World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Goral]

the fact alone that humans haven't been eradicated centuries ago (when only low generation vampires existed) suggests that they weren't powerful enough to conquer the world.

They’re parasites. If they eradicate the host, they die next.

I meant their culture and freedom, i.e. becoming only cattle.

 

[Ismaul]

the fact alone that humans haven't been eradicated centuries ago (when only low generation vampires existed) suggests that they weren't powerful enough to conquer the world.

They’re parasites. If they eradicate the host, they die next.

I meant their culture and freedom, i.e. becoming only cattle.

Again, it's because the World of Darkness games are based on this idea: "what if there were vampires/monsters in our world that we didn't know about?" Our world as it is is the starting point of the WoD setting. The resulting society might not correspond to what would be the logical development of vampires co-existing with humans, but that's the fantasy those RPGs sell.

 

[Lacrymas]

The first vampires did make themselves known to humans. Enoch and all that. But they were like 17 in the whole world. Whether they were really as strong as they are now isn't certain, they might've gotten stronger as time went on. The story of Cain and the antediluvians shouldn't be taken at face value, it's basically a mythological narrative. The other problem of why vampires can't openly show themselves is other supernaturals and the Technocracy. They managed to kill an antediluvian in a single battle, what would happen if they try it against lesser vampires?

 

[Luckmann]

That is not the problem with Sabbat. The real narrative problem was how Vampires managed to keep themselves hidden when you had Sabbat running around the streets and causing mayhem.

I thought the Sabbat believed in the Masquerade, they just liked pushing it so the Camarilla wasted resources cleaning up after them.

The Sabbat does not believe in the masquerade. They reject it as a principle. But they do adhere to it, because "the time isn't right". This opposition between "what we want" and "reality" is a source of much chafing in the Sabbat, and one of the biggest issues faced by Archbishops and Bishops.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[ArchAngel]

Main opposition to Vampires conquering the world are probably Mages and Werewolves, neither would idly stand by and let them.
And Werewolves are a mighty opposition, especially if they can ally themselves with humans openly.

Vampires would need to lead humans to erradicate other supernaturals before they can turn on humans.

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't know enough about those settings to comment. But I doubt God would interfere unless Vampires would try to wipe out humans completely. I am talking about Vampires just openly rulling over humans.

 

[Herumor]

And Werewolves are a mighty opposition, especially if they can ally themselves with humans openly.

Yeah, about that... does anyone remember that WtA video game that Cyanide Studios was supposed to be developing? One of the White Wolf devs at the time mentioned that a second Impergium was going to be a thing for WtA while talking about the game at the time. So that whole thing allying with humans would be pretty much a no-go unless they completely shifted away from this stance. For those unaware what I'm talking about, a quote from the wiki:

The Impergium was the culling of the human population practiced by the Garou in prehistoric times. The Red Talons still call for a return to the Impergium today, blaming the unchecked spread of humanity for the madness of the Weaver and the Wyrm and the slow death of Gaia.

 

[ArchAngel]

Even werewolves are not wild enough to think it would be better with humans under Vampire rule.

 

[FreeKaner]

I have gotten info that this will be the best lethal damage weapon in the game, perfect for killing vampires.

 

[Lord Commissar Alexer]

I thought flamethrowers would be the best weapon...

 

[FreeKaner]

It is slightly conspicuous to walk around with a flamethrower at all times, especially for vampires.

 

[Lord Commissar Alexer]

Maybe outside of america.

 

[Elephantman]

Main opposition to Vampires conquering the world are probably Mages and Werewolves, neither would idly stand by and let them.

And other vampires...

 

[Popiel]

You forget wraiths demons and God.

Would these ones act...? As far as I know God is not active in this setting.

 

[Ent]

You forget wraiths demons and God.

Would these ones act...? As far as I know God is not active in this setting.

True faith is pretty potent though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You forget wraiths demons and God.

Would these ones act...? As far as I know God is not active in this setting.

True faith is pretty potent though.

The strength of it was heavily downplayed in the original vtmb, I hope they don't do that again.

 

[Modron]

I thought flamethrowers would be the best weapon...

Nope, if Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption taught me anything modern helicopter machine guns and flamethrowers are vastly inferior to medieval weaponry.

 

[Luckmann]

Main opposition to Vampires conquering the world are probably Mages and Werewolves, neither would idly stand by and let them.
And Werewolves are a mighty opposition, especially if they can ally themselves with humans openly.

Vampires would need to lead humans to erradicate other supernaturals before they can turn on humans.

Mages are the biggest potential hurdle, but Mages are ultimately slaves to a number of restrictions that could end up fucking them in a massive paradigm shift in what humans (or "sleepers") would think, or act. Vampires out in the open would be a massive culture shock to them, and likely paralyze vast swathes of humanity right then and there, and that's before we get into Ghouls and Revenants. For many intents and purposes, Vampires already rule.

Second, Werewolves cannot ally openly with humanity either. Even just their war-forms tends to paralyze humans in fear and force them into a metaphysical fugue state, and that's before we get into the issue that werewolves themselves may be fighting on the "good" side, but they are far from good-good, nevermind the many, many werewolves who themselves advocate for the culling of humanity.

You forget wraiths demons and God.

Would these ones act...? As far as I know God is not active in this setting.

True faith is pretty potent though.

It is, and honestly Hunters/Imbued with True Faith are potentially formidable foes. I know that Bloodlines 2 is going to be shit and that it's based on V5 (which is shit), but it would've been all kinds of fun to actually explore the Hunter facet of the universe from the perspective of the Vampires, at least in a not-shit game.

 

[Lord Commissar Alexer]

Is not the whole point of the masquerade to hide from humans because they would exterminate them? I remember a loading screen in the game where they state that humans nearly wiped them out in the middle ages with just pitchforks and torches.

 

[Herumor]

Nope, if Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption taught me anything modern helicopter machine guns and flamethrowers are vastly inferior to medieval weaponry.

Ainkurn sword isn't anything to frown at.

Is not the whole point of the masquerade to hide from humans because they would exterminate them? I remember a loading screen in the game where they state that humans nearly wiped them out in the middle ages with just pitchforks and torches.

Yes. In V5 there's an ongoing Second Inquisition that's out to exterminate vampires, but for obvious reasons, they won't be victorious anytime soon or ever, because then White Wolf/Paradox has nothing to sell to their Vampire audience. Initially, they brought up how the Technocratic Union was involved with the SI, along with various alphabet soup agencies, but I think they pulled the TU from that in the final draft because they'd have then been be in a position to permanently remove the leeches from existence once and for all.

All in all, it really depends on what the developers want to write. In one Gehenna scenario, the Antediluvians ruled the world, reshaping it into a nightmare for every human that was alive at the time being. Clearly, that meant humans couldn't win. But then you have said contradictory statements about how humans were a credible threat back in the Dark Ages, back before we had all this nifty tech, so that doesn't really fly well in face of what they established in some what-if scenario. Best thing is to avoid looking too deep into these matters, they don't hold up well, and in the end they're merely convenient reasons to keep vampires hidden from the general population.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well in dark ages more humans could fight and swords do more damage to vampires than bullets. Also it is easier to control humans through mass media than it was in dark ages.

 

[Lacrymas]

The biggest problem is that vampires are generally useless during the day. Humans have no such limitation.

 

[Roguey]

Would these ones act...? As far as I know God is not active in this setting.

In the now-retconned Gehenna book, each scenario had "God decides he's had enough of this vampire business and has decided to make them all wither to nothing" with the differences being in how fast it happened.

 

[Luckmann]

Is not the whole point of the masquerade to hide from humans because they would exterminate them? I remember a loading screen in the game where they state that humans nearly wiped them out in the middle ages with just pitchforks and torches.

It wasn't just pitchforks and torches, really. It was a concentrated effort by the Inquisition, with a (relatively speaking) ton of True Faith involved, targeting a very disorganized kindred/cainite community. Even though there were aspects of the masquerade already as one of the major traditions, the Inquisition was a big part of the formation of the Camarilla at the Convention of Thorns and the adoption of The Masquerade as the #1 Tradition, and active policing of the Traditions by the Camarilla. The second big thing was the Anarch Revolt(s), and the Anarchs were granted protection and formal inclusion by the Camarilla.