World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Alphons]

Eh, I would've just made a low-budget porn game out of it. Which I'm still doing anyways without the IP, so no loss there.

Well, Hardsuit made low-budget porn. Shame they forgot the "game" part.

 

[Roguey]

Lacroix's Dominate works on the PC several times (because it has to for plot purposes) up until the end of the game where it suddenly stops working.

Even if the game came out there's little chance that it'd be worth anyone's time let alone money. Just let it go.

No, I want to rubberneck just what kind of corner-cutting mediocrity/disaster they're gonna put out.

 

[Trithne]

Goddamnit, I was going to state that looking at the Tzimisce reminded me of the Bogdanoffs all of a sudden and clearly they were just the end result of a Botched Vicissitude, but in searching for an image of them to go with the post I found that they've recently died, ruining my already terrible joke.

 

[Storyfag]

The dumbest part of the Bloodlines story is that the player's sire was staked and executed so easily.

That one must have been a patsy, the real Sire remaining unknown. Or driving a cab.

 

[Storyfag]

And then Jack was a pirate, likely somewhere around 4-500 by that point.

300 almost to a T. The golden age of piracy was in the early 1700s.

 

[Storyfag]

It makes sense from start to finish and in my own lore Caine uses the plot as a test to see how his children behave under stress...

He outright states as much during the final discussions with him. He comments how the Anarchs were a curious experiment, how he had hopes for the Camarilla, and so on.

 

[Delterius]

Nines is ... 9th generation. LaCroix is scared of Nines because he has Jack in his corner. Otherwise the Ivory Tower would have chased the Anarchs present at The Last Round out of town a while ago since they're all less than 100 years old. Mercurio is actually older than all of them, except Jack and maybe Nines.

We can argue power levels all we want, but being a coward is one of LaCroix's character traits. It doesn't matter that he can dominate people at will, he still won't just walk up to them and do it. Case in point: LaCroix 'knew' all along that he could just Dominate the main character. That fact is only disproven at the last scene. But he'd still rather send his army at them rather than risk his own skin. Even when said risk is supposedly nill. Another important fact about LaCroix's character is that he's a politician. And the only reason LaCroix moved into LA is because the Anarchs had just lost a battle against the invading Kuei-Jin. LaCroix had his hands full dealing with the Chinese and the Sabbat, so he needed that Anarch truce. He wouldn't just declare war on the Anarchs, he wanted a legitimate reason to hunt Nines down and, perhaps, unite the Kindred of LA against the Kuei-Jin.

 

[Viata]

LaCroix is a weird faggot who looked down on humans and went "I was under Napoleon's command" or whatever.

 

[Vincente]

Case in point: LaCroix 'knew' all along that he could just Dominate the main character.

He dominates you multiple times if you tell him to fuck off about seeing Grout and visiting Elizabeth Dane.

LaCroix is a weird faggot who looked down on humans and went "I was under Napoleon's command" or whatever.

As he should. Humans are cattle.

 

[Viata]

As he should. Humans are cattle.

So no reason to feel superior by being under some other human when he was human.

 

[Delterius]

Case in point: LaCroix 'knew' all along that he could just Dominate the main character.

He dominates you multiple times if you tell him to fuck off about seeing Grout and visiting Elizabeth Dane.

Yes. I know. That's the point, man. LaCroix knows he can just Dominate you. So why doesn't he just do it? Why doesn't he just take the elevator to the first floor and Dominate you into killing yourself? Because that's not who he is. By then you've destroyed the Sabbat and likely the Kuei-Jin as well. You've survived a werewolf. One thing was Dominating you when you had your guard down. Now the odds are that you're coming for his skin. So instead of Dominating you LaCroix sends a blood hunt, the police, the special forces, his camarilla army, and the Sheriff before he even considers Dominating you. Because hey, who knows, this motherfucker that just wiped the city clean of two whole factions of monsters might just ambush me before I get to look them in the eye!

 

[Vincente]

Case in point: LaCroix 'knew' all along that he could just Dominate the main character.

He dominates you multiple times if you tell him to fuck off about seeing Grout and visiting Elizabeth Dane.

Yes. I know. That's the point, man. LaCroix knows he can just Dominate you. So why doesn't he just do it? Why doesn't he just take the elevator to the first floor and Dominate you into killing yourself? Because that's not who he is. By then you've destroyed the Sabbat and likely the Kuei-Jin as well. You've survived a werewolf. One thing was Dominating you when you had your guard down. Now the odds are that you're coming for his skin. So instead of Dominating you LaCroix sends a blood hunt, the police, the special forces, his camarilla army, and the Sheriff before he even considers Dominating you. Because hey, who knows, this motherfucker that just wiped the city clean of two whole factions of monsters might just ambush me before I get to look them in the eye!

Well he was a relatively young Prince by Camarilla standards, and he was new to the whole politics game. Even when he did dominate the main character, it was a last option. He never uses Dominate on you if you're polite to him and do what he tells you to. But I don't think he was a coward. Inexperienced, paranoiac maybe, also poor decision making, like allying with Kuei-Jin to wipe the Anarchs, but not a coward. A coward wouldn't do these types of power plays. All his plans needed reliable muscle but he never found any. One would think that a Sheriff could do such things but he never wanted the Sheriff to leave his side.

So no reason to feel superior by being under some other human when he was human.

He was a commander in Napoleon's army, no? Probably had aristocrat blood aswell, since he was Embraced by Belgian nobility.

 

[Delterius]

One would think that a Sheriff could do such things but he never wanted the Sheriff to leave his side.

Well, there is a moment when he says 'You've been trying to wipe them out for weeks. He did it [wipe out the LA sabbat] in a night!'. So that's not the problem. The Sheriff just never had the opportunity you had. Or he was simply canonically too weak to do a frontal assault on Hallowbrook.

I don't think LaCroix was inexperienced per se. He is young relative to Camarilla Elders, but that doesn't mean much. He's probably one of the oldest vampires in LA and that did not avail him. Abbrams, Therese, Nines are all younger than him and competent at what they are trying to do. Which is way less than LaCroix. Strauss comes across as more experienced than LaCroix, but the thing is that Strauss never tried to be Prince of LA. He's ok with being Tremere Primogen.

The problem I think is that LaCroix is just in over his head. He comes across as this up and coming new talent from the west. Napoleonic Wars generation. A mere child in old world terms, still doesn't amount to much among the elites of core of Camarilla USA but he's got some connections and powerful pawns. So he tries his hand at the frontier. Los Angeles is the boonies of the atlantic vampire world and to LaCroix the sudden chaos from the Kuei-Jin invasion must have seemed like an opportunity. He'd enter the city and restore the balance of power between Kindred and Ghost, he'd be the savior of both Camarilla and Anarch. But then he continuously failed to bring people to heel. The Anarchs, predictably, resisted his rule. That would have been much less of a problem if the Sabbat hadn't invaded LA as well, if the Kuei-Jin didn't prove to be so disciplined and powerful, and if the LA Camarilla Primogen themselves didn't resist LaCroix's rule as well. Strauss is loyal, Gary and Grout not so much. LaCroix was a middle manager who was probably good enough material to stake domain elsewhere in the pacific coast, but LA turned out to be a job for an Elder.

A coward wouldn't do these types of power plays.

I suppose. Still I think you'd agree that LaCroix is no warrior-prince. His power play consists in acquiring powerful pawns, and never in himself as the tip of any spears. He'd sooner dominate suicide bombers than show his face in battle. So while I do stand by the word coward, I'd add the word toady as the most important qualifier. He must have spent the last centuries being a sycophant in someone else's court. He defers to power by default and even once political power is his own for the taking he continues to act obsequiously towards his minions. Be them the Sheriff or his Wunderkid. They are his Fighting Men and they exist to be blackmailed or flattered into service, not necessarily subjugated by his own hand. He must be the sort of person who is confident in his own magical powers and likely to use Dominate as a crutch. After all, there is no way anybody in this far away forgotten city in the californian desert is of a lower generation than him, right?

 

[Roguey]

LaCroix's an intentional fraud because he claims to be French yet his non-English voice actor gives him an English accent. Wouldn't trust any details he gives about his history.

 

[Vincente]

Well, there is a moment when he says 'You've been trying to wipe them out for weeks. He did it [wipe out the LA sabbat] in a night!'. So that's not the problem. The Sheriff just never had the opportunity you had. Or he was simply canonically too weak to do a frontal assault on Hallowbrook

That makes sense, but then again you never see Sheriff in combat against actual Sabbat, minus that one small cutscene in the tutorial. Makes you wonder about his power level. Is he on Andrei's level or not?

Abbrams, Therese, Nines are all younger than him and competent at what they are trying to do.

Eh, Abrams couldn't get rid of that gargoyle. Nines feels like someones Sonic OC in terms of "look how badass and noble he is, he has no bad qualities!", barely feels like an actual character, and Therese is actually older than LaCroix if we're going by 5e rules, she's the childe of a Malkavian methuselah or something.

The problem I think is that LaCroix is just in over his head

I agree, even he knows problems beset him non-stop. Even his trusted "allies" don't trust him. But then again if you look at his plans it was all well crafted, from destroying Grout to calling a Blood Hunt on Nines. He just needed reliable muscle. Sheriff wasn't enough for ambitions as big as his (destroy Sabbat and Anarchs, push Kuei-Jin back, unite the city...).

Still I think you'd agree that LaCroix is no warrior-prince. His power play consists in acquiring powerful pawns, and never in himself as the tip of any spears. He'd sooner dominate suicide bombers than show his face in battle.

And that's perfectly fine in my opinion. Not every ruler should be a warrior-king, or thrash like a rabid hound and lead the charge against his enemies. He was pure brains, trying to move the chess pieces in the most effective way. Would you call the King in chess a coward for hiding behind resources? Like Jack says, Ventrue are born in a boardroom.

LaCroix's an intentional fraud because he claims to be French yet his non-English voice actor gives him an English accent. Wouldn't trust any details he gives about his history.

You can't even call him out on his English accent with Research 10, so I'm calling it an unintentional mistake on devs part.

 

[Delterius]

You can't even call him out on his English accent with Research 10, so I'm calling it an unintentional mistake on devs part.

I mean I know the main character is american but would it really take Research 10 to realize LaCroix is a belgian with an english accent?

Spoiler

 

[Vincente]

You can't even call him out on his English accent with Research 10, so I'm calling it an unintentional mistake on devs part.

I mean I know the main character is american but would it really take Research 10 to realize LaCroix is a belgian with an english accent?

Spoiler

Probably not, recognizing the Assyrian writings on the sarcophagus required 8 or something. I was just saying that's why it was unintentional.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The Sheriff just never had the opportunity you had. Or he was simply canonically too weak to do a frontal assault on Hallowbrook.

Nix, the guy couldn't fit through doors and could find no one willing to undo the vampiric restrictions by inviting him wherever.

 

[Roguey]

You can't even call him out on his English accent with Research 10, so I'm calling it an unintentional mistake on devs part.

Games are written before any voice acting is recorded, so it seems unlikely they'd ever write a situation that would draw attention to something that hasn't been recorded yet (and that might possibly be changed or ultimately not what they want). Given how apparently no one has ever asked Boyarsky about the discrepancy it makes sense for any given vampire you can play to just not notice/care. It also seems unlikely that a top tier recording outfit like Womb would get a character description describing the character as coming from a French background and then deliver a performance with an English accent.

 

[Infinitron]

It also seems unlikely that a top tier recording outfit like Womb would get a character description describing the character as coming from a French background and then deliver a performance with an English accent.

I suspect that some voice casting directors might choose a British accent for these sorts of characters because Americans find French accents funny.

 

[Herumor]

That one must have been a patsy, the real Sire remaining unknown. Or driving a cab.

Or it might have very well been the actual sire of the PC, compelled to do Caine's bidding as would literally any other vampire, with Caine himself just increasing the potency of your blood as the game goes along.

 

[Nutria]

Next you're gonna tell me that Patrick Stewart doesn't have a French accent.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

So which studio is working on VTMB2 right now?

Roguey and others are saying it might be The Chinese Room, but there is no official statement yet.

They are owned by Sumo Digital, who recently suffered a big fail with a Robin Hood game. And they laid off staff a few years ago, they are small now. And they've only made "walking simulator" narrative games, no action games.
So I doubt they would be working on this. And I hope they wouldn't be working on it, at least not alone.

I am confident that it’s The Chinese Room and they got approval to overhaul much of Hardsuit’s version. The game is aiming for a late 2023/early 2024 release.

I don’t really know what they’re doing and I’m not an AAA game dev so I can only speculate about Paradox trusting Sumo and The Chinese Room enough to get it out in approximately 2 years against 5 years of Hardsuit’s dev time

 

[Delterius]

the chinese room

a company best known for

*checks notes*

a mod for half life 2 and dlc for amnesia

urban fantasy is a cursed genre. every day seems like the 9/11.

 

[Tyranicon]

Next you're gonna tell me that Patrick Stewart doesn't have a French accent.

I don't want to be like well actually, but French in Picard's timeline is a dead language.

Jean-Luc Picard was born to Maurice and Yvette Picard in La Barre, France, on 13 July 2305, and he dreamed of joining Starfleet. He and the rest of his family speak English, with English accents—the French language having become obscure by the 24th century, as mentioned in the Next Generation episode “Code of Honor“.