Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Ol' Willy]

Ok gentlemen, I wanna feel the new psi, here's my rough sketch for dom/oddity. Thoughts?
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMDB...kdFCpiwr0FIWfCh2ZXJHLCt8KEw4zCneKjiAXio4kK378

Hemopsychosis + SI?

 

[jackofshadows]

The last feat is whatever as usual. I'm not sure how tough psi management will be. But I remember using them together - it's fine.

 

[Parabalus]

They work really well together, later on you don't really have SI on all the time, Hemo lets you trigger it at will.

No Mania is pretty insane though.

 

[jackofshadows]

I think it's like dropping aimed shot - tougher early game but useless later on when you have very high crit chance all the time. Besides, I'm gonna play w/o metathermics so that shouldn't be that big of a impact like a crit fireball when it's needed.

 

[Parabalus]

I think it's like dropping aimed shot - tougher early game but useless later on when you have very high crit chance all the time. Besides, I'm gonna play w/o metathermics so that shouldn't be that big of a impact like a crit fireball when it's needed.

Crit AoE NO?

Better drop Psychostatic instead.

 

[jackofshadows]

Crit AoE NO?

Better drop Psychostatic instead.

Well, I have very few AoE abilities. But yeah I think I'll drop Psychostatic in any case - too many crit chance. Is squeezing future orientation worth it?

 

[Sykar]

I think it's like dropping aimed shot - tougher early game but useless later on when you have very high crit chance all the time. Besides, I'm gonna play w/o metathermics so that shouldn't be that big of a impact like a crit fireball when it's needed.

Mania lets you ease up on the crit gearing giving you more options, it is also a god send early and mid game. You will not reach 90%+ crit chance until late game.

 

[Tygrende]

I think it's like dropping aimed shot - tougher early game but useless later on when you have very high crit chance all the time. Besides, I'm gonna play w/o metathermics so that shouldn't be that big of a impact like a crit fireball when it's needed.

Yeah, it's exactly like dropping aimed shot. On a sniper build.

 

[Fenix]

I dont quite understand how quality in crafting works.

Dude, put in the SHORT barrel. Long one is a hoax. That's how it all works.

I dislike combat shotties. The burst is not worth it, imo.

Try to do Beast figth without them, you will die.
And Tyranny low crit damage is not important in Beast fight, as bladelings are crit-immune anyway.

Spoiler

Ok gentlemen, I wanna feel the new psi, here's my rough sketch for dom/oddity. Thoughts?
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMDB...kdFCpiwr0FIWfCh2ZXJHLCt8KEw4zCneKjiAXio4kK378

Wrong build. You made same mistake as I am. Hemopsychosis+SI is usless. It's either you take HP, or SI with a bunch of tanky feats, that allow you to take a really low damage if you got hit - like Stoicism, Conditioning, and specialize in them to the boot.

 

[Parabalus]

Try to do Beast figth without them, you will die.
And Tyranny low crit damage is not important in Beast fight, as bladelings are crit-immune anyway.

If you have Guns don't use a shotgun for the beast fight, much easier with Energy or Chemical pistols.

 

[CHEMS]

Try to do Beast figth without them, you will die.
And Tyranny low crit damage is not important in Beast fight, as bladelings are crit-immune anyway.

Did several times, without recruiting the guards. Gas grenades + trainshot make it easy.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Did several times, without recruiting the guards. Gas grenades + trainshot make it easy.

On Hard, I did it alone with AR. Without any traps. Without any gas or incendiary grenades. With regular ammo. AR is this overpowered

 

[Sykar]

Did several times, without recruiting the guards. Gas grenades + trainshot make it easy.

On Hard, I did it alone with AR. Without any traps. Without any gas or incendiary grenades. With regular ammo. AR is this overpowered

Time to give it the Psionic treatment!

 

[Ol' Willy]

Time to give it the Psionic treatment!

I was already annoyed to a great degree by repair mechanics while using it.

For example, I had two rifles with ~2500 durability each; after that fight both were down to lower than 500. Since I played without trader refresh, getting much W2C ammo was a hassle as well so I used mostly regular

 

[Whisper]

obtaining that belt is not deterministic?

The ladder is always there, don't worry your deterministic head.

The catches are it's only there on DOM, it might spawn literally anywhere on the 1st sewer map and it's a timed event, if you enter the ladder you have 20 hours until the guys are gone, so better not enter until you're ready.

What else drops there except the belt?

 

[Tygrende]

Time to give it the Psionic treatment!

I agree. It is time to give ARs a "long term resource" that requires a specific but rather common consumable to replenish, but cannot be replenished in the middle of a fight, in addition to the "short term resource" that is used on a regular basis in combat. It is also time to severly limit their ability to do everything from dealing damage through tanking to crowd control all at the same time with no other support skills/feats/equipment required to fill the other roles. They should also require at least slight investment in a stat other than their primary one to get the most out of them, lets say something around 7 at least, maybe 8.

Wait a second...

 

[Sykar]

Time to give it the Psionic treatment!

I agree. It is time to give ARs a "long term resource" that requires a specific but rather common consumable to replenish, but cannot be replenished in the middle of a fight, in addition to the "short term resource" that is used on a regular basis in combat. It is also time to severly limit their ability to do everything from dealing damage through tanking to crowd control all at the same time with no other support skills/feats/equipment required to fill the other roles. They should also require at least slight investment in a stat other than their primary one to get the most out of them, lets say something around 7 at least, maybe 8.

Wait a second...

Tanking? On a PSI build? Oh wait do not tell me you mean Stasis? You cannot be seriously that retarded?
You can get everything you mentioned with throwing and it does not even need more than 3 dex and some points in throwing but sure keep telling yourself that the most brain dead build that also deals the most AoE damage with the only real drawback being that you have to be concerned about degration.
Oh you need more than two stats? Wait second, last time I checked 99.9% of Psychosis PSI needed 9 con for SI. Oh wait what is that, you do not need max PER for AR to deal ridiculous damage and have an easy time to pump other stats? Wait you cannot dump Int below 6 because of Premed? But yeah PSI "only need one stat but AR needs more DERP!"
Meanwhile every single time you "switch ammo" now you lose ALL your ammo, also you have to manually load every single bullet, then smoke for ten whopping seconds just to be "ready". What a great and engaging system! Must be the reason why most builds go for single school and throwing so they can have the same loadout all game long so they do not have to waste too much time with this retarded Vancian system. Never mind that now all niche PSI abilities are completely and utterly worthless because even with 12 int and PSI head band slot you still do not get enough slots to justify the opportunity cost memorizing them.
Yeah try a little harder to piss on my leg and tell me it is raining, dumbfuck.

 

[Tygrende]

Tanking? On a PSI build? Oh wait do not tell me you mean Stasis? You cannot be seriously that retarded?

You're right, I was wrong.
Psi has absolutelyPseudo-Spatial ProjectionnoForce FieldabilitiesCryo-ShieldthatPrecognitionimproveExothermic Aurasurvivalability and hinderDisruptive Fieldthe enemy's ability to damage the player.

You can get everything you mentioned with throwing

You mean ARs need a secondary skill to make up for their inabilty to do anything other than deal damage, which they are admittedly good at? That sounds a lot like old psi to me, for sure.

Oh you need more than two stats? Wait second, last time I checked 99.9% of Psychosis PSI needed 9 con for SI.

Wait a second, last I checked psychosis builds didn't actually need SI at all, because for a lot of them psychosis was merely an uncomfortable requirement for mania. Wait another, last time I checked 100% of builds aiming for max crit chance wanted 9 con for SI. Even, you guessed it, ARs!

Oh wait what is that, you do not need max PER for AR to deal ridiculous damage and have an easy time to pump other stats? Wait you cannot dump Int below 6 because of Premed? But yeah PSI "only need one stat but AR needs more DERP!"

Oh wait what is that, you do not need to max WIL for psi to deal ridiculous damage and easier time pumping other stats? Wait you cannot dump STR below 7 because of Full Auto? But yeah ARs "only need one stat but psi needs more DERP!"

Meanwhile every single time you "switch ammo" now you lose ALL your ammo, also you have to manually load every single bullet!

Having to replenish the long term resource to change psi loadouts is indeed one difference between it and ARs. I propose a compromise that also takes care of the other difference - psi now doesn't have to smoke weed to change loadouts, but it now has to buy/craft very expenisve and very rare "green boosters" and use them each time they want to do anything to armor and somewhat common and somewhat expensive "red boosters" if they wish to deal more damage to unarmored enemies. I am sure if this was an actual change to psi you wouldn't be crying like you do now.

Must be the reason why most builds go for single school and throwing so they can have the same loadout all game long so they do not have to waste too much time with the retarded Vancian system. Never mind that now all niche PSI abilities are completely and utterly worthless because even with 12 in and PSI head band slot you still do not get enough slots to justify the opportunity cost.

Damn, it's no longer optimal for all psi builds to be pure psi builds with 4 schools? Psi now has to make choices between going from anywhere between 1 to 4 schools? Choosing support skills and actually has the concept of "opportunity cost" applied to it? That's terrible!

then smoke for ten whopping seconds just to be "ready".

I can tell you have a lot of experience playing with the new psi system, since you managed to somehow obtain 1500 reserves to require full 10 seconds of smoking weed. This makes me trust your judgment on this new system even more.

 

[Sykar]

Tanking? On a PSI build? Oh wait do not tell me you mean Stasis? You cannot be seriously that retarded?

You're right, I was wrong.
Psi has absolutelyPseudo-Spatial ProjectionnoForce FieldabilitiesCryo-ShieldthatPrecognitionimproveExothermic Aurasurvivalability and hinderDisruptive Fieldthe enemy's ability to damage the player.

You can get everything you mentioned with throwing

You mean ARs need a secondary skill to make up for their inabilty to do anything other than deal damage, which they are admittedly good at? That sounds a lot like old psi to me, for sure.

Oh you need more than two stats? Wait second, last time I checked 99.9% of Psychosis PSI needed 9 con for SI.

Wait a second, last I checked psychosis builds didn't actually need SI at all, because for a lot of them psychosis was merely an uncomfortable requirement for mania. Wait another, last time I checked 100% of builds aiming for max crit chance wanted 9 con for SI. Even, you guessed it, ARs!

Oh wait what is that, you do not need max PER for AR to deal ridiculous damage and have an easy time to pump other stats? Wait you cannot dump Int below 6 because of Premed? But yeah PSI "only need one stat but AR needs more DERP!"

Oh wait what is that, you do not need to max WIL for psi to deal ridiculous damage and easier time pumping other stats? Wait you cannot dump STR below 7 because of Full Auto? But yeah ARs "only need one stat but psi needs more DERP!"

Meanwhile every single time you "switch ammo" now you lose ALL your ammo, also you have to manually load every single bullet!

Having to replenish the long term resource to change psi loadouts is indeed one difference between it and ARs. I propose a compromise that also takes care of the other difference - psi now doesn't have to smoke weed to change loadouts, but it now has to buy/craft very expenisve and very rare "green boosters" and use them each time they want to do anything to armor and somewhat common and somewhat expensive "red boosters" if they wish to deal more damage to unarmored enemies. I am sure if this was an actual change to psi you wouldn't be crying like you do now.

Must be the reason why most builds go for single school and throwing so they can have the same loadout all game long so they do not have to waste too much time with the retarded Vancian system. Never mind that now all niche PSI abilities are completely and utterly worthless because even with 12 in and PSI head band slot you still do not get enough slots to justify the opportunity cost.

Damn, it's no longer optimal for all psi builds to be pure psi builds with 4 schools? Psi now has to make choices between going from anywhere between 1 to 4 schools? Choosing support skills and actually has the concept of "opportunity cost" applied to it? That's terrible!

then smoke for ten whopping seconds just to be "ready".

I can tell you have a lot of experience playing with the new psi system, since you managed to somehow obtain 1500 reserves to require full 10 seconds of smoking weed. This makes me trust your judgment on this new system even more.

Pseudospatial does nothing against mechanicals, barely surivives a single burst and only really is good against slow hard hitting enemies. It certainly does not help to tank, so as usual you expose yourself of being a retard. Precognition, are you serious? Which PSI build apart from Sheepherders pure TM build has Dodge and Evasion? Not a single one. Precog is almost exlusive used on hybrids who use TM, if at all since the common consensus is that on Dominating Evasion and Dodge are too steep of an investvemt for mediocre returns. Force field? Hardly worth the 40 base PSI cost consdering that most late game enemies can break through in less than a round or any larger group of early game enemies and against enemies that cannot break through in under 2-3 rounds it is useless since you usually can kill those in one round anyway. If FF breaks while other enemies can still reach you you have a good chance of dying or did you miss the giant NERF to FF where it is not immune to damage anymore? Exothermic? Are you serious? What exactly is it tanking? Are you running in freezing gas 24/7? Disuptive Field? A single target ability that is useful once in a blue moon against a single ranged enemy? Wow man you are right why did I not see it before, PSI can and could just rund around naked without ANY gear and tank 24/7!
Edit: Forgot Cry Shield, which works only against melee and only 50% of the time preventing noticable but not overhwelmingly much damage until late game and the mentor is totally not in a retarded location! And of course costs no PSI and has no CD!
Oh yeah and of course you are always running around with ALL these abilities slotted and used, they have no CD and cost no PSI because you know you PSI is just OP and tanks everything easily. Wait, that did not happen before and certainly does not happen now since every single defensive ablity slotted is one less offensive/CC less and every defensive ability used is less damage/CC per AP and PSI point but sure pretend like this shit are basically passives that have no opportunity costs.
ARs do not even remotely need SI. In fact overall SI ARs do worse unless you can guarantee that you are close to DR/DT cap which wont happen until late game but sure tell me more BS about the game.
Oh noes AR needs a secondary skill? My PSI just needs one skill! Wait what was that there are 4 schools and usually you took all and usually max 3 and have TM at 70? Yeah man SO hard to fit in a secondary skill on AR compared to PSI, the sheer horror! You could not even just put a few spare points into traps and still have vastly more points left over than full PSI. Oh wait a second you actually do my bad.. no wait you still are a retard who is talking out of his rear.
Oh yeah more whining about crafting bohoo there are drawbacks of having the most brain dead highest damage build in the entire game. Here I have a better idea, why not remove the retarded Vancian system and PSI reserve and now we start with PSI booster restoring less and cost more to create, but hey, it is SO much better now with all the moronic tedium! And if crafting ammo and repair kits bother you so much, why not advocate for less degredation and merchants having more and cheaper bullets to reduce tedium? But no instead it is better to make PSI brain dead and introduce MORE tedium even though you complain about tedium. Are you stupid or just outright brain dead?
You want to give ME advice on PSI when it is obvious you have little clue about what you are talking about? Oh wow you try to make a "gotcha!" moment from my totally not obviously hyperbolic statement about smoking for 10 seconds. Why is anyone taking a complete and utter dumbfuck like you seriously?

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Meanwhile every single time you "switch ammo" now you lose ALL your ammo, also you have to manually load every single bullet, then smoke for ten whopping seconds just to be "ready".

Sounds like a good deal if guns also get the infinite durability that psi gets. Needing to spam repair kits on burst guns is fucking terrible.

ARs already had their massive nerf back when smart module/goggles stopped working on bursts, anyway. Damage cut in half just like that. Tragic.

 

[Sykar]

Meanwhile every single time you "switch ammo" now you lose ALL your ammo, also you have to manually load every single bullet, then smoke for ten whopping seconds just to be "ready".

Sounds like a good deal if guns also get the infinite durability that psi gets. Needing to spam repair kits on burst guns is fucking terrible.

ARs already had their massive nerf back when smart module/goggles stopped working on bursts, anyway. Damage cut in half just like that. Tragic.

Totally ridonculous damage without any CD now toned down to just ridiculous damage, so sad! Wait so instead of asking for less tedium on AR builds you want MORE tedium for other builds. Man you and Tygrende are such geniuses. Your half sized excuse for a brain cell must be working overtime now.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Totally ridonculous damage without any CD now toned down to just ridiculous damage, so sad! Wait so instead of asking for less tedium on AR builds you want MORE tedium for other builds.

Actually I just hate durability and wanted to take this opportunity to bitch about it, thanks.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Pseudospatial does nothing against mechanicals, barely surivives a single burst and only really is good against slow hard hitting enemies. It certainly does not help to tank

PSP is really useful against snipers, crossbowmen, laser guys and various spitters. I was storming native beaches on a junk jet solely because of PSP: put it on, get close, it tanks crossbows and turrets while I cull more and more natives. Overall, against natives PSP was a godsend. It was extremely useful in DC Labyrinth against worms where I just tanked their spits while having ~100 HP in total.
Disruptive field is trash, true; switching off one enemy barely helps.

 

[Sykar]

Pseudospatial does nothing against mechanicals, barely surivives a single burst and only really is good against slow hard hitting enemies. It certainly does not help to tank

PSP is really useful against snipers, crossbowmen, laser guys and various spitters. I was storming native beaches on a junk jet solely because of PSP: put it on, get close, it tanks crossbows and turrets while I cull more and more natives. Overall, against natives PSP was a godsend. It was extremely useful in DC Labyrinth against worms where I just tanked their spits while having ~100 HP in total.
Disruptive field is trash, true; switching off one enemy barely helps.

Which part of "slow hard hitting opponents" did you miss reading or did you not understand? Did I say it is entirely useless? No I outlined its severe limitiations which is why it does not turn you into a tank because so many enemies either ignore it completely or burn through those at best 10 images in one round and it has a 8 turn CD.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Disruptive field is trash, true; switching off one enemy barely helps.

I like disruptive just because it saved me from jet eater auto critting me to death with ambush.
On that note, Styg is a fucking dick for giving jet eater ambush. First you bullshit me by giving my jet ski a light source I can't turn off, then you make it worse by giving a boss ambush to take advantage of it? Come on.