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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
588
Few years ago while discussing SMGs I remember no love for Impalas, not sure why, even though since AP cost is very similar, plus it has higher crit chance.
Crit chance weapon frames aren't very useful in general. At low levels your crit is too low to bother with them, since going from ~10% to ~15% still isn't reliable. At high levels they're pointless since you can get all the crit chance you want from ambush/survival instincts/focus stim/good seeker goggles/infused rathound, so another 5% doesn't matter. And if you do have high crit then you want one of the frames with crit damage instead, so you can actually take advantage of it.
It's weird that Styg usually goes really hard with balance, but he doesn't seem to care about weapon frames. Or mods, for that matter. Most guns have the one good setup that you always want and a bunch of other mods that are trash that you never touch. Weird design.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
There was a time long ago when on hard only a normal crawler spawns. Which makes sense since this is usually the very first time you encounter this enemy time. I cannot wait for Styg to place a Black Crawler there. :mad:
Not any longer. After one of the patches you can now find a crawler before completing depA! It's in the area where you drop the red TNT for the Gang War quest. Or was a it Death Stalker. I like it tho, feels like a mini-boss.
True, I forgot about that one. Made me actually yell "what the fuck" at my monitor when I got suddenly murdered with my level 8 character. :argh:
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,768
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
I believe there is. You need cheat engine with some older underrail table(afaik new ones are locked behind payment?)
Beside merchant refresh etc there is god mode. I think. Never used it so its just my recollection of seeing it
Wait, cheat engine no longer works? Merchant refresh was a godsend for me since I can't spend hours on trader runs

Also, what about Artmoney heh
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
It is, and it’s awesome. I did my only run of the full game + DLC with exactly that char, hard + oddity. It’s a lot harder before level 12 than after. Knowing what I do now - like the right areas to be in for the power curve of the build - I think this can do dominating oddity just fine.

End game build: https://underrail.info/build/?HAMIC...UfChVMvTijioIoD4qKNA-KktgLip6oD4qicAeKxggHfvw

Lots of thoughts on it, you may want to read the OCD notes spoiler. Post.

1. I cleared the original game up to entrance to Institute before starting DLC. In retrospect, i should have started it earlier, like level 16 (on hard).

2. It is easy to go back and forth.

3. It does tie in, my only suggestion is to finish the DLC before you speak to the enigmatic leader of a genetic modification cult about advancement opportunities in his organization.

Weird build, seems low on DEX for pure SMG one. How many bursts were you able to pull off?

Why 7 INT, just for Gun Nut? +15% max dmg is not worth it, better to put it in PER for better accuracy (meaning more dmg), or pump DEX for being able to shoot another burst.

AGI 10 also seems off - just for Blitz? What do you do with those extra APs, use them for another burst? So why not just pump DEX? and leave AGI at 7.

Also, would change quick pockets for three pointer - AFAIK it gave sweet crits, especially from frag granades.

I can dig up my end game save from the run I did long before expedition came out, but I'm pretty sure I pumped DEX, and maybe PER a bit. Can't remember how many bursts I could pull and max lvl, but it beside few encounters the game was rather easy - I think I've cleared the mall without dying/reloading.
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
I've misread it for a opportunity to exchange experiences, not a 'here noob, have look at my superior build, you can now replicate it'. Not sure where's this stick in your ass came from - my questioning on your weird choices for SMG build made you realize that it's not that perfect after all, or what? May be, since you haven't bother to answer anything.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, no one asked you on advise on any builds in the first place, so don't pretend to be the cool guy here - my initial post was about expansion, and then you popped in with forced long ass post about your build, along with links and shit. Has anyone asked you for it? d: ^ )

Get off your high horse buddy.
 

Dhaze

Cipher
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
527
Location
Belgium

Weird build, seems low on DEX for pure SMG one. How many bursts were you able to pull off?

Why 7 INT, just for Gun Nut? +15% max dmg is not worth it, better to put it in PER for better accuracy (meaning more dmg), or pump DEX for being able to shoot another burst.

AGI 10 also seems off - just for Blitz? What do you do with those extra APs, use them for another burst? So why not just pump DEX? and leave AGI at 7.

Also, would change quick pockets for three pointer - AFAIK it gave sweet crits, especially from frag granades.

I can dig up my end game save from the run I did long before expedition came out, but I'm pretty sure I pumped DEX, and maybe PER a bit. Can't remember how many bursts I could pull and max lvl, but it beside few encounters the game was rather easy - I think I've cleared the mall without dying/reloading.

Regardless of selected feats, I decidedly find 7 INT a comfortable softcap of sorts for any character who invests heavily into crafting. In my current playthrough I started with 6 INT, but eventualy added another point just for that boost in crafting; also for the idea of not having a dumb character, but that's mostly flavor.

Like you, I would sideline Gun Nut. I've never found it worthwhile; not with snipers, nor shotguns, nor assault rifles, nor submachine guns. Haven't tried with pistols yet, but I suspect they wouldn't change my view on that feat.

Quick Pockets I find okay for the sake of quality of life, but yeah, it doesn't bring much to the table. With a bit of thinking ahead, three utility slots is almost always enough for me. If you really need four slots, I think the Utility Belt is a better choice than investing in a feat.

Three Pointer is great. Especially since Grenadier is already selected in that build, and with the 100 (134) displayed in Throwing that's 20% crit chance. And while we're in the vicinity, might as well pump Chemistry up to 112 effective skill, in order to craft Frag Grenades MK V.
Still on the subject of a grenade-intensive build, 35 points in Temporal Manipulation would net you Limited Temporal Increment. That, combined with the Grenadier feat, would allow you to throw a frag then cast Limited Temporal Increment and on the next turn you would already be able to throw a second frag.
With all that, you can easily clear a room in one turn without spending bullets, though that comes at the cost of buying quite a bit of Hexogen to craft your grenades.

If you leave INT at 7, Power Management might be nice? Admittedly more of a personal preference rather than something indispensable, but with a high-end 160+ Plasma Core you can craft obscene Shield Emitters with over 2000 capacity; and if you become literally surrounded by critters to the point where you can't move, with a shield like that you can throw grenades straight at your feet without any issue.

In other, unrelated news, I went all in with Super Steel for my current shield+machete build. Love that tight damage range on the machete.

QE8xm7W.jpg
QX43oyB.jpg


Presently I'm some minutes into the expedition, and oh boy I'd forgotten how tanky some enemies are. The good news is that my character is even more tanky and with good damage to boot, but the mechanical resistances are something and a half. I still have a 178-quality Super Steel plate waiting to be paired with a good Energy Edge Emitter to—hopefully—alleviate the problem somewhat, but so far no luck.
 

LJ40

Cipher
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
614
Location
Wizardry/Ultima/Goldbox
I believe there is. You need cheat engine with some older underrail table(afaik new ones are locked behind payment?)
Beside merchant refresh etc there is god mode. I think. Never used it so its just my recollection of seeing it
Wait, cheat engine no longer works? Merchant refresh was a godsend for me since I can't spend hours on trader runs

Also, what about Artmoney heh
There's one table that isn't fully updated, but still kind of works. It's a little fiddly but I got Merchant Refresh, God Mode, Game Speed, and the Item Editor to work. Unfortunately there's like 3 different tables in the FearLessRevolution Underrail thread, all on different pages, and I don't remember which one.
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,239
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
What's the best SMG combo for high DEX spec ops/grenadier/hit'n run build now, since now the smart modules don't work on bursts?

7.62 jaguar + 8.6 steel cat, both with rapid reloaders and muzzle breaks? Plus something 5mm one for silent kills?

Few years ago while discussing SMGs I remember no love for Impalas, not sure why, even though since AP cost is very similar, plus it has higher crit chance.
Pretty much. An energy knife helps too since you're presumably using Versatiity.

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Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Sooo. doing my second run on Hard after couple of years, again pure SMG/stealth/granades. no psi (I'm a lazy fucker, should've try shotgun or pistol build, but the SMG hit-n-run glass cannon build is so fun).

I see that since Expedition and multiple patches things changed a bit. Was thinking that since smart modules don't have effect on bursts, SMGs will suck now, but they don't. I got lucky and got Steel Cat 105 frame just before cleaning the depot in Junkyard and been rolling with this ever since - seems muzzle break and rapid reloader are the way to go. I like the idea of refurbishing uniques - now instead of running with some randomly crafted Jag with silencer, I'm rolling with Mini Izu, for which refurbishment adds not only a rapid reloader, but also bumps up the dmg, so now it's viable option and I can finally fool around with shock bullets. I want to refurbish K&H/NF R90/Tommy Gun, though even I'm lvl 20 right now, I still cannot find 110+ SMG frames that are required. If the refurbishment turns them into viable options now (though probably still worse than crafted weaps), then I'm going to roll only with uniques for the flavor, since as said - the game is too easy on Hard, and for Dominating it requires metagaming/planning your build/investing in psi/etc, and I'm not really into that. If I live long enough for another playthrough, it will be a pure pistol or shotgun one and also on Hard. I don't want to play tough guy here and downgrade Hard diff too much - for glass cannon no-psi SMG every fight is about positioning. Once I let mob with melee weapon get close and start cutting me, it's game over. Definitely not a build for iron man runs.

Since expedition/patches/nerfs I see that there's been some rebalancing done, which is good, but I am wondering what is the target difficulty for this optimal balance?

Biology is still kinda useless - before I even started investing in it for focus stims, I was drowning in advanced health hypos/adrenaline/morphine, which is basically all you need (adrenaline mostly for the glass cannon). Healing hypos aside, I think every other drug should be craftable/loot only + the investment into biology to craft e.g. adrenaline or focus stims should be way higher, so you actually get the satisfaction from this reaching certain threshold there. Perhaps it's nerfed on Dominating, but on Hard there're so many vendors selling adrenaline and morphine that you could literally pop them before every fight.

Crafted tactical vests are still useless and I'm using the galvanic overcoat that some lunatic dropped dozens of hours ago. Now when I got 130+ laminated panel + kevlar cloth and ~100 sturdy vest, it turns out I can craft the overcoat with almost the same parameters as the looted one, with only difference being the vest type I can choose. Seem the infused leathers are still the way to go - only this time instead of siphoneer one, I'll craft one from doggo leather, since I'm going for high crit build.

Last time I haven't put a single point into mercantile, and this time I invested >80, just to see if the extra stocks are worth it. They're not, it's mostly the same crap that the vendor is already selling, only in higher volumes - no higher quality frames, no higher tier grenades etc, nothing new. The only plus is Kevin in Foundry, since once the check is passed, he sells shitloads of W2C ammo, instead of 5-10 bullets like other vendors.

I'm just before the Tchort Institute and am going to start Expedition content - have I fucked up waiting too long and going there on lvl 20?

Just a couple of loose observations after returning to the game after 4-5 years.
 
Last edited:

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,388
I agree that Mercantile is overrated, but "nothing new" definitely was not my experience. The special stock at any given vendor generally included higher tier grenades than were available previously, crafting materials that were otherwise entirely absent, rare drugs, etc.
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Want to finish the Gauntlet before I go to Expedition areas - forgot how fucked up and irritating that was. holy fuck.

Btw where is Otto - the guy from the Core City docks with expedition staff, that gives you the quest to kill the jet eater.

Quest notes say to meet him at cave entrance in the northwest section of the city. I've looked up on the net where this is, and found only some 1-2 threads on this, with answer that he should be waiting in the western part of the docks (the part of docks with the elevator I assume), but he's nowhere to be found.
 

LJ40

Cipher
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
614
Location
Wizardry/Ultima/Goldbox
Want to finish the Gauntlet before I go to Expedition areas - forgot how fucked up and irritating that was. holy fuck.

Btw where is Otto - the guy from the Core City docks with expedition staff, that gives you the quest to kill the jet eater.

Quest notes say to meet him at cave entrance in the northwest section of the city. I've looked up on the net where this is, and found only some 1-2 threads on this, with answer that he should be waiting in the western part of the docks (the part of docks with the elevator I assume), but he's nowhere to be found.
If you already talked to Otto and accepted the quest I think he's to the west of the Core City docks waiting on his jet-ski.
 

motherfucker

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
257
The biggest problem for SMG ambush is the range. Staying out of the light while maintaining reasonable burst hit chance is not easy.
If I can do it with chem pistols, you can do it with SMGs, stop whining
 

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