KickStarter Vampire Syndicate: Gangs of MoonFall

[Lord_Potato]

80,2 k. 11 days to go. We're getting there.

 

[Lord_Potato]

85,4k and 7 days to go.

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

Tyranicon hope you have some aces hidden up your sleaves for the final days of the kickstarter campaign!

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

85,4k and 7 days to go.

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

Tyranicon hope you have some aces hidden in your sleaves for the final days of the kickstarter campaign!

There's always end rush during last 3 days.
Base management may be stretch goal too far.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Follower customization would be nice to have for generated henchmen... although I will most likely roll with party members created by Tyranicon . I'm sure he'll give us a couple of worthy waifus, just like he did in Memoirs.

 

[Tyranicon]

85,4k and 7 days to go.

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

Tyranicon hope you have some aces hidden in your sleaves for the final days of the kickstarter campaign!

There's always end rush during last 3 days.
Base management may be stretch goal too far.

Yeah, I'm pretty optimistic about at least reaching the Courtesans. Further stretch goals might be, you know, a stretch. But we'll see.

Also, an update:

Hi everyone,

We have entered the final week of the campaign, and are closing in on the stretch goal for the courtesans. I also figured I would add what will probably be the final stretch goals as well.

The capstone stretch goal is something I've been working on for a while, and that's the idea of living factions, or factions that aren't static but will behave proactively to further their own interests. Basically what they do in grand strategy games, but in an RPG.

As far as I know, this has not really been tried in a narrative RPG, because of the complexity it would add, but I think I have a good strategy for it. You can learn more in the below video:

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Lord_Potato here's Kicktraq data about this project.

Today's been the slowest funding day during campaign.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

85,4k and 7 days to go.

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

Tyranicon hope you have some aces hidden in your sleaves for the final days of the kickstarter campaign!

There's always end rush during last 3 days.
Base management may be stretch goal too far.

Yeah, I'm pretty optimistic about at least reaching the Courtesans. Further stretch goals might be, you know, a stretch. But we'll see.

Also, an update:

Hi everyone,

We have entered the final week of the campaign, and are closing in on the stretch goal for the courtesans. I also figured I would add what will probably be the final stretch goals as well.

The capstone stretch goal is something I've been working on for a while, and that's the idea of living factions, or factions that aren't static but will behave proactively to further their own interests. Basically what they do in grand strategy games, but in an RPG.

As far as I know, this has not really been tried in a narrative RPG, because of the complexity it would add, but I think I have a good strategy for it. You can learn more in the below video:

Yo what's this about Living factions? I thought they're all undead, mostly.

 

[Tyranicon]

Yo what's this about Living factions? I thought they're all undead, mostly.

I knew somebody was going to make that joke.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Yo what's this about Living factions? I thought they're all undead, mostly.

I knew somebody was going to make that joke.

You could've used "dynamic".

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Question: why did you choose to make vampirism and faction membership into an in-character choice? Why not start as a vampire, with faction chosen by the player out-of-character, as was done in certain other games?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Question: why did you choose to make vampirism and faction membership into an in-character choice? Why not start as a vampire, with faction chosen by the player out-of-character, as was done in certain other games?

This way he has time to actually implement the vampirism mechanics sometime during early access.
Nah, it's just how it is, work your way to power.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I’m genuinely curious about the creative decision because it leads to different dynamics. Arguably more sensible ones. If a vampire choses their faction because it suits their human personality, then that’s very different from having it forced on them and arbitrarily altering their personality into a stereotype of a loyal drone. The latter is a huge logical problem that certain other games suffer from.

Speaking of, can a vampire just splinter off and form their own faction if they no longer identify with the one they originally joined? That’s how the different factions originally formed, right?

 

[Storyfag]

The latter is a huge logical problem that certain other games suffer from.

Not to anyone with a modicum of understanding of the themes of said certain other game -,-

 

[Tyranicon]

Question: why did you choose to make vampirism and faction membership into an in-character choice? Why not start as a vampire, with faction chosen by the player out-of-character, as was done in certain other games?

Oh that's easy. I wanted the player to experience the vampire hierarchy from the bottom. The last demo had the player start as a familiar, but I figured I might as well go all the way and start the game as completely uninitiated.

The lineages are organized like ancient crime syndicates, full of their own themes and rituals, so I think it would be really cool. Also letting the player get to know the lineages without having to choose on chargen is a huge bonus.

I’m genuinely curious about the creative decision because it leads to different dynamics. Arguably more sensible ones. If a vampire choses their faction because it suits their human personality, then that’s very different from having it forced on them and arbitrarily altering their personality into a stereotype of a loyal drone. The latter is a huge logical problem that certain other games suffer from.

Speaking of, can a vampire just splinter off and form their own faction if they no longer identify with the one they originally joined? That’s how the different factions originally formed, right?

Vampires in my setting are very different than most, especially from VtMB. I've said many times I'm not very knowledgeable about VtMB, in fact what little I do know is mostly research so I know what to stay away from so I don't get hit with plagiarism accusations.

That being said, the answer to your question is generally no, and the reason is part of what makes my vampires different: those who control the lineages also control the spread of that line of vampirism. A splinter faction will have no way to create new vampires. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though.

Yes, it's a thin reference to being "made" or "inducted" that many secret crime societies have.

 

[Demo.Graph]

those who control the lineages also control the spread of that line of vampirism

Arguably, it's the way it was in oWoD, with methuselahs playing 4D chess by bloodbonding everyone and 13 generation vamps (PCs) being akin to embryos of proper vampires.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

The lineages are organized like ancient crime syndicates, full of their own themes and rituals, so I think it would be really cool. Also letting the player get to know the lineages without having to choose on chargen is a huge bonus.

Neato. That actually makes more sense even. I’m really surprised no other devs have done this before you, because it feels like the most natural fit in the world. You’re either really smart and creative, or everyone else is really dumb and dull.

in fact what little I do know is mostly research so I know what to stay away from so I don't get hit with plagiarism accusations.

That’s rich. Anyone who thinks that game invented vampires is a fucking moron completely illiterate in media and particularly in vampire fiction. Mark Rein•Hagen (the creator back in 1991) liberally plagiarized from Anne Rice, Brian Lumley, Bram Stoker, Robert E Howard, Yuzo Takada, Nicholas Cage, F.W. Murnau, Mario Puzo, and multiple other authors.

I have actually had people tell me that said game invented the idea of vampires organizing and having human familiars. This is complete bullshit. Human familiars go all the way back to Renfield in Dracula. Organization (beyond a master and brides) goes at least as far back as Anne Rice’s Vampire Chronicles in the 1970s, where vampires organized into covens. Even the idea of different types of vampires in the same story goes back to at least Captain Kronos in the 1970s.

Anyone who accuses you is full of shit and easy to disprove. Any viable plagiarism claim would require you to deliberately copy and not do any original research on vampire fiction. There are numerous vampire folklore and fiction encyclopedias on Google Books that you can buy.

And even if you did make something very obviously inspired by a game from 20 years ago, so what? Humans recycle tropes for storytelling all the time. Unless you’re literally plagiarizing, which you’re not and which would open you up to copyright lawsuits anyway, the ignorant haters can go fuck themselves.

those who control the lineages also control the spread of that line of vampirism. A splinter faction will have no way to create new vampires.

Clever. Lets them screen out candidates and largely avoid schisms. I’m guessing any splinters that grew did so by inventing new rituals that weren’t under the control of others? Would the PC be able to invent his own ritual over the course of the game or no? Just curious

 

[Tyranicon]

Clever. Lets them screen out candidates and largely avoid schisms. I’m guessing any splinters that grew did so by inventing new rituals that weren’t under the control of others?

More or less.

Vampirism is the half-successful recreation of a divine blessing by ancient Ur-Drucah sorcerers. The ritual and the materials needed to perform it were lost and rediscovered, but with significant gaps of knowledge. Each of the modern surviving lineages plugged these gaps with their own solutions, introducing unique effects into their resulting Vampiric curse.

Would the PC be able to invent his own ritual over the course of the game or no? Just curious

Probably not in this game.

 

[Herumor]

It might have been mentioned in the thread before, but what kind of music/soundtrack will you be using for this game?

 

[Tyranicon]

It might have been mentioned in the thread before, but what kind of music/soundtrack will you be using for this game?

A lot of electronic, synth stuff, like what you hear in my YouTube videos. Some tracks are coming back from Memoirs and there'll be lots of new stuff as well as variation.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

everyone else is really dumb and dull

Yup they're just hiding it by forming a collective.

 

[Harthwain]

That’s rich. Anyone who thinks that game invented vampires

Nobody says "that game invented vampires". Or even that Vampie: The Masquerade invented vampires. The origin of the vampires in the popular culture is very well known. Anything else than a blatant plagiarism of some trademark protected work would be extremely hard to prove.

In fact, I would argue it would be much easier to break away from the common vampire tropes, rather than reinforcing them. Or at least changing them in a way that is more interesting than the traditional ones by this point (unless the classic take is precisely what you aim for).

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

It's over $90k now.

 

[Lord_Potato]

I'm not so sure about Courtesan's Guild stretch goal anymore...

It's over $90k now.

And still 5 days to go!

 

[Alienman]

Over 9000!

 

[RaggleFraggle]

In fact, I would argue it would be much easier to break away from the common vampire tropes, rather than reinforcing them. Or at least changing them in a way that is more interesting than the traditional ones by this point (unless the classic take is precisely what you aim for)

Aside from Wrath of Malachi and A Vampyre Story, how many games use gothic vampire tropes? For protagonists? How many breakaway from stereotypes? What are the stereotypes and how prevalent are they?

At this point, there’s been so many different takes on vampires that saying you’re using the stereotypes or defying them is a pointless thing to say. Nobody is using the gothic stereotypes seriously anymore. Those have been outdated since what, the 1980s? It’s solely the purview of parodies like What We Do In The Shadows. They actually have an episode where the vampire characters debate and test lesser known folklore like a compulsion to coin grains, dismissing it as superstition only to immediately stop and count spilled grains.

Specifically in video games, vampires don’t even appear often enough or significantly enough for there to be common expectations for them in gameplay. Beyond “has fangs” and “drinks blood”, I guess.

The only recent example I can think of is Cabernet. It follows the Dracula stereotype to a tee, sets it in 19th century Slavic fantasy land, and throws in some vampire court drama.

Nobody says "that game invented vampires".

Maybe they don’t say exactly that, because they’re not that stupid, but the people I chatted with are so media illiterate that they effectively think so. They always mention that the game invented most vampire tropes, when in fact I always find counter examples going back decades. Familiars? Goes back to Renfield. Covens? Anne Rice, witch lore before that. Different species of vampires? Captain Kronos in 1977, folklore before that. Come back to life if the stake is removed? House of Frankenstein in 1944, similar folklore going back centuries. Masking their appearance with psychic powers? Necroscope in the 1980s. Some are fairly obscure (that last one was never actually said to me, I included it as trivia), but most are low hanging fruit.

People are ignorant and, worse, smug about it.