those levels are significant, but the issue is very easily solved, since pre-Depot A is tightly hemmed in. Classic technically permits idiots to grind XP, but that's not a genuine issue, because we need not design games around the bad behavior of idiots. They can also save-scum, play on Easy, use a hex editor to give themselves a bunch of free stuff, etc.

Conceptually, Oddity does have a certain feel to it. That can't be denied. You will be progressing in part by rummaging through shelves, trash cans, boxes, and pockets, and some people actually don't like to check every point of interest. You will, in short, have to actively seek out these random curiosities and bits of rubbish. Furthermore, it is at least marginally easier to find more of them if you have subterfuge skills. I've played the game that way before, I didn't dislike it, and it was interesting, but I'm not sure I want to do it again.

I mean, for fuck's sake, you literally have to farm cave hoppers to get one of the first oddities. Don't try to pretend that there's any other legitimate reason to farm them. That (alongside stuff like taking a certain level of Pickpocket just for oddities and drinks, which is clear-cut meta-gaming based on extensive foreknowledge) is what I'm referring to when I say I have meta-gaming concerns with the Oddity system. Expedition made the cave hopper oddity accessible in another way, but only after Depot A.

Also, a few oddities I didn't mention are extremely well hidden, so despite the fact that they're technically accessible, it's likely a couple will be missed. Which is fine, I suppose. You forgot to check a corner of a hidden vent, so you'll be waiting longer to get good at shooting things.

 

[lukaszek]

monster oddities do suck indeed. One can complete beast questline and not have full set of blades for example

but then you will reach max lvl anyway