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Unity reveals plans to charge developers per game install - plans revoked and CEO fired, lol

deuxhero

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Jul 30, 2007
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Flowery Land
I know it probably won't happen, but I still hope they don't back down and go through with this just to see the even bigger meltdown.

LzQ4Ny84MjIvMWRm
Really, I'm glad Unity being so retarded came when it did. Unity news broke right after I learned an expert I followed and respected for years threw his decade long friend and colleague under the bus for the crime of being accused of vague "-ists" and "-isms" by randoms on Facebook, literally the day after the two had a friendly in person meeting for the first time, and I needed the laughter to distract from that fuckery.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
newer protocols need 15 Pro and secure Apple High Speed iCable).

Well duh, that goes without saying. You can't expect bleeding-edge innovation like USB 3.0 speeds for under $999*°

*Actual speeds may vary. USB 3.0 speeds require Apple Certified® iCable purchase of $130.

°Charging of phone requires purchase of iCharger at $100. 15W Ultra Pro Plus charging requires iFastCharger purchase at $259 promotional price.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,718
The biggest impact this would have on an average gamer is that once it goes through, steam's, epic's, gog's et al. servers immediately derail and run head first into the nearest apartment block and catch fire once everyone starts re-downloading everything 24/7 like their life depended on it.
 

thesecret1

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Jun 30, 2019
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Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
 

Alphons

Cipher
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Nov 20, 2019
Messages
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And what about early access or demos? Do demo installs count? A demo is a game developed with Unity, after all.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/
Q: If a game that's made enough money to be over the threshold has a demo of the same game, do installs of the demo also induce a charge?

A: If it's early access, Beta, or a demo of the full game then yes. If you can get from the demo to a full game then yes. If it's not, like a single level that can't upgrade then no.
 

Lord_Potato

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Glory to Ukraine
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And what about early access or demos? Do demo installs count? A demo is a game developed with Unity, after all.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/
Q: If a game that's made enough money to be over the threshold has a demo of the same game, do installs of the demo also induce a charge?

A: If it's early access, Beta, or a demo of the full game then yes. If you can get from the demo to a full game then yes. If it's not, like a single level that can't upgrade then no.
I'm curious how they will check every demo whether it fills the criteria :-D
 

Trithne

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Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
That's my experience with these sorts of frameworks in general, although in corpodev rather than gamedev. They always sound good and promise you can make a product with a handful of untrained junior devs who don't know their ass from the compiler and then as soon as you try using them for anything beyond the most basic functionality they're utter shit.

Managers fucking love the theory of them though.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How does Unity know how many times a game is installed? Sales I can understand, it's a statistic the platform can divulge, but installs would require users phoning home, right? This would raise some serious privacy concerns if it was the case.
According to Unity recent 'clarifications' - they will get some 'aggregate' information that will somehow allow them to predict number of installation. And no - they won't provide details about their proprietary algorithm - but will charge their users according to it.

Apparently - this is the level of trust in Unity that not every publisher is ready for.
Unity Trust-Me-Bro™ technology.
 

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Really, I'm glad Unity being so retarded came when it did. Unity news broke right after I learned an expert I followed and respected for years threw his decade long friend and colleague under the bus for the crime of being accused of vague "-ists" and "-isms" by randoms on Facebook, literally the day after the two had a friendly in person meeting for the first time, and I needed the laughter to distract from that fuckery.

The Shad/Easton thing?
 

RobotSquirrel

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2,063
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Adelaide
Turns out Gridmaps can replace my entire unity workflow anyway. You can export your scenes to Blender using Export As > gLTF 2.0 Scene.
The benefit here is that unlike Unity which exports to FBX, you can open gLTF is pretty much anything and on top of that convert it to OBJ easily if you're using tech before gLTF was a format.
And yeah instantly bootable, Fuck you Unity Launcher you piece of shit. This is for Godot btw.
 
Last edited:

Hag

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Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
Northern Journey has been developped entirely with Blueprints and Unreal embedded tools for textures and all, and has clever mechanisms and good performance. It is a one-guy project, so it reduces clutter, but this is probably the intended target for this system. Larger project with several contributors should maybe lean toward LUA or similar that is easier to decouple.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
960
This is the best marketing Unreal Engine could ever wish for. Looks like a really fucked attempt to use some outlandish demand as an anchor and then backpedal to changes you actually wanted.

Sadly, I don't really see anything positive coming out of this. Unity collapse leading to Unreal monopoly would just lead to this all over again, with no way to escape.

When I look at things like Godot, they remind me of Blender from couple years ago - promising, but not yet viable as an alternative, especially for larger studios.
 

Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I wonder if Godot will receive targeted funding from publishers/studios to iron out some specific features now that it's seriously considered to be replacement for Unity at least in when it comes to the lower budget and 2D corners of the market?
 

Avonaeon

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I wonder if Godot will receive targeted funding from publishers/studios to iron out some specific features now that it's seriously considered to be replacement for Unity at least in when it comes to the lower budget and 2D corners of the market?
This is my hope!
 

ciox

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Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,378
Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
Inspect recent UE4 games with asset editors and you will be amazed at how much game logic is implemented with blueprints. NPC/Player objects are fucking massive especially. Part of it is devs wanting to use pre-existing blueprint systems like GameplayEffects and player avatar stuff, part of it is them probably just wanting to avoid C++.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,162
I wonder if Godot will receive targeted funding from publishers/studios to iron out some specific features now that it's seriously considered to be replacement for Unity at least in when it comes to the lower budget and 2D corners of the market?
Epic has been pumping money into Godot to fuck up Unity for years. I have a feeling that this year will be a very generous year in terms of "donations" for Godot devs.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,523
Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
Inspect recent UE4 games with asset editors and you will be amazed at how much game logic is implemented with blueprints. NPC/Player objects are fucking massive especially. Part of it is devs wanting to use pre-existing blueprint systems like GameplayEffects and player avatar stuff, part of it is them probably just wanting to avoid C++.
Why one would want to avoid C++ is beyond me, it's far faster than fucking around with blueprint spaghetti. Leads to worse performance and maintainability too, even when used correctly.
 

negator2vc

Scholar
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May 1, 2017
Messages
333
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Greece
Unity morons part 2 - The retraction part 1 :lol:

without of course a detailed explanation of how they plan to do any of them
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
333
Location
Greece
Unfortunately, that kinda plays to Unreal - Blueprints get around the traditional barrier to using it, which was the expectation that devs knew how to actually dev in c++. Expect a wave soon of game dev academy graduates who literally only know Blueprints.
Wouldn't worry too much about that. Blueprints are vastly overhyped. You, in fact, do need to know how to code if you want to do anything more complicated with them, and even then, they can very easily destroy the game's performance unless you know what you're doing. And at that point, you'll just write it in C++. They're a great supplemental tool when you want to make instances that behave slightly differently from base class and don't feel like crating new child classes just for that, but should you try to make a whole game using them, you'll find it become a buggy mess with abysmal performance.

Trust me, our studio has tried to teach designers and the like to script shit in blueprints on their own, but it quickly turned out to not be feasible for anything but the simplest shit. If you give them free rein, they'll nuke the performance because they don't know what they're doing, meaning a coder needs to review whatever they do, at which point it's easier if the coder just does it himself, and he'll do anything complicated in C++ (because it performs better and is actually faster to write most of the time). So much for blueprints.
Inspect recent UE4 games with asset editors and you will be amazed at how much game logic is implemented with blueprints. NPC/Player objects are fucking massive especially. Part of it is devs wanting to use pre-existing blueprint systems like GameplayEffects and player avatar stuff, part of it is them probably just wanting to avoid C++.
Why one would want to avoid C++ is beyond me, it's far faster than fucking around with blueprint spaghetti. Leads to worse performance and maintainability too, even when used correctly.
Unreal need a proper scripting language. they had one in the past but for some reason they dropped it when they moved to v4
Not everyone want to go low level just to program a fucking game especially the gameplay part
Try doing for ex. coroutines in C++
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
9,197
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Since they mention devs don't need to pay "re-install fees", I think by install they mean a new combination of software and computer (possibly determined by unique mac addresses). For instance, if you install the same game on a desktop and two laptops, that is three installs, even if you uninstall and re-install it several times on each.

This is, of course, still rather baffling and absurd. But unfortunately it seems the dreams of ruining companies by running re-install farms are for now dashed.
 

Dodo1610

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,172
Location
Germany
I have to say, I respect John Riccitiello for fucking over the Genshin Impact. Not many are brave enough to meddle in Chinese business but then again most people don't want to see the inside of their prision camps.
 

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