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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I didn't do a proper experiment, but once I got it I went and shot a random bum repeatedly from melee vs non-mele. I was seeing like double the damage from melee. But like I said, it was not a proper systematic experiment, I was just trying to quickly determine whether I would keep Gun Fu or reload to take something else. I fucking kept it.

Naturally, it was a Versatility Melee-->Guns build.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,504
You're supposed to gain the bonus at melee range

Yes, I know that. I do not know how to calculate the bonus. But I saw a huge difference in damage once I got it and used it.
Huh, they've changed it I guess coz when I did the math last time it was only 20-25% tops dmg bonus in melee. Now it seems much higher than that. And still, kinda meh considering the melee requirement. But cool in a way that it can actually turn mobile char into melee with gun like it perhaps was conceived initially.

Gun Fu seems to be made with especially versatility builds in mind. They naturally have high melee, so it's a win-win situation.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
You'll be spamming burst at close range anyway. Never tried gun-fu on pistol builds though. Seems like a waste of feat.

I tried Gun Fu on my 0.44 pistol build, and it made a huge difference. I do not understand what it does exactly, so I cannot break down the math, but in practice it is really good for pistols.

You're supposed to gain the bonus at melee range and i don't like getting that close to enemies in a non melee build.

On other note: i don't know if crits are bugged or if RNG Jesus is fucking with me. I'm on level 29, close to 30 on my metathermics crit xbow build. When i was at 55% base crit chance, i would get a LOT of crits. Now that i'm at 95% (with bonuses) i feel like i'm getting one crit out of ten shots. I attacked Fort Apogee with 95% crit chance and barely scored one. I'll take Scrutinous as my last feat and see if i'll actually crit 100% of the time.
Keep in mind enemies can have crits received reduction, which metal helmets have and almost everyone at Apogee is wearing one. Granted, the reduction is just a couple %, but it's enough to stop 100% crit chance from being a gurantee.
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,504
You'll be spamming burst at close range anyway. Never tried gun-fu on pistol builds though. Seems like a waste of feat.

I tried Gun Fu on my 0.44 pistol build, and it made a huge difference. I do not understand what it does exactly, so I cannot break down the math, but in practice it is really good for pistols.

You're supposed to gain the bonus at melee range and i don't like getting that close to enemies in a non melee build.

On other note: i don't know if crits are bugged or if RNG Jesus is fucking with me. I'm on level 29, close to 30 on my metathermics crit xbow build. When i was at 55% base crit chance, i would get a LOT of crits. Now that i'm at 95% (with bonuses) i feel like i'm getting one crit out of ten shots. I attacked Fort Apogee with 95% crit chance and barely scored one. I'll take Scrutinous as my last feat and see if i'll actually crit 100% of the time.
Keep in mind enemies can have crits received reduction, which metal helmets have and almost everyone at Apogee is wearing one. Granted, the reduction is just a couple %, but it's enough to stop 100% crit chance from being a gurantee.

I had 95% crit chance back there. Of 6 bolts, 1 would crit. Not talking about the tincans, but turrets and dreadnoughts as well. Do they have crit reduction as well?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
You'll be spamming burst at close range anyway. Never tried gun-fu on pistol builds though. Seems like a waste of feat.

I tried Gun Fu on my 0.44 pistol build, and it made a huge difference. I do not understand what it does exactly, so I cannot break down the math, but in practice it is really good for pistols.

You're supposed to gain the bonus at melee range and i don't like getting that close to enemies in a non melee build.

On other note: i don't know if crits are bugged or if RNG Jesus is fucking with me. I'm on level 29, close to 30 on my metathermics crit xbow build. When i was at 55% base crit chance, i would get a LOT of crits. Now that i'm at 95% (with bonuses) i feel like i'm getting one crit out of ten shots. I attacked Fort Apogee with 95% crit chance and barely scored one. I'll take Scrutinous as my last feat and see if i'll actually crit 100% of the time.
Keep in mind enemies can have crits received reduction, which metal helmets have and almost everyone at Apogee is wearing one. Granted, the reduction is just a couple %, but it's enough to stop 100% crit chance from being a gurantee.

I had 95% crit chance back there. Of 6 bolts, 1 would crit. Not talking about the tincans, but turrets and dreadnoughts as well. Do they have crit reduction as well?
Oh you only mean dreads and turrets? I noticed the same thing since the last update. Crowbar only critted them about, I dunno, maybe 30-40% of the time despite having 80% crit chance. All other enemies, it was about 80% as it should be. I think they got some huge crit reduction.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,620
You're supposed to gain the bonus at melee range

Yes, I know that. I do not know how to calculate the bonus. But I saw a huge difference in damage once I got it and used it.
Huh, they've changed it I guess coz when I did the math last time it was only 20-25% tops dmg bonus in melee. Now it seems much higher than that. And still, kinda meh considering the melee requirement. But cool in a way that it can actually turn mobile char into melee with gun like it perhaps was conceived initially.

Gun Fu seems to be made with especially versatility builds in mind. They naturally have high melee, so it's a win-win situation.
gun fu spec points seem to be better than versatility(5% vs 2%), although there are only 4 levels.. although on second reading versatility is effective value, while gun fu is unmodded(I assume this means raw?)
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
It makes sense that Gun Fu specialization has a bigger bonus than Versatility specialization, because Versatility always works while Gun Fu is situational (ie, only in melee range).

I *THINK* that the Gun Fu effect is multiplied when calculating the effective values of your attack, although I am not entirely sure. So you get a bonus on your invested points, but then the invested points are multiplied with a number >1 to get the effective points. So, if I am right, the actual/effective Gun Fu bonuses are bigger than what shown in the descriptions.


EDIT: I am talking about Versatility builds, again.
 
Last edited:

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,620
should I decide to replay, anyone got cool dominating gun fu build to share? Want a base to start with, never played ballistic rly. Want to stab too, I think willy had it(cant recall nick properly to tag)
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
For a Gun Fu build, I do not think there is much point in taking melee feats, since the whole point of Gun Fu is that in melee range you will be using your pistol.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,620
For a Gun Fu build, I do not think there is much point in taking melee feats, since the whole point of Gun Fu is that in melee range you will be using your pistol.
yeah... with energy pistols synergies were stronger
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How much more movement points do Armored Boots with boot springs give compared to Ninja Tabis? I'm wondering whether or not the -1 to melee attack AP would be worth using Tabi's for my Heavy Armor Metathermic Sledgehammerer.
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,205
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
How much more movement points do Armored Boots with boot springs give compared to Ninja Tabis? I'm wondering whether or not the -1 to melee attack AP would be worth using Tabi's for my Heavy Armor Metathermic Sledgehammerer.

Slightly more.

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Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,205
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
I'm starting to see normie's perspective on how there are too few items inside locked containers. It's always the unlocked container that has the more valuable goodies. This changes a bit in the endgame, but still. OTOH, filling dodge/evasion while not dropping these two is just not feasible, even when skipping most crafting types and throwing. My level 9 character had barely any skill points allocated into Mechanics due to the evasion expenditure.

Removing lockpick/hacking points just feels so wrong. I'm not sure if I can do it.

Worse, playing an evasive glass cannon before Depot A just isn't feasible. On DOM enemies have insane natural THC even when maxing oven dodging with 10 AG.

Playing a hammer dude is pretty boring to be honest. Sword OTOH has at least three early sources of stun: psychic fist, taser and dirty kick. Just don't ever bother with swords unless you can reliably stun each enemy. I'm surprised at early-game damage output. Once Flurry procs once, I can kill a big rathound in a single turn at level 5.
 
Last edited:

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
How much more movement points do Armored Boots with boot springs give compared to Ninja Tabis? I'm wondering whether or not the -1 to melee attack AP would be worth using Tabi's for my Heavy Armor Metathermic Sledgehammerer.
Visibly more, hopper boots with high quality springs are the ultimate sanic footwear, but the MP is subject to reduction from armor penalty. So if you're going 95%, you won't notice the MP anyways. That said hammers only really benefit from tabi AP reduction on tichrome, so metal boots are still the way to go otherwise.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How much more movement points do Armored Boots with boot springs give compared to Ninja Tabis? I'm wondering whether or not the -1 to melee attack AP would be worth using Tabi's for my Heavy Armor Metathermic Sledgehammerer.
Visibly more, hopper boots with high quality springs are the ultimate sanic footwear, but the MP is subject to reduction from armor penalty. So if you're going 95%, you won't notice the MP anyways. That said hammers only really benefit from tabi AP reduction on tichrome, so metal boots are still the way to go otherwise.
So here's my question then. If I wanted to maximize damage protection while also not being totally cucked with no movement points, what would be the best setup for that? What metal should I use? Is armor sloping worth it? What if I just rock metal armor with some Tabi's/Leather Boot Springs, and a Psionic Headband? I want to be able to tank some reasonable after 18 or 20. Also, my char currently has 7 Constitution, is that enough Con for a tanky build? Any suggestions welcome since I've never done a heavy armor build before.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
So here's my question then. If I wanted to maximize damage protection while also not being totally cucked with no movement points, what would be the best setup for that? What metal should I use? Is armor sloping worth it? What if I just rock metal armor with some Tabi's/Leather Boot Springs, and a Psionic Headband? I want to be able to tank some reasonable after 18 or 20. Also, my char currently has 7 Constitution, is that enough Con for a tanky build? Any suggestions welcome since I've never done a heavy armor build before.
If you want absolute max protection with short periods of decent mobility, full 95% armor penalty tungsten set with sprint, contraction and jumping bean is the way to go. Sprint is 30 MP, contraction is another 30 and jumping bean is 10, all unaffected by armor. You can trigger each as needed or combine them for 3 turns of 70 MP. Don't bother with sloping or nimble in this case, you will be way over 95% anyways.

You can also do what is commonly known as a nimble can - super steel armor with sloping, nimble and optionally body weight training if you have the STR for it. That's somewhat tanky at only 14% AP with just the metal armor. 4% with body weight.

7 is kinda low for an actual tank, I'd say 9-10 is the go-to. But if you compensate with pig/bison tabis, have the WIL for stoicism, take other tank feats like juggernaut/conditioning, it will work fine, if not optimally.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So here's my question then. If I wanted to maximize damage protection while also not being totally cucked with no movement points, what would be the best setup for that? What metal should I use? Is armor sloping worth it? What if I just rock metal armor with some Tabi's/Leather Boot Springs, and a Psionic Headband? I want to be able to tank some reasonable after 18 or 20. Also, my char currently has 7 Constitution, is that enough Con for a tanky build? Any suggestions welcome since I've never done a heavy armor build before.
If you want absolute max protection with short periods of decent mobility, full 95% armor penalty tungsten set with sprint, contraction and jumping bean is the way to go. Sprint is 30 MP, contraction is another 30 and jumping bean is 10, all unaffected by armor. You can trigger each as needed or combine them for 3 turns of 70 MP. Don't bother with sloping or nimble in this case, you will be way over 95% anyways.

You can also do what is commonly known as a nimble can - super steel armor with sloping, nimble and optionally body weight training if you have the STR for it. That's somewhat tanky at only 14% AP with just the metal armor. 4% with body weight.

7 is kinda low for an actual tank, I'd say 9-10 is the go-to. But if you compensate with pig/bison tabis, have the WIL for stoicism, take other tank feats like juggernaut/conditioning, it will work fine, if not optimally.
I wouldn't mind pumping 2 stat points into Con, but my next question would be whether or not 13-14 strength before Veteran feats would be enough for my Sledgehammer to do decent enough damage in the late game. And thanks for the info on Nimble Can, never heard of it before and it actually sounds great. That being said, I have 3 Agility. Still think the amount of MP I'd get from Striders/Tabi's would be worth it?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
So here's my question then. If I wanted to maximize damage protection while also not being totally cucked with no movement points, what would be the best setup for that? What metal should I use? Is armor sloping worth it? What if I just rock metal armor with some Tabi's/Leather Boot Springs, and a Psionic Headband? I want to be able to tank some reasonable after 18 or 20. Also, my char currently has 7 Constitution, is that enough Con for a tanky build? Any suggestions welcome since I've never done a heavy armor build before.
If you want absolute max protection with short periods of decent mobility, full 95% armor penalty tungsten set with sprint, contraction and jumping bean is the way to go. Sprint is 30 MP, contraction is another 30 and jumping bean is 10, all unaffected by armor. You can trigger each as needed or combine them for 3 turns of 70 MP. Don't bother with sloping or nimble in this case, you will be way over 95% anyways.

You can also do what is commonly known as a nimble can - super steel armor with sloping, nimble and optionally body weight training if you have the STR for it. That's somewhat tanky at only 14% AP with just the metal armor. 4% with body weight.

7 is kinda low for an actual tank, I'd say 9-10 is the go-to. But if you compensate with pig/bison tabis, have the WIL for stoicism, take other tank feats like juggernaut/conditioning, it will work fine, if not optimally.
I wouldn't mind pumping 2 stat points into Con, but my next question would be whether or not 13-14 strength before Veteran feats would be enough for my Sledgehammer to do decent enough damage in the late game. And thanks for the info on Nimble Can, never heard of it before and it actually sounds great. That being said, I have 3 Agility. Still think the amount of MP I'd get from Striders/Tabi's would be worth it?
13-14 STR should be fine, it's easy to boost. 1 point from bison milk/slampipe which are best hammer foods, 2 from adrenaline or 4 from tribal coke, also 2 from supersoldier drug. So you can almost always be at 14-15, 16-17 on adrenaline, 18-19 on ssd if you really need it for the toughest fights. Don't even strictly need the STR feat. You won't be using Balor's though, regular hammers only in that case.

3 AGI hurts because no sprint and sprint is amazing in general, but you can live without it. Tabis/striders on nimble can are worth it, on 95% tungsten they do next to nothing.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I got a random event near Foundry with a bunch of dead bodies around a closed box. The box required 135 Hacking, but it was early midgame, and I was nowhere near. As usual with random events, later everything was gone.

Has anybody ever opened that box? Is there anything of note in it? I would not be surprised if the developers are just trolling, but who knows, maybe an awesome energy shield is in there or sth.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
I got a random event near Foundry with a bunch of dead bodies around a closed box. The box required 135 Hacking, but it was early midgame, and I was nowhere near. As usual with random events, later everything was gone.

Has anybody ever opened that box? Is there anything of note in it? I would not be surprised if the developers are just trolling, but who knows, maybe an awesome energy shield is in there or sth.
A lifetime supply of flares.
 

Mac_Orion

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
113
Location
Styg's garret
Styg

How is development on UR: Infusion coming along?

Do you have any tentative dates for like alpha build or beta builds?

On infusion is being worked every day, it's coming along.
But don't expect it soon, neither alpha or beta builds, there are a lot of changes on the engine that it will take time until we have something concrete to show.
It's not our style to hype with features in games and than not having anything good to show in the end. caught caught cyberpunk caught caught
 

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