Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader - turn-based Warhammer 40k RPG from Owlcat Games

[gurugeorge]

I think everyone can agree that the worst part of the game is the crappy custom ruleset.
While bugs can be fixed, it is unlikely that the system will be completely changed.

What's wrong with the ruleset? Why isn't it just the numbers/percentages that need massaging?

 

[ArchAngel]

I think everyone can agree that the worst part of the game is the crappy custom ruleset.
While bugs can be fixed, it is unlikely that the system will be completely changed.

What's wrong with the ruleset? Why isn't it just the numbers/percentages that need massaging?

1. All the extra turns/actions is shit. Mostly for the flow of combat and then for balance reasons.
2. Too many levels and as effect too many skills and damage modifiers
3. Psyker being subclass instead of full class.
4. Weapons balance still crap. Big weapons not nearly scary enough. Skills give too much extra damage to weapons. Skill should be about modifying accuracy and RoF, not damage of weapons. At best critical hit stuff to show you are better at hiting the soft spot of your target but that goes under accuracy stuff. We shit on PoE letting you use Might to give spells bonus damage and ranged weapons bonus damage like crazy but nobody complained here about 20 different modifiers to ranged damage..

This ruleset is extremely gamified when something more realistic and grimdark would fit WH40k better.

 

[Camel]

Hopefully they redo it for their next ... RPG.

The Codexers and their expectations of Owlcat.
1. Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
2. Pathfinder: WotR.
3. Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader.

 

[Stoned Ape]

1. All the extra turns/actions is shit. Mostly for the flow of combat and then for balance reasons.
2. Too many levels and as effect too many skills and damage modifiers
3. Psyker being subclass instead of full class.
4. Weapons balance still crap. Big weapons not nearly scary enough. Skills give too much extra damage to weapons. Skill should be about modifying accuracy and RoF, not damage of weapons. At best critical hit stuff to show you are better at hiting the soft spot of your target but that goes under accuracy stuff. We shit on PoE letting you use Might to give spells bonus damage and ranged weapons bonus damage like crazy but nobody complained here about 20 different modifiers to ranged damage..

This ruleset is extremely gamified when something more realistic and grimdark would fit WH40k better.

I agree with everything written by ArchAngel above.

Additionally races in game should better reflect their lore. For example there should be no Aeldari or Drukhari with a greater health pool than a Space Marine. Space Elves should be fleet, agile, and evasive, but also fragile.

I also think Owlcat should have included something like a Fate Point system and reduced the health pools across the board.

 

[GloomFrost]

Also any chance to have some additional dialogue options based on you homeworld and origin? Especially as Commissar, Psyker or Priest. It was one of the biggest letdowns for me.

 

[Tyranicon]

-tries to get into the pathfinder games- Ewwww, writing/characters are bad but combat and builds are alright.

-tries to get into rogue trader- Ewww, the combat and builds are horrible but the writing/characters are okay.

Wtf.

 

[Jinn]

-tries to get into the pathfinder games- Ewwww, writing/characters are bad but combat and builds are alright.

-tries to get into rogue trader- Ewww, the combat and builds are horrible but the writing/characters are okay.

Wtf.

Stop trying. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

Sounds like the wait on this one continues. Hopefully there's a nice sale when the EE drops.

 

[Rhobar121]

-tries to get into the pathfinder games- Ewwww, writing/characters are bad but combat and builds are alright.

-tries to get into rogue trader- Ewww, the combat and builds are horrible but the writing/characters are okay.

Wtf.

In pathfinder they had a system based on 3.5e and they still broke it due to inflation.
They tried to do something themselves with RT and it turned out to be shit.
The moral is that Owlcat cannot design systems.

 

[Tyranicon]

Stop trying. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

I'm unfamiliar with the original tabletop rules, but I feel like if they stuck closer to them, I would've liked this game much more (after the bugs fixes ofc). From what multiple people have stated in this thread, it seemed like Owlcat upscaled things a lot from the tabletop.

In pathfinder they had a system based on 3.5e and they still broke it due to inflation.
They tried to do something themselves with RT and it turned out to be shit.
The moral is that Owlcat cannot design systems.

At this point I'm unsure if it's bad design or if they fundamentally prefer build-heavy, loophole lawyering type of gameplay. Where the whole point of the game is to break the system (or at least aggressively exploit it) so you can round 1 KO the entire enemy encounter. That is a popular niche in tabletop RPGs after all.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Stop trying. Nothing will ever satisfy you.

I'm unfamiliar with the original tabletop rules, but I feel like if they stuck closer to them, I would've liked this game much more (after the bugs fixes ofc). From what multiple people have stated in this thread, it seemed like Owlcat upscaled things a lot from the tabletop.

In pathfinder they had a system based on 3.5e and they still broke it due to inflation.
They tried to do something themselves with RT and it turned out to be shit.
The moral is that Owlcat cannot design systems.

At this point I'm unsure if it's bad design or if they fundamentally prefer build-heavy, loophole lawyering type of gameplay. Where the whole point of the game is to break the system (or at least aggressively exploit it) so you can round 1 KO the entire enemy encounter. That is a popular niche in tabletop RPGs after all.

It's one of the oldest niches as well. But yeah, I think they're mostly full of power gaming murderhobos. I'll take that over a Biowhore storyfag any day, but YMMV.

 

[scytheavatar]

-tries to get into the pathfinder games- Ewwww, writing/characters are bad but combat and builds are alright.

-tries to get into rogue trader- Ewww, the combat and builds are horrible but the writing/characters are okay.

Wtf.

In pathfinder they had a system based on 3.5e and they still broke it due to inflation.
They tried to do something themselves with RT and it turned out to be shit.
The moral is that Owlcat cannot design systems.

3.5e/PF were already broken systems........... heck nothing from the Owlcat PF games were more OP than dual-class warrior/mage or Wild Mage builds in BG2.

 

[gurugeorge]

I think everyone can agree that the worst part of the game is the crappy custom ruleset.
While bugs can be fixed, it is unlikely that the system will be completely changed.

What's wrong with the ruleset? Why isn't it just the numbers/percentages that need massaging?

1. All the extra turns/actions is shit. Mostly for the flow of combat and then for balance reasons.
2. Too many levels and as effect too many skills and damage modifiers
3. Psyker being subclass instead of full class.
4. Weapons balance still crap. Big weapons not nearly scary enough. Skills give too much extra damage to weapons. Skill should be about modifying accuracy and RoF, not damage of weapons. At best critical hit stuff to show you are better at hiting the soft spot of your target but that goes under accuracy stuff. We shit on PoE letting you use Might to give spells bonus damage and ranged weapons bonus damage like crazy but nobody complained here about 20 different modifiers to ranged damage..

This ruleset is extremely gamified when something more realistic and grimdark would fit WH40k better.

The only thing I really agree with there is the "too many levels." Having to level up every 5 minutes for small increments is a bit annoying, I'll grant that, but that's not really a system problem, you could telescope all those levels into a third of the number without changing the system and most of the tiny incremental differences would collapse into more substantial and meaningful ones.

I like extra action/turn tricks in my vidya (i.e. it's perhaps not good in P&P, I dunno, but in CRPGs it's fine), looking for "free" moves, etc., is definitely part of the fun of CRPGs, they should reflect growing skill and abilities.

I'm not familiar enough with the lore re Psykers to speak to that, and weapon balance is just a numbers thing.

Skill should tie in with damage (e.g. in skilled hands, such as John Wick's, a pencil will do just as much damage as a knife ). The only reason it was tied to weapons in P&P, it seems to me, was to make things simple and manageable for quick head/P&P calculations in that context, but again, in CRPGs, that simplification isn't necessary, the rules can afford to be more simulationist, and in terms of simulation innate qualities (strength, agility/speed, intelligence, perceptiveness) plus trained skill are king for both accuracy and damage, weapon quality far secondary. For a CRPG, you still want the simulation to be somewhat simplified and abstracted - e.g. you're not including friction calculations, etc. - but the formulae can afford to be a bit more intricate and more concretely simulationist than in P&P. It's the difference between having to make quick, manageable calculations in a friend-wrangling social context, and having the leisure to get out a calculator and stroke your beard for a minute or two in the privacy of your own home.

(The above re. damage on weapons reminds me of a video on the HEMA thread a while ago about how, when you actually look at the antiques, rich peoples' and great warriors' weapons weren't that much better made than the most basic ones - i.e. the damage difference between quality of weapons was never as great as it's made out to be in P&P, IOW in reality nothing would be more than +1, if that.)

 

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2186680/view/4125931766233722618

Patch 1.1.40 is live!

Warhammer 40000: Rogue Trader Patch 1.1.40


Lord Captains! You are expected on the bridge, a new update has arrived.

Check https://steamcommunity.com/app/2186680/discussions/0/4027970580228219058/ for up-to-date information on known issues and upcoming patches.


Please be aware of plot spoilers in the description below!


Narrative

• Fixed an error that caused the story in Act III to become stuck if the quests there were done in a certain order;
• Ulfar will now armour himself before joining the Lord Captain's crew;
• Fixed a case where Jae's quest could get blocked after a second attempt to join the line;
• The argument between
  
  ;
• Fixed multiple remaining cases where the dialogue could still break in Heinrix's personal quest (Price of Humanity);
• Marazhai's
  
  will now automatically load the bridge when it happens, rather than waiting for the player to visit the bridge;
• Fixed a broken option in a dialogue with
  
  in Act II, which could cause some dialogues in Act IV to break;
• Fixed a case where the Yrliet's quest at
  
  did not count as finished under some circumstances;
• Combat no longer starts at Quetza Temer, if the player has managed to reach a peaceful resolution;
• In some cases, the Classified Information quest could not be completed - fixed;
• Fixed a bug that could sometimes prevent Cassia from talking to the Lord Captain after her first quest was complete, blocking the quest;
• Cassia didn't have a dominant Conviction, which could cause some of her dialogues to break - fixed;
• Fixed an issue where leaving the palace during coronation and returning could cause Pasqal to disappear, blocking further progress;

Mechanics

• Ulfar now correctly passes his turn after dying from attack of opportunity;
• Fixed a few cases of incorrect level requirement calculation, causing some talent to be unavailable despite meeting the requirements;
• Attempting to move a prone unit during preparation round could cause the combat to break - fixed;
• Leader's "No Respite" talent no longer works on movement points, as intended;
• Leader's "No Respite" talent no longer gves stats for AP gained by allies by themselves;

Items

• The quest item looted from
  
  in Act III could sometimes disappear from the inventory after saving and loading the game - fixed;
• Added a Pyromancy psyker staff to the Rykad Minoris location;
• It is no longer possible to spawn multiple Cherubs;

Locations

• Fixed a case where if Abelard was healing the Lord Captain while standing very close to the gates of the Warrant Chamber in Prologue, the mighty Senechal's silhouette would not allow any cultists to enter the room, so the combat never started;
• Added the exit location marker on the minimap for Jae's second quest;
• Fixed interaction range for the throne at Dargonus;

Visual

• Fixed a case where any equipment wasn't displayed on Ulfar after his recruitment until the party moved to another location;
• Fixed incorrect sheathed weapon position for female Aeldari;
• Fixed the issues with armour painting which could cause incorrect colors to be displayed;
• Fixed a case of companions sometimes becoming invisible in the inventory screen;

User Interface

• Tooltips for some abilities in space combat didn't expand correctly - fixed;
• Selector frame couldn't reach the bottom option in the quest journal - fixed;
• Fixed multiple cases where the dialogue would appear completely empty;
• Fixed incorrect calculations of damage from toxin applied by Splinter Pistol, Modified Splinter Pistol or Violent Splinter Cannon;
• Fixed some cases where abilities from a weapon that was switched or unequipped, remained available;

Miscellaneous

• Added a few missing founder names to credits and the Shrine of Remembrance;
• 
  no longer attack endlessy if their Final Strike was parried;
• Fixed SharedStringConverter for mod support;
• Explorator vendor is now once again available in the beginning of Act III through the High Factotum;

 

[Jermu]

finally managed to fix no respite (maybe) I reported that shit few days after release

 

[mediocrepoet]

finally managed to fix no respite (maybe) I reported that shit few days after release

Don't worry. If it's anything like the Pathfinder patches, they'll break it again for you soon.

Anyway, how is this thing these days? Worth picking up or wait another 6 months or so yet?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

Lord Captain!
Sometimes the plethora of options can be a little overwhelming. So let’s go through the character creation process together!

 

[The Wall]

WOKE SHIT

 

[user]

I think everyone can agree that the worst part of the game is the crappy custom ruleset.
While bugs can be fixed, it is unlikely that the system will be completely changed.

What's wrong with the ruleset? Why isn't it just the numbers/percentages that need massaging?

1. All the extra turns/actions is shit. Mostly for the flow of combat and then for balance reasons.
2. Too many levels and as effect too many skills and damage modifiers
3. Psyker being subclass instead of full class.
4. Weapons balance still crap. Big weapons not nearly scary enough. Skills give too much extra damage to weapons. Skill should be about modifying accuracy and RoF, not damage of weapons. At best critical hit stuff to show you are better at hiting the soft spot of your target but that goes under accuracy stuff. We shit on PoE letting you use Might to give spells bonus damage and ranged weapons bonus damage like crazy but nobody complained here about 20 different modifiers to ranged damage..

This ruleset is extremely gamified when something more realistic and grimdark would fit WH40k better.

Definitely agree with 1. - afaik the "bring it down" change in the recent big patch seems great.
I know most won't agree, but I do love the number of levels, number crunching and modifiers. It's not just about frequent reward dopamine, it's also more fine grained character control and variety. A lot of the perks are interesting and play well together... others don't, but it's a matter of formulas and balance.
Sanctioned Psyker (plus its specialty) is the origin with the most unique stuff (would like the other origins to have more options/perks/etc tha differentiates playstyle, because until now, I am always compelled to roll a psyker), but I would also have liked it to have more synergy with the archetypes.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think everyone can agree that the worst part of the game is the crappy custom ruleset.
While bugs can be fixed, it is unlikely that the system will be completely changed.

What's wrong with the ruleset? Why isn't it just the numbers/percentages that need massaging?

1. All the extra turns/actions is shit. Mostly for the flow of combat and then for balance reasons.
2. Too many levels and as effect too many skills and damage modifiers
3. Psyker being subclass instead of full class.
4. Weapons balance still crap. Big weapons not nearly scary enough. Skills give too much extra damage to weapons. Skill should be about modifying accuracy and RoF, not damage of weapons. At best critical hit stuff to show you are better at hiting the soft spot of your target but that goes under accuracy stuff. We shit on PoE letting you use Might to give spells bonus damage and ranged weapons bonus damage like crazy but nobody complained here about 20 different modifiers to ranged damage..

This ruleset is extremely gamified when something more realistic and grimdark would fit WH40k better.

Definitely agree with 1. - afaik the "bring it down" change in the recent big patch seems great.
I know most won't agree, but I do love the number of levels, number crunching and modifiers. It's not just about frequent reward dopamine, it's also more fine grained character control and variety. A lot of the perks are interesting and play well together... others don't, but it's a matter of formulas and balance.
Sanctioned Psyker (plus its specialty) is the origin with the most unique stuff (would like the other origins to have more options/perks/etc tha differentiates playstyle, because until now, I am always compelled to roll a psyker), but I would also have liked it to have more synergy with the archetypes.

Bring it down change didn't do shit for the flow of combat, also didn't do much for balance. I never abused any of that shit and all the extra turns shit was beyond irritating. BTW, Bring it down is like one of 6 ways to get extra turns and it is probably the least irritating one. Everything except Bring it Down needs to be nuked if they really need to have some extra turn shit. Bounty Hunter and Master Tactician and Heroic action ones need to be removed as well as extra ones given from Officer talents.

 

[ArchAngel]

Anyone played with Cassia after the big patch? Can she still use her powers, powers go on cooldown, give Bring it Down to anyone, that person does their actions, control comes back to Cassia and now all her powers are back from cooldown?
IF this shit is still possible they fixed nothing. You can use same shit with any officer/pysker as well (like ones you make).

 

[Jermu]

I only tested final boss and cassia could still nuke it in 1 round with officer
its better than before used to be 1 turn

 

[Erebus]

The "Price of Humanity" quest has possibly been fixed. Not quite sure, as I just got kicked out of the planet and can't return to it. Apparently, Heindrick wasn't supposed to give me the quest in the first place (because I blew up his demonic computer). That would have been good to know earlier.

For about five minutes, I naively considered trying another quest. As I travelled through the Warp, I triggered the event where I get attacked by demons and cultists in my quarters. First turn, I hunker down and wait for them to approach. Second turn, Abelard shows up and slaughters several of them. Third turn, Argenta shows up but she can't move. WTF ? Abelard can no longer move either, neither can I, and the enemies are no longer moving. Fourth turn, Cassia shows up and she can't move even though she has a bajillion Movement Point. I use all the special abilities that should trigger a move : Charge, Blitz Stratagem, etc. Nothing works. We're all just stuck in place and unable to move.

I guess I'll give the game another try in 3 months. Or maybe 6 ?

 

[ArchAngel]

The "Price of Humanity" quest has possibly been fixed. Not quite sure, as I just got kicked out of the planet and can't return to it. Apparently, Heindrick wasn't supposed to give me the quest in the first place (because I blew up his demonic computer). That would have been good to know earlier.

For about five minutes, I naively considered trying another quest. As I travelled through the Warp, I triggered the event where I get attacked by demons and cultists in my quarters. First turn, I hunker down and wait for them to approach. Second turn, Abelard shows up and slaughters several of them. Third turn, Argenta shows up but she can't move. WTF ? Abelard can no longer move either, neither can I, and the enemies are no longer moving. Fourth turn, Cassia shows up and she can't move even though she has a bajillion Movement Point. I use all the special abilities that should trigger a move : Charge, Blitz Stratagem, etc. Nothing works. We're all just stuck in place and unable to move.

I guess I'll give the game another try in 3 months. Or maybe 6 ?

Yea that quest is super bugged. In my version I can move but nobody can attack with ranged weapons. Only my main and Abelard can attack, other could only stand back and cheer :D

 

[Dishonoredbr]

I like Ulfar. He's funny.