Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Jason Liang]

Any game is easy if you know how to powergame duh

True. But then, 99% of discussion of Underrail is builds, not actual tactics (just like Age of Decadence), so a) who wouldn't know that Cheap Shots and Critical Power are absurd and b) the game played normally is actually tactically shallow and doesn't provide enough challenge to force one to figure out real tactics beyond basic dumbshit.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Any game is easy if you know how to powergame duh

True. But then, 99% of discussion of Underrail is builds, not actual tactics (just like Age of Decadence), so a) who wouldn't know that Cheap Shots and Critical Power are absurd and b) the game played normally is actually tactically shallow and doesn't provide enough challenge to force one to figure out real tactics beyond basic dumbshit.

If you say that there is no actual tactics in Underrail, well, then I don't know where is

 

[Jason Liang]

Any game is easy if you know how to powergame duh

True. But then, 99% of discussion of Underrail is builds, not actual tactics (just like Age of Decadence), so a) who wouldn't know that Cheap Shots and Critical Power are absurd and b) the game played normally is actually tactically shallow and doesn't provide enough challenge to force one to figure out real tactics beyond basic dumbshit.

If you say that there is no actual tactics in Underrail, well, then I don't know where is

Clear Lunatic Mall at level 8. That's actual tactics. Well, not quite but almost. Even at level 8 you're using ridiculous stuff like Molotovs or if you were actually powergaming those toxic gas grenades. But otherwise it does force you to figure out some real tactics to not just instantly die on the 2nd floor. I wont spoil it for you in case you want to experience it yourself.

In games like Underrail and Age of Decadence (single character, AP turn based, no cover mechanics), actual tactics really comes down to situations where you need to figure out exactly where to be at the end of every turn to not die, and figuring out the exact order your enemies need to die by when and how. For example, if I asked you: to clear Lunatic Mall on level 8, who needs to die first (immediately), Frost, Vanga or Firecracker, and who do you save for last? You probably don't know since you don't need to figure it out when you are OP and it doesn't matter, but you *do* need to figure it out, by trial and error, to do it on level 8 and it does matter a lot. That's actual tactics.

Like, clearing the Ironheads doesn't really take real tactics since if you are careful they should never manage to hit you. Killing Balor required a little bit of figuring out but Balor himself was just a punter to Enrage so 90% was not actual tactics.

This is not actual tactics.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The game has bad tactics, except using hit and run, burst damage, and crowd control..... um.... tactics?

I just went from depot to core city and only gained a couple levels on oddity, whereas on classic I definitely jumped a lot higher. I am avoiding the iron heads this time though. If you explore thoroughly and do side content, you gain levels. Welcome to RPGs I guess?

I agree that the difficulty levels off post depot. Clearly the decision was made to position the pre tchort content as generally accessible in a non linear fashion, so the overall challenge is a bit static. This is also why everyone says "this build gets strong by level 14" yeah uh huh, all builds are strong just by maxing out a single weapon skill. That's when the numbers really tilt in your advantage.

But you're just splitting the tiniest of hairs here. Like when someone claims difficulty is "fake." Difficulty is difficulty, regardless of source. Likewise Underrail requires some active tactics you win, you can't just facetank the whole game or mindlessly click and gobble loot.

 

[Sheepherder]

Any game is easy if you know how to powergame duh

True. But then, 99% of discussion of Underrail is builds, not actual tactics (just like Age of Decadence), so a) who wouldn't know that Cheap Shots and Critical Power are absurd and b) the game played normally is actually tactically shallow and doesn't provide enough challenge to force one to figure out real tactics beyond basic dumbshit.

If you say that there is no actual tactics in Underrail, well, then I don't know where is

Clear Lunatic Mall at level 8. That's actual tactics. Well, not quite but almost. Even at level 8 you're using ridiculous stuff like Molotovs or if you were actually powergaming those toxic gas grenades. But otherwise it does force you to figure out some real tactics to not just instantly die on the 2nd floor. I wont spoil it for you in case you want to experience it yourself.

In games like Underrail and Age of Decadence (single character, AP turn based, no cover mechanics), actual tactics really comes down to situations where you need to figure out exactly where to be at the end of every turn to not die, and figuring out the exact order your enemies need to die by when and how. For example, if I asked you: to clear Lunatic Mall on level 8, who needs to die first (immediately), Frost, Vanga or Firecracker, and who do you save for last? You probably don't know since you don't need to figure it out when you are OP and it doesn't matter, but you *do* need to figure it out, by trial and error, to do it on level 8 and it does matter a lot. That's actual tactics.

Like, clearing the Ironheads doesn't really take real tactics since if you are careful they should never manage to hit you. Killing Balor required a little bit of figuring out but Balor himself was just a punter to Enrage so 90% was not actual tactics.

This is not actual tactics.

Lunatic Mall is a bad example of tactical gameplay imo, due to the map. You start the first map with a 1 tile wide chokepoint with a door AND a total LoS break, it's extremelly easy to control that and just pick enemies off with ranged damage even at low levels. Second floor has the pharmacy, again a 1 tile wide chokepoint, a door and a LoS break, but it's a bit further away. A melee char would have a harder time of course.

At level 8 a char realistically can have these disables to perma-control an enemy in a chokepoint:

• stuns: from DK, tazer or PK. DK can miss, but is supposedly irresistible, not very good at low lvl due to miss chance. Tazer can't miss, but may be resisted, chance is low tho, gos through PSP. PK (fist and electrokinesis) are I think both irresistible and neither can miss. I ussually get by with a tazer just fine. All of these require minimal skillpoint investment and no stat requirements.
• incap: flashbangs. a bit risky due to friendly fire. Needs some throwing, but that's it.
• immobilization: net and cryokinesis. Nets can miss but in fights like these I throw them on last turn of incap from flashbang so a 95% chance to apply a 2 turn immobilization. cryokinesis is cryokinesis lol. 35 in MT and some throwing. There's also the new PK immobilization.

With these, I can have a rotation, where I can continuously chain disables and have contingencies, making maps with 1 tile wide chokepoints more routine then tactics. So Lunatic mall, Grey Army, maybe Apogee store map to an extent etc.

A better example of tactics in Underrail would be maps with no or few chokepoints and unreliable LoS breaks. So maps like Port Zenith - if you attack if from ground, FC after killing bigT, Epione Lab - if you do a frontal attack, SRO assault - if you do a frontal assault without revealing the spy first. In these maps you have to constantly keep track of loose groups of enemies, you are unable to funnel them, can't reliably hide behind LoS breaks for long periods of time, or lock enemies all down at once with CC as they are scattered.

 

[Sratopotator]

actual tactics

Just wondering - what actions would you consider as "actual tactics" in a single character game? (with or without cover mechanics, shouldn't matter that much)
If you cannot think of anything particular, as single character games are relatively simple, then why the shitting on UR and AoD specifically? Just say that squad based TB games are superior, and your point will be clear.

Or, is this only about not being FORCED to act tactically, due to having a powerful build and an overabundance of OP tools? Granted, I'm saying this from limited experience (few restarts and I'm almost wrapping up my first playthrough), but it seems to be the case only if you use certain builds, know where to look for OP stuff and synergize all that with careful positioning and scouting/metaknowledge. Still quite a lot of tactical behavior.

Having a bunch of opportunities to cheese through the game, while having a theoretically unlimited source of cheese material is not the same as saying that the game doesn't need actual tactics (it may not need a tactical approach if you make specific choices). You can even optimize your build towards cheese exploitation, if you want. Or optimize towards an effective, but boring methodical approach. Or embrace the chaos with lower effectiveness builds. Seems like a proper RPG system to me.

I grant you this - the game does kinda funnel the player into playing through the same effective and comfortable tactics. Obviously, the more you specialize, as most players probably do, the more you are "funneled" into a certain set of actions (excluding stuff available to all characters), if you want to have the edge.
So I can see how you get the impression of UR "not having actual tactics", but it sounds like a strawman.

clearing the Ironheads doesn't really take real tactics since if you are careful

If you are actively careful, and you have tools specifically selected to synergize with your approach, all to achieve a goal, isn't this "tactics" by definition? (even if you would, for instance, silently alpha strike everyone who needs to die, and not even have a real fight)
"Really tactical" stuff is what happens in isolation, after already starting combat?

 

[Jason Liang]

Any game is easy if you know how to powergame duh

True. But then, 99% of discussion of Underrail is builds, not actual tactics (just like Age of Decadence), so a) who wouldn't know that Cheap Shots and Critical Power are absurd and b) the game played normally is actually tactically shallow and doesn't provide enough challenge to force one to figure out real tactics beyond basic dumbshit.

If you say that there is no actual tactics in Underrail, well, then I don't know where is

Clear Lunatic Mall at level 8. That's actual tactics. Well, not quite but almost. Even at level 8 you're using ridiculous stuff like Molotovs or if you were actually powergaming those toxic gas grenades. But otherwise it does force you to figure out some real tactics to not just instantly die on the 2nd floor. I wont spoil it for you in case you want to experience it yourself.

In games like Underrail and Age of Decadence (single character, AP turn based, no cover mechanics), actual tactics really comes down to situations where you need to figure out exactly where to be at the end of every turn to not die, and figuring out the exact order your enemies need to die by when and how. For example, if I asked you: to clear Lunatic Mall on level 8, who needs to die first (immediately), Frost, Vanga or Firecracker, and who do you save for last? You probably don't know since you don't need to figure it out when you are OP and it doesn't matter, but you *do* need to figure it out, by trial and error, to do it on level 8 and it does matter a lot. That's actual tactics.

Like, clearing the Ironheads doesn't really take real tactics since if you are careful they should never manage to hit you. Killing Balor required a little bit of figuring out but Balor himself was just a punter to Enrage so 90% was not actual tactics.

This is not actual tactics.

Lunatic Mall is a bad example of tactical gameplay imo, due to the map. You start the first map with a 1 tile wide chokepoint with a door AND a total LoS break, it's extremelly easy to control that and just pick enemies off with ranged damage even at low levels. Second floor has the pharmacy, again a 1 tile wide chokepoint, a door and a LoS break, but it's a bit further away. A melee char would have a harder time of course.

At level 8 a char realistically can have these disables to perma-control an enemy in a chokepoint:

• stuns: from DK, tazer or PK. DK can miss, but is supposedly irresistible, not very good at low lvl due to miss chance. Tazer can't miss, but may be resisted, chance is low tho, gos through PSP. PK (fist and electrokinesis) are I think both irresistible and neither can miss. I ussually get by with a tazer just fine. All of these require minimal skillpoint investment and no stat requirements.
• incap: flashbangs. a bit risky due to friendly fire. Needs some throwing, but that's it.
• immobilization: net and cryokinesis. Nets can miss but in fights like these I throw them on last turn of incap from flashbang so a 95% chance to apply a 2 turn immobilization. cryokinesis is cryokinesis lol. 35 in MT and some throwing. There's also the new PK immobilization.

With these, I can have a rotation, where I can continuously chain disables and have contingencies, making maps with 1 tile wide chokepoints more routine then tactics. So Lunatic mall, Grey Army, maybe Apogee store map to an extent etc.

A better example of tactics in Underrail would be maps with no or few chokepoints and unreliable LoS breaks. So maps like Port Zenith - if you attack if from ground, FC after killing bigT, Epione Lab - if you do a frontal attack, SRO assault - if you do a frontal assault without revealing the spy first. In these maps you have to constantly keep track of loose groups of enemies, you are unable to funnel them, can't reliably hide behind LoS breaks for long periods of time, or lock enemies all down at once with CC as they are scattered.

I didn't know about the pharmacy chokepoint! I made my stand on the stairwell which has two exits up and down. It was... spicy.

Also I definitely couldn't have done it without a knife. Knife was most of my kills.

Also, at least in the version I played, Lunatic Mall had some interesting quirks or bugs that made clearing it spicier than you described. First, the alarm alerts a pretty wide radius of enemies. Second, for some reason (maybe due to the number of enemies or sprites) I couldn't leave the mall by the entranceway to save/ rest/ restealth. So at least when I did it, picking enemies off at range wouldn't have worked. You do need the chokepoint to break LOS though or you get PSI'd to death.

 

[Jason Liang]

actual tactics

Just wondering - what actions would you consider as "actual tactics" in a single character game? (with or without cover mechanics, shouldn't matter that much)
If you cannot think of anything particular, as single character games are relatively simple, then why the shitting on UR and AoD specifically? Just say that squad based TB games are superior, and your point will be clear.

Or, is this only about not being FORCED to act tactically, due to having a powerful build and an overabundance of OP tools? Granted, I'm saying this from limited experience (few restarts and I'm almost wrapping up my first playthrough), but it seems to be the case only if you use certain builds, know where to look for OP stuff and synergize all that with careful positioning and scouting/metaknowledge. Still quite a lot of tactical behavior.

Having a bunch of opportunities to cheese through the game, while having a theoretically unlimited source of cheese material is not the same as saying that the game doesn't need actual tactics (it may not need a tactical approach if you make specific choices). You can even optimize your build towards cheese exploitation, if you want. Or optimize towards an effective, but boring methodical approach. Or embrace the chaos with lower effectiveness builds. Seems like a proper RPG system to me.

I grant you this - the game does kinda funnel the player into playing through the same effective and comfortable tactics. Obviously, the more you specialize, as most players probably do, the more you are "funneled" into a certain set of actions (excluding stuff available to all characters), if you want to have the edge.
So I can see how you get the impression of UR "not having actual tactics", but it sounds like a strawman.

clearing the Ironheads doesn't really take real tactics since if you are careful

If you are actively careful, and you have tools specifically selected to synergize with your approach, all to achieve a goal, isn't this "tactics" by definition? (even if you would, for instance, silently alpha strike everyone who needs to die, and not even have a real fight)
"Really tactical" stuff is what happens in isolation, after already starting combat?

Yes, I'm drawing a distinction between games that can be beaten with shallow tactics (which I consider Underrail and AoD) and games which challenge you to figure out actual tactics. Shallow tactics is basic stuff like using doors and chokepoints, kiting, stealth hit and run, spamming crowd control, etc. Its basic. Giving the player access to absurd abilities and gear *does* make games tactically shallow since those abilities and gear directly remove the need for advanced tactics, for better play. For example, in Underrail, to beat the Rat King all I did was cast Enrage, close the door, wait turns and repeat. That's shallow tactics. By advanced tactics I mean what I said above - game encounters that force you to figure out an exact plan of where you need to step and an exact order of which enemies to kill how and when, in order to even have a chance of winning. You follow that plan, something goes AWOL, you improvise and maybe you learn something new that you hadn't known before, so you've figured out a new tactic and now you revise your plan with the new tactic until you finally beat that encounter and you've actually learned something new about how the game's combat works. If you can't beat something using shallow tactics, instead of grinding or using a better build or better gear, you come up with a better plan and learn to play the game better. One example from Underrail I remember is that there is a shack near Junkyard with an Oddity guarded by three thugs. Killing those 3 thugs at I think level 2 or level 3 (whatever level you are before you get to Junkyard) was difficult enough to need actual tactics - not as much as Lunatic Mall, but a lot more than the PSI beetle base or Depot A.

Clearing the Ironclads wasn't really tactical since by that point I already had so much crowd control at my disposal that I could handle the groups of 3-4 Ironclads, cycling through my cooldowns, without ever really running out. So it wasn't tactical, I didn't need an exact plan, it was the Moon Knight "Random Bullshit Go!" meme. There was one hideout with a fence in the rail tunnels that probably had 10+ Ironclads but it was easy to clear that with Motlovs, ambush and stealth/ sniping.

Your point about single player tb rpgs is interesting, but I will say that an example of that where you need actual tactics is playing Dragonfall on the hardest difficulty, with the AI unnerfed, solo (no companions). Why Dragonfall allows actual tactics is many reasons. One, you are always vastly outnumbered (especially when solo). Two, there are 11-12 different mob AI scripts in Dragonfall, as opposed to Underrail where it seems like most mobs follow about the same 4 AI scripts, with some mobs having special scripts like casters. Three, there is no grinding since you get set karma as you progress through the game. Four, none of your gear or abilities (spells) are as absurd as the abilities you have in Underrail. Note that this is not the case with SR: Hong Kong. Five, cover mechanics *do* make a big difference since without cover your only defense is armor of LOS denial. With cover, you have the option of taking some damage without instantly dying. Six, you can't use doors as choke points since there aren't that many doors and your enemies have guns and grenades.

Still, in general you are correct that its easier for a small squad tactics game to be tactical than a single player rpg. That's why what I've been playing for the past year has been HBS Battletech with the BEX mod. The game frequently generates fresh scenarios where its difficult or impossible to accomplish your mission objectives without getting shot to hell and losing a mech or irreplaceable components. Even a year in, I'm still learning new stuff about how to play better.

 

[lukaszek]

1 tile wide chokepoint with a door AND a total LoS break

regardless of build, with current state of ai you can solve such situation with bear traps, gas grenade and... that would likely be enough. On dominating add few other grenades if you lack ranged options

 

[BlizzardStockholmSyndrome]

Purely hypothetical but do you execute the Primal women and elderly? I mean, they go aggro the moment they see you but never attack. I want to leave them alone but then I remember the crossbowniggers and suddenly have a desire to wipe the natives from this earth.

 

[Sratopotator]

Dragonfall (...) solo

Playing a squad based TB game solo is not dissimilar to playing UR while gimping yourself by not making optimal build choices. Both result in higher "artificial" difficulty, which forces the player to have a more tactical approach. Of course being "artificial" is not really true, cause there is never a single proper way of playing a complex RPG.
From your previous posts, I gather that you don't consider playing UR with subpar build as a valid option (otherwise, lack of difficulty due to certain choices/tools at your disposal would not be a problem, you can just larp them away), but you do consider playing Dragonfall solo as valid.
So, what's the difference here? Is this purely because playing solo is not as "larp-y" as just not using certain ingame tools/builds? With UR molotovs, I kinda get it, not using them would feel like larping, but not using an OP build is "larp-y" too?


I don't know maaaan, seems to me that the problem with UR is that it's first and foremost an RPG. A "proper RPG" (for me personally) has so many approaches, that there naturally will be some optimal path, power-wise, currency-wise, content-wise, etc. Balancing all those paths against each other is a crazy and overly ambitious endeavour in case of RPGs that try to give you p&p-like range of options.
I don't recollect a single RPG that had excellent and super deep tactical combat, while maintaining a p&p-like shitload of different approaches AND a non-linear world. Without resorting to overbalancing (PoE is a great example), level scaling, or using constant non-optional encounters/build "filters" (like Depot A, but more omnipresent, resulting in a linear game in practice), and similar methods, there appears to be no way of controlling the player's experience enough to guarantee a smooth difficulty curve.

Maybe UR feels a bit schizoprenic here though, cause it is combat centered, as opposed to other "Fallout-like" games (no clear pacifist path in UR), but at the same time it is mainly an RPG, and not a Tactical game. I really think you can have only one of those, and not both - omnipresent balance/user experience being tightly controlled is the enemy of good RPGs, but it is important for Tactical games.
But as far as open single char RPGs go, tactical components in UR are fucking great. They could be better only if the game was less of an RPG.

 

[lukaszek]

Purely hypothetical but do you execute the Primal women and elderly? I mean, they go aggro the moment they see you but never attack. I want to leave them alone but then I remember the crossbowniggers and suddenly have a desire to wipe the natives from this earth.

im not saying that I do, I would mention however that they carry exclusive oddity

 

[Jason Liang]

I mean, I do have issues with rpgs that are lauded for their combat when the combat is actually shallow, but my main issue with Underrail (refer here and here) really is the lack of challenging content after Depot A, coupled with how OP feats are from level 10 onward and the insane amount of free Oddities you get to scrounge after Depot A, even on DOMINATING. This was my experience playing semi-blind normally first time through.

Feats are another, smaller issue. The best feat for your build at every level point is almost always super obvious, even without referring to guides or reading players' advice. So the rpg system elements heavily tends toward cookie-cutter builds. You don't need prior game knowledge to immediately notice that Premeditation and Locus of Control seem really good.

Rance X adjusts difficulty based on how well you are doing in terms of achieving objectives each mission. Therefore (in a general sense) to get the "best" ending, you have to be able to beat the game at a pretty insane difficulty. You can beat the game on your first playthrough, but until you get better as a player, you wont get better endings.

Dragonfall doesn't need to be solo'd to get to tactical depth, but you were discussing tb combat with 1 character. Of course, frankly even with 1 character in Dragonfall you still have drones and summons so you aren't entirely solo.

Oh and Underrail's crafting/ shop refresh system is garbage.

 

[Trashos]

Combat is not shallow. It is not what you are looking for (based on accuracy of actions), but that doesn't make it shallow. It is just a different style.

I should mention that I too have complained in the past about the lack of detailed encounter design in UR. So I think I know exactly what you are missing. But at some point I figured that Styg is not interested in what I had in mind, and I dropped it. I decided to just enjoy what I was offered.

That said, if you try to do ironman (or soft ironman) runs on Dominating, things are quite thrilling, and a lot of preparation is required before any significant encounter. This is not what you are looking for I think, but this is the most serious combat UR supports, and it is not shallow.

 

[BlizzardStockholmSyndrome]

im not saying that I do, I would mention however that they carry exclusive oddity

I just don't want to waste precious seconds of my life waiting for the combat to start/end. The only thing stopping from a full on genocide is the cost of ammunition and weapon maintenance. I value their lives less than a 9 mm bullet. Then again, I did Dude's quests before joining the expedition and stumbled ass backwards on a portal.

I figured that I shouldn't wait for Marcus' shop to refresh to buy bullets and carefully consider who to engage and where. I also crafted a few shittier AR's to have back-ups for 5mm and 8.6mm. Since I can tellyport to ressuply I'm no longer sweating bullets (quite literally). Maybe on the next character I won't do Dude's quest before just to make it more interesting.

I mean, I do have issues with rpgs that are lauded for their combat when the combat is actually shallow, but my main issue with Underrail (refer here and here) really is the lack of challenging content after Depot A, coupled with how OP feats are from level 10 onward and the insane amount of free Oddities you get to scrounge after Depot A, even on DOMINATING. This was my experience playing semi-blind normally first time through.

But isn't that the point from a ludonarrative perspective? It's an RPG, the player power fantasy is a feature and not a bug. What's the point of levelling a dude if he won't be able to blow a hole on the moon by the endgame? I'd say level 14 is when the OP'ness starts which reinforces my argument - your guy is the hero of the story because he's just better.

Oh and Underrail's crafting/ shop refresh system is garbage.

Agreed. The only reason why I'm having so much fun with my current toon is because Lucas had a rapid reloader after I had completed Big Brett's quest.

 

[NooneHere]

Only joined to say that I am surprised my sub optimal fist weapon build on dominating has made it close to 26 but more so that it's made it all the way to the institute section. The sneakiest fister ever to stalk the metro. Hopefully getting that ripper's glove soon. The pneumatic hammer is a godsend and dealing 1k-2k rarely is just hilarious, especially on a dreadnought and watching it disappear. Also the incapacitation from cheap shots is starting to be a lot more helpful than I anticipated as that leaves me open to incapacitate someone else with the combat glove...so those last 4 spec points might to into boosting that, currently it's 9 into the cheap shot crit dmg and one to increase expose weakness duration.

Having quite a lot of fun so far. I did see a lot of throwing skill thrown into builds so I decided...fuck that, no throwing skill, bank on Jesus Christ for accuracy or throw them at my feet with my 3 con and god shield. Otherwise, I fist everything with metal fist and claw(until ripper)

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Lol apparently tactics = cover system

 

[roshan]

Does anyone know where I can find high quality black cloth and soft foam padding? Or high quality cloths and paddings in general?

Also, I rolled for super steel and got two plates that have 162 quality after providing 4 types of super steel data. Is that good enough for the best stuff, or should I spend/roll more? The money might be better spent on a jet ski.

Also what's the best quality for siphoner and greater siphoner leather I can expect to find? I have a seventy something quality ones that I bought from Booth. Should I hold off until I can find better?

 

[Jason Liang]

Lol apparently tactics = cover system

You have guns. Without a cover system, what makes Underrail's combat system any better than KOTOR's? It's just the same dumb pew pew.
Did you just say something about using doors as choke points and walls to break LoS? Wow, what a good boy! You so smart! Here's a doggie treat.

 

[Jason Liang]

But isn't that the point from a ludonarrative perspective? It's an RPG, the player power fantasy is a feature and not a bug. What's the point of levelling a dude if he won't be able to blow a hole on the moon by the endgame? I'd say level 14 is when the OP'ness starts which reinforces my argument - your guy is the hero of the story because he's just better.

You have a good point. I guess my fantasy is to be Batman The Punisher, not Superman.

 

[lukaszek]

Also, I rolled for super steel and got two plates that have 162 quality after providing 4 types of super steel data. Is that good enough for the best stuff, or should I spend/roll more?

good enough

Does anyone know where I can find high quality black cloth and soft foam padding? Or high quality cloths and paddings in general?

without mercantile there might be some in waterways muties. Otherwise secret occulus, tchort, vampires stock

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Did you just say something about using doors as choke points and walls to break LoS? Wow, what a good boy! You so smart! Here's a doggie treat.

I do this whenever possible, in any game. Start coughing up those treats.

 

[CHEMS]

I'll cheese doors even in games that have no doors

 

[Jason Liang]

Did you just say something about using doors as choke points and walls to break LoS? Wow, what a good boy! You so smart! Here's a doggie treat.

I do this whenever possible, in any game. Start coughing up those treats.

But can you learn new tricks?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Lol apparently tactics = cover system

You have guns. Without a cover system, what makes Underrail's combat system any better than KOTOR's? It's just the same dumb pew pew.
Did you just say something about using doors as choke points and walls to break LoS? Wow, what a good boy! You so smart! Here's a doggie treat.

It has a concealment system based on light. Darker areas = harder to hit. You can even interact with it by throwing flares or using nightvision and it does make a difference.

What I don't get about cover systems is how does leaning up against a wall give you more health (effectively)? That's just dumb, gameplay aside.

The interesting thing about Underrail is that without a cover system the player is encouraged to be mobile. Shadowrun mostly involves finding the most advantageous spot to camp. Trading shots behind chest high walls is not that interesting to me.

In any case, I'm not sure what kind of genius galaxy brain tactics are required to beat Dragonfall solo, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I bet it involves.... hit and run, burst damage, and crowd control.