Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Turn_BASED]

Or took an oath to only fight without armor/weapons.

This is really interesting to me. An unarmed/monk-style space marine that punches xenos to death would be very fun.

 

[Joyvankek]

A few questions:

1) Will I be able to have a Space Marine in my party?
2) Will I be able to have a Sister of some kind my party?
3) Will the Space Marine and the Sister be able to bang?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Vast majority of SM don't have any attraction to sex. So unless SoB will try to rape SM. Which wouldn't end well for her. Chance for that is close to 0.
But if you want to have degeneracy relationship, you'll have a female eldar in your party. So if bestiality is what floats your boat then, possibly, Owlcat got you covered.

 

[Decado]

RE: Balancing an actual Space Marine for a party, I asked this weeks ago and someone mentioned that SMs were occasionally encountered in Rogue Trader. But my instinct is that your average SM would be vastly overpowered unless he was paired with higher-leveled characters. This isn't a problem, per se. If you take a party-based RPG like Pillars and imagine that in a fight of, say, Zahua vs Aloth, Zahua is "overpowered" in the sense that he would probably wreck Aloth in 10 seconds. But they don't fight each other so it's not a concern; encounter balance is the real issue here, not party balance.

From there, I wonder how to balance combat encounters when you have an SM in the party. I'm not saying it can't be done (I hope it can be) but it does strike me as difficult. Because in one-to-one combat, they are at the very high end of effectiveness.

 

[Peachcurl]

RE: Balancing an actual Space Marine for a party, I asked this weeks ago and someone mentioned that SMs were occasionally encountered in Rogue Trader. But my instinct is that your average SM would be vastly overpowered unless he was paired with higher-leveled characters. This isn't a problem, per se. If you take a party-based RPG like Pillars and imagine that in a fight of, say, Zahua vs Aloth, Zahua is "overpowered" in the sense that he would probably wreck Aloth in 10 seconds. But they don't fight each other so it's not a concern; encounter balance is the real issue here, not party balance.

But then, the issue is that choosing your party composition starts to have a drastic effect on difficulty. While you are right that hypothetical 1vs1 balance between two characters is irrelevant, it still matters how much power/utility a certain character adds to the party. So I think your conclusion would only work out for games with fixed parties.

 

[KateMicucci]

1) Will I be able to have a Space Marine in my party?

Having a space marine in your party would be awful. OwlCat would need to either nerf them a lot or every single character will be worthless. Is stated that a single Space Marine is worth hundreds if not thousands, of regular human soldiers. Imagine in AD&D, having a lv 12 guy and the rest of the party, lv 1~3. That is what it means to have a space marine alongside even the most powerful regular humans. Imagine playing with him and skipping turns with everyone else. That would be the Rogue Trader gameplay.

In WH40k - DarkTide, you can play as a sanctioned psyker, a ogryn, a veteran marksman or a zealot. Far above regular soldiers but still far below Adeptus Astartes. I hope that Rogue Trader will have a similar "power level" for charname + companions.

In the tabletop, a marine got +10 to every stat (out of 100). A normal person would only get +10 to the one stat associated with their class. So, a space marine would be just as charismatic as a priest, but good at everything else too. The marines also got some other important bonuses I don't remember. The way I remember the game, normal humans were mostly useless except they were ok at one or two things they specialized in and stacked bonuses for, and marines could actually pass skill checks.

I didn't enjoy playing with space marine characters because they were better at everything, but since then I've adjusted my attitude to power imbalances in a party.

 

[Decado]

The only real answer to this problem is to make a party-based RPG that is full of Space Marines. If anyone from OwlCat is reading this thread (Owlcat_Eyler ) I will sell you my game idea for $1.00 if you let me write it.

 

[KateMicucci]

Oh and space marines were also stealthier than normal humans.

 

[Cryomancer]

Only if I can play as a Librarian.

 

[Tyranicon]

As other people have said, plenty of baseline humans (IG heroes, SoB, inquisitors, etc) on tabletop have better stats than standard marines. Lorewise, even a basic human could outfight an Astartes. Ciaphas Cain himself kills at least one chaos space marine in a sword duel (CSMs, while being retarded, are still superhumans with thousands of years of fighting experience), and his assistent Jurgen kills one with a meltagun. There's also that hilarious meme of an Elysian kamikazing one with a grenade.

Astartes are just augmented humans in fancy armor. Rogue Traders and their retinue are super-wealthy, elite combatants that can afford the best gear available. The disparity between their fighting prowess is not the huge gap it may seem.

Likely the Space Wolf here will just be very tanky compared to the other party members.

 

[Owlcat_Eyler]

Owlcat_Eyler Can we get some confirmation on this? Space Marines are admittedly very powerful and it would be setting inconsistent for them to be even close to the same power level as most of the people in the party. The idea to have the Space Marine nerfed in some way would be best. Without armor is decent, although poisoned would be great as well. Perhaps the poison interferes with the Marines ability to neural link with their power armor, which as far as I know is necessary for a Space Marine to actually use it?

I'm not sure I can answer, but I'll try to find out

 

[razvedchiki]

it will make sense to have space marines as companions if you are fighting super duper mobs, like necrons.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Alpharius]

Eh probably unpopular opinion but they can easily handwave this no issue

We have A LOT of tactical and RTS game set in Warhammer 40k where IG can kick the SPESH MAHREEN arse, I don't see any reason to be anal about muh muscled man in a tin suit have to BE WORTH 100 MAN OR GAME IS SHIIIIIITEEEEEEEE

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.

 

[ItsChon]

As other people have said, plenty of baseline humans (IG heroes, SoB, inquisitors, etc) on tabletop have better stats than standard marines. Lorewise, even a basic human could outfight an Astartes. Ciaphas Cain himself kills at least one chaos space marine in a sword duel (CSMs, while being retarded, are still superhumans with thousands of years of fighting experience), and his assistent Jurgen kills one with a meltagun. There's also that hilarious meme of an Elysian kamikazing one with a grenade.

Astartes are just augmented humans in fancy armor. Rogue Traders and their retinue are super-wealthy, elite combatants that can afford the best gear available. The disparity between their fighting prowess is not the huge gap it may seem.

Likely the Space Wolf here will just be very tanky compared to the other party members.

When that happens, it's either because the human is augmented or we are seeing some shit writing (which Warhammer is full of). A Space Marine is capable of swinging a sword many times more powerful than a human could ever hope to block, and that's not even to mention the fact that they can hit speeds of thirty to forty five miles per hour in their fucking armor. Warhammer is filled with inconsistencies so there are plenty of examples of Space Marines being unstoppable to a ridiculous degree, as well as examples of them basically being slightly augmented humans in fancy armor as you said. When you look at the actual setting though and the way they "should" be, it doesn't make sense for them to not be significantly superior to human soldiers, while still being vulnerable in a sense.

Theoretically it could be possible to balance encounters around him, but I'd argue that would require so much focus that the game would essentially turn into balancing each encounter around one of your companions, which doesn't make sense.

 

[Tyranicon]

As other people have said, plenty of baseline humans (IG heroes, SoB, inquisitors, etc) on tabletop have better stats than standard marines. Lorewise, even a basic human could outfight an Astartes. Ciaphas Cain himself kills at least one chaos space marine in a sword duel (CSMs, while being retarded, are still superhumans with thousands of years of fighting experience), and his assistent Jurgen kills one with a meltagun. There's also that hilarious meme of an Elysian kamikazing one with a grenade.

Astartes are just augmented humans in fancy armor. Rogue Traders and their retinue are super-wealthy, elite combatants that can afford the best gear available. The disparity between their fighting prowess is not the huge gap it may seem.

Likely the Space Wolf here will just be very tanky compared to the other party members.

When that happens, it's either because the human is augmented or we are seeing some shit writing (which Warhammer is full of). A Space Marine is capable of swinging a sword many times more powerful than a human could ever hope to block, and that's not even to mention the fact that they can hit speeds of thirty to forty five miles per hour in their fucking armor. Warhammer is filled with inconsistencies so there are plenty of examples of Space Marines being unstoppable to a ridiculous degree, as well as examples of them basically being slightly augmented humans in fancy armor as you said. When you look at the actual setting though and the way they "should" be, it doesn't make sense for them to not be significantly superior to human soldiers, while still being vulnerable in a sense.

Theoretically it could be possible to balance encounters around him, but I'd argue that would require so much focus that the game would essentially turn into balancing each encounter around one of your companions, which doesn't make sense.

I'm not disagreeing with you (especially not with the shit writing), but I'm saying that Rogue Traders (that own entire planets) and their retinue aren't standard humans and they can afford top-tier gear. I'm assuming one of two things:

1. The Space Wolf actually does outclass the party significantly and is only available on a temporary/story basis.

or

2. By the time he joins, your party is already strong enough to the point where some furry viking in power armor isn't exactly a balance issue.

As Parsimonious cook says, in the pnp the starting levels for Rogue Trader and Deathwatch are not too far apart anyways.

​

 

[ItsChon]

1. The Space Wolf actually does outclass the party significantly and is only available on a temporary/story basis.

or

2. By the time he joins, your party is already strong enough to the point where some furry viking in power armor isn't exactly a balance issue.

As @Parsimonious cook says, in the pnp the starting levels for Rogue Trader and Deathwatch are not too far apart anyways.

I mean fair enough here. I guess we wait and see what Owlcat Eyler has to say before we chimp out. If he joins later on in the game I can see this not being nearly as much of an issue, and if he's available on a temporary/story basis I can see this working as well. That being said, I see no issue with having a Space Marine that is slightly nerfed either, but oh well.

 

[Storyfag]

I guess we wait and see what Owlcat Eyler has to say before we chimp out.

But we shall chimp out either way

 

[Cryomancer]

About adeptus astartes being humans, sure, they are. Just like a 1.7 kg toy poodle and a 45kg dogo argentino are both "dogs". Just like the "dog", Space Marines are humans made for a specific propose(Xenos extermination). With their bodies vastly enhanced using futuristic technology.

That said, I"m not a balance cultist. I agree with OwlCat when they said that balance is a tool to improve the fun, if something is unbalanced, under or overpowered but fun, that should be maintained. My concern is not that having SM marines in your party will be unbalanced. My concern is that it will gonna make all the history and combat revolves around him or that will gonna lead to power creep.

 

[Storyfag]

SM marines

No, best not to dwell too much on it. That way lies the Prince of Excess, and I would not attract xirs attentions.

 

[Reinhardt]

space sm marines would feel right at home in computer role-playing crpg games!

 

[lightbane]

^These are Slaaneshi Marines already.
Regarding Sphees Mahrines, in Pnp they were OP, no exceptions. The "fix" is to have hordes being able to hit them without giving the Marines the ability to dodge, while non-SM CAN dodge. That and have bigger enemies for the Marines. What happens when the Marine PCs fall and the enemy is still standing? Welp, that's your problem.

 

[Reinhardt]

that's pretty much how they were in salvation's reach

 

[ERYFKRAD]

As other people have said, plenty of baseline humans (IG heroes, SoB, inquisitors, etc) on tabletop have better stats than standard marines. Lorewise, even a basic human could outfight an Astartes. Ciaphas Cain himself kills at least one chaos space marine in a sword duel (CSMs, while being retarded, are still superhumans with thousands of years of fighting experience), and his assistent Jurgen kills one with a meltagun. There's also that hilarious meme of an Elysian kamikazing one with a grenade

I don't know of any marine that matches the courage and faith of St. Ollanius Pious.
Owlcat_Eyler ps. Have a at least one shirtless fistfight atop an imperial cathedral and your game will be a hit.
Worked for the Yakuza games after all.

 

[mediocrepoet]

space sm marines would feel right at home in computer role-playing crpg games!

Looking forward to the Biowarean S&M Marines.

 

[Reinhardt]

Have a at least one shirtless fistfight atop a MOVING imperial cathedral and your game will be a hit.

dis