World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Delterius]

you rpg nerds may not know this but this is actually the fourth+ time that paradox was scammed out of millions of dollars by a modder tier development team. twice with actual modders of their games, one of which turned out to be a portuguese schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur, once with feargus 'he who de-owners' urukheart, and now with a seattle no-name team whose only achievement is making an fps nobody knows about.

so what i'm trying to say is that paradox is actually a money laundering operation.

 

[Roguey]

Are you mentally stuck in 2013 where Brian Fargo is still able to convince people that Bad Games happen due to Evil Publishers, or did you just fall in the pot full of copium as kids like some Current Year neckbeard version of Obelix?

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

 

[Wesp5]

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

That is the best summary of what probably happened that I have read yet! About it not being Paradox's fault, I have heard details to the contrary that I'm not allowed to talk about though...

 

[GhostCow]

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

That is the best summary of what probably happened that I have read yet! About it not being Paradox's fault, I have heard details to the contrary that I'm not allowed to talk about though...

I find this hard to believe just from looking at the dev team. No way any of them were competent at anything other than talk no jutsu

 

[Roguey]

I find this hard to believe just from looking at the dev team. No way any of them were competent at anything other than talk no jutsu

Paradox made a bad situation worse, that's what happened. From too hands-off to too hands-on as that one glassdoor review about Paradox put it.

 

[Wesp5]

I find this hard to believe just from looking at the dev team. No way any of them were competent at anything other than talk no jutsu

Paradox made a bad situation worse, that's what happened. From too hands-off to too hands-on as that one glassdoor review about Paradox put it.

Indeed. My sources also critized HSL, but I tried their mulitplayer game "Blacklight: Retribution" before they shut it down to work on Bloodlines 2 and it was quite solid. But not a single player RPG of course...

 

[Grunker]

Are you mentally stuck in 2013 where Brian Fargo is still able to convince people that Bad Games happen due to Evil Publishers, or did you just fall in the pot full of copium as kids like some Current Year neckbeard version of Obelix?

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

A rare instance of cosmic justice

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-release-date

Guys here is an interesting new link about this game, most of the information we already know but it provides a nice sequence of events around the timelines and problems experienced around development
I still believe this game will be released but Im not confidant

 

[Harthwain]

I still believe this game will be released but Im not confidant

Eh, it will probably be released. But a few years down the line and as a different game than what we saw.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Releasing it would be terrible. Firstly, we all know it would bomb spectacularly and kill this already struggling also-ran franchise. Secondly, and more importantly, it would turn other publishers off urban fantasy for another two decades.

If Paradox just cancels it, then their franchise will still die but it won’t turn the genre into poison for other developers. At least not any more so than Paradox’s other titles have.

 

[Harthwain]

Releasing it would be terrible. Firstly, we all know it would bomb spectacularly and kill this already struggling also-ran franchise.

They have to release it, because they took pre-orders and built hype around the game. Canceling now it would equal PR-suicide for Paradox as the fanboys wouldn't forgive them this disappointment.

Secondly, and more importantly, it would turn other publishers off urban fantasy for another two decades.

I don't buy that argument. After all we did get Dishonored, which spawned a sequel. If nobody is doing urban fantasy games it's not because there is a problem with the genre itself, but that other types of games may come off as easier to market/sell or are more interesting projects for developers to focus on.

If Paradox just cancels it, then their franchise will still die but it won’t turn the genre into poison for other developers. At least not any more so than Paradox’s other titles have.

A shitty game won't be good, but people will get over it eventually. And there is a possibility it will be only mediocre, and therefore easier for people to swallow when Paradox pushes it out. "Poison for other developers"? You're talking like there are many urban fantasy games - there are not. So there is nothing to poison, really.

 

[Grunker]

Firstly, we all know it would bomb spectacularly

I dunno. A surprising amount of my non-RPG playing friends have fond memories of Bloodlines. At the very least, investors are going to want to a return on their investment if at all possible - meaning release if at all feasible.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

Releasing it would be terrible. Firstly, we all know it would bomb spectacularly and kill this already struggling also-ran franchise. Secondly, and more importantly, it would turn other publishers off urban fantasy for another two decades.

If Paradox just cancels it, then their franchise will still die but it won’t turn the genre into poison for other developers. At least not any more so than Paradox’s other titles have.

Not releasing it would be so much worse. For starters, Paradox is easily looking at their biggest payday ever so of course it will release. This games launch would easily eclipse CK3 or V3. They’re known for that grand strategy stuff anyway so it’s not like WoD flopping would damage them all that much.

Also not sure why others would be turned off from “urban fantasy” if this game sucks hard. Clearly there’s a lot of interest in this title. I don’t know how Bloodhunt is doing but Paradox can clearly do a soft reboot if need be. Plus the inescapable PR nightmare of canceling it would turn them into more of a laughing stock than they are already.

If anything, another studio can go “oh look Paradox totally squandered this opportunity, let’s do something similar except not royally fuck it up.” Different situation but Konami inexplicably fucking Silent Hills up gave Capcom the spotlight for RE7.

Fredrik Wester has already confirmed they’ve already licensed out WoD to other third party studios anyway.

Plus Japan has very popular “urban fantasy” games like the Persona series. Ghostwire Tokyo is also a thing. Not Japanese but Deathloop and Redfall. Disco Elysium. I’m sure ZA/UM’s got another point and click adventure game on the way.

 

[Herumor]

About it not being Paradox's fault, I have heard details to the contrary that I'm not allowed to talk about though...

Why? Will it narrow down the identity of your source, thus effectively blacklisting them from the industry?

 

[Wesp5]

About it not being Paradox's fault, I have heard details to the contrary that I'm not allowed to talk about though...

Why? Will it narrow down the identity of your source, thus effectively blacklisting them from the industry?

I don't know, but they told me to not say anything to the public and I will honor that.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Fredrik Wester has already confirmed they’ve already licensed out WoD to other third party studios anyway.

Is the brand name recognition even worth it anymore? Paradox has been whoring out this IP for years to recapture the “success” of Bloodlines and failing. All of their games so far have been forgettable and mediocre at best.

EDIT: Also, didn’t they cancel approving new project in order to focus on DLC? Has that been reversed?

 

[Cricket McBangle]

Fredrik Wester has already confirmed they’ve already licensed out WoD to other third party studios anyway.

Is the brand name recognition even worth it anymore? Paradox has been whoring out this IP for years to recapture the “success” of Bloodlines and failing. All of their games so far have been forgettable and mediocre at best.

EDIT: Also, didn’t they cancel approving new project in order to focus on DLC? Has that been reversed?

Who cares. If the games are good, great. If not, don’t get them.

And no, they’re not canceled. Hunter The Reckoning is getting a game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

you rpg nerds may not know this but this is actually the fourth+ time that paradox was scammed out of millions of dollars by a modder tier development team. twice with actual modders of their games, one of which turned out to be a portuguese schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur, once with feargus 'he who de-owners' urukheart, and now with a seattle no-name team whose only achievement is making an fps nobody knows about.

so what i'm trying to say is that paradox is actually a money laundering operation.

After releasing Hearts of Iron in 2002, Paradox began development on Victoria while contracting out work on Crusader Kings to their Russian publisher/localizer Snowball. Although the Russian lead kept posting that his team was "one sushi dinner" away from making major progress on the game, it eventually became apparent that development had stalled, and Paradox quietly reclaimed control of it.

Not sure how much money was wasted by Paradox, though.

 

[Delterius]

Russian publisher/localizer Snowball

a russian company called snowball it's like they are asking to be scammed

 

[whydoibother]

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

To be fair, the game that was revealed BEFORE Paradox started firing people didn't look very good. It seems to me like a bad game was being made, so the publisher started swinging around the banhammer, which frequently results in a bad game being made as well. We'll see, looks like they basically rebooted the project, maybe it will actually turn out well.

lol

lmao

 

[Demo.Graph]

Russian publisher/localizer Snowball

a russian company called snowball it's like they are asking to be scammed

Snowball was a decent publisher in the 00s. They've localized hundreds of games and developed several dozens.

 

[Delterius]

Russian publisher/localizer Snowball

a russian company called snowball it's like they are asking to be scammed

Snowball was a decent publisher in the 00s. They've localized hundreds of games and developed several dozens.

next you'll tell me a french company called du fromage are heroes of software preservation and that you have a bridge on the rhine to sell me

 

[Wesp5]

Paradox do in fact share some of the blame, since Ebba Ljungerud did the stereotypical new-asshole-ceo move of putting her stamp on the title by changing the parameters mid-development (which Mitsoda and Pal ignored until Paradox grew angry and fed up enough to fire them for insubordination). The good news is that Ebba eventually got fired for causing this mess too, everyone got what they deserved.

To be fair, the game that was revealed BEFORE Paradox started firing people didn't look very good.

The demo of the beginning of the game that I was shown was good enough to give the Bloodlines feeling aplenty! I never understood why they didn't make that public later, instead of a rather boring quest for a Nosferatu living among bums.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Are you still looking forward to this game's release now that the original dev rendition was discarded though, Wesp5?

 

[whydoibother]

Are you still looking forward to this game's release now that the original dev rendition was discarded though, Wesp5?

I am, even though I should know better. Yet another triumph of the heart over the mind.