Wasteland Wasteland 2 Thread - Director's Cut

[Excidium II]

I never said that Fallout fans didn't back Wasteland 2. I said they were wrong to expect/demand "Fallout 3" instead of "Wasteland 2". That's still true.

It's not like it's an entire new paradigm of role-playing games.

Well - I assume you weren't on the official forums during W2's development, but there were many, many conversations there that started with the unspoken assumption, "Since this is supposed to be the real Fallout 3 and not actually a Wasteland sequel, the design must incorporate such-and-such," often in direct contradiction to the design and even story canon of Wasteland. Constant reminders were (and apparently still are) necessary that the two franchises are not the same, even as Wasteland incorporates Fallout elements to woo fans of the latter game.

It's funny though, considering how in the end the game turned out way more Fallout-like, specially with the GOTY edition making the systems even more like SPECIAL. The Wasteland elements are mostly superficial stuff like toasters and what not while the actual game is mostly Fallout

 

[Athelas]

If the combat turns out to be great in the director's cut, it won't be that much like Fallout.

I never said that Fallout fans didn't back Wasteland 2. I said they were wrong to expect/demand "Fallout 3" instead of "Wasteland 2".

We might've been wrong, but then again it was hyped that way.

Eh. Brian definitely mentioned Fallout quite a bit, but was always clear about Wasteland 2 being a sequel to Wasteland. He also mentioned games like Stonekeep and Icewind Dale, but nobody expected "the real Stonekeep II". On some level you guys were hearing what you wanted to hear instead of what was actually being said.

I suggest looking up the original campaign and Ctrl + F 'Fallout' to see how many times it's mentioned.

 

[Zombra]

It's funny though, considering how in the end the game turned out way more Fallout-like, specially with the GOTY edition. The Wasteland elements are mostly superficial setting stuff.

Heh, yeah. They did slant it way more towards Fallout gameplay than the Wasteland fans would have liked. But I still say that people who wanted Fallout instead of Wasteland were wrong

 

[Infinitron]

Mostly superficial setting stuff, plus the minor fact that it lets you create and control a full party, yeah

 

[Excidium II]

Mostly superficial setting stuff, plus the minor fact that it lets you create and control a full party, yeah

That's p. superficial, yes. Making your own dudes is hardly a game-defining feature

Besides it doesn't really make the game less fallout-like or add much to the game outside of simple combat tactics and puzzle gimmicks, in fact makes it worse by creating a bunch of useless skills just so you have the illusion of building different characters

 

[CryptRat]

That's p. superficial, yes. Making your own dudes is hardly a game-defining features

What?

 

[Excidium II]

What what?

 

[Athelas]

Mostly superficial setting stuff, plus the minor fact that it lets you create and control a full party, yeah

That's p. superficial, yes. Making your own dudes is hardly a game-defining feature

Fully controlled and customizable party vs. single character + A.I. controlled companions is a pretty big deal.

Of course, allowing a whole party to invest in stats and skills is somewhat detrimental to the appeal of a Fallout-type game where your character build is supposed to make your playthrough unique and distinct.

 

[Excidium II]

Well I'm sure when defining wasteland features "You can make your dudes" is high on the list because that's fairly unique to that game. I don't feel like I'm playing a fallout-like game when I only create my PC in a CRPG either.

Of course, allowing a whole party to invest in stats and skills is somewhat detrimental to the appeal of a Fallout-type game where your character build is supposed to make your playthrough unique and distinct.

That's because those games are poorly designed and treat skills as the solution to problems

 

[CryptRat]

It's very different. Outside combat you can basically do whatever you want, that doesn't depend on your build since you can develop everything (which is much worse) but in the other hand you gain full characterization of your characters for combat, from the beginning (which is much better).

 

[Excidium II]

Are you still talking about Wasteland 2?

 

[Zombra]

Director's Cut footage from the BTIV party Twitch stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/quill18/v/7297673
29:22-40:12
Commentary by Chris Keenan.

 

[veevoir]

Director's Cut footage from the BTIV party Twitch stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/quill18/v/7297673
29:22-40:12
Commentary by Chris Keenan.

Impressions:

First few seconds "Do you have Console ADHD and do not want to create a party in a game revolving around custom created party? A/B?".
Nice UI rework at character creation, +brownie points for clearly stating which skill level unlocks which perk. Nice addition.
Combat UI rework is also nice.

All the added stuff is great, maybe finally I'll manage to get through the game as a whole. Just please, for the love of RPGs, have more random encounter maps*! Because probably asking not to be railroaded with Prison quest may be too much.

 

[ArchAngel]

Director's Cut footage from the BTIV party Twitch stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/quill18/v/7297673
29:22-40:12
Commentary by Chris Keenan.

Impressions:

First few seconds "Do you have Console ADHD and do not want to create a party in a game revolving around custom created party? A/B?".
Nice UI rework at character creation, +brownie points for clearly stating which skill level unlocks which perk. Nice addition.
Combat UI rework is also nice.

All the added stuff is great, maybe finally I'll manage to get through the game as a whole. Just please, for the love of RPGs, have more random encounter maps*! Because probably asking not to be railroaded with Prison quest may be too much.

Someone in chat asked about more random encounter maps and they said not sure about specific number but they added at least 6 or 7 more maps and changed the current ones.

From what I seen so far, WL2DC will be 9/10 game. WL2 was to me 8/10 game.

 

[undecaf]

I guess one should ask are any of those random encounters additional neutral encounters (to add variety and flavor)? I don't remember seeing too many of those before.

 

[resilient sphere]

I'd just like to congratulate Wasteland 2 on being the thirty-seventh best roleplaying game of all time according to Rock Paper Shotgun, defeating almost the entire Ultima saga, every Atari/Amiga game ever released and its own revolutionary predecessor. Truly are we fortunate to live in this golden era of gaming where we can forsake the sacred cows of the past and take up with our new idols, poorly made Unity engine boredom trawlers where nothing stylistically meshes.

 

[ArchAngel]

I wonder how they addressed the complaints that skills and attributes are not connected.
I hope adding perks and giving them skill/attribute requirements is not it.

It was good to hear that now there will be much more hand placed loot and that loot in containers behind guards and traps will no longer be just a random roll.

 

[Infinitron]

AFAIK, the DC is not changing attributes or skills.

 

[ArchAngel]

AFAIK, the DC is not changing attributes or skills.

Is that 100% true? Do you have a quote?

 

[Infinitron]

AFAIK, the DC is not changing attributes or skills.

Is that 100% true? Do you have a quote?

I think I asked sea or Brother None about it months ago, and I haven't seen any evidence from any Kickstarter updates since then that the core character systems are being changed. They're adding the traits, perks and aimed shots, but it's really more of a content rebalance - better encounters, loot, etc.

 

[ArchAngel]

I remember something about Brute Force being changed, but don't remember the details. If they are making changes there, maybe there are more. Maybe they are not talking about it because those are minor changes compared to new stuff they added.

 

[Zombra]

I guess one should ask are any of those random encounters additional neutral encounters (to add variety and flavor)? I don't remember seeing too many of those before.

I doubt it, it hasn't been talked about that I've seen. Honestly I'm more excited about better variety in combat encounters

 

[undecaf]

I doubt it, it hasn't been talked about that I've seen. Honestly I'm more excited about better variety in combat encounters

Sure, I haven't either.

But this is actually one of those little gripes that I have (a sackfull of) with the game - in the same vein as with the junk items. In the long run, traversing the wastes became predictable and all in all unsurprising. I doubt a handful of new combat maps will offer a long term fix for that even if initially fun, seeing how big this game is and how much this covers the overall experience. A lot could (have) be(en) done to make these trips from place to place more interesting with a higher variety of things to run into. (And on a tangent, they could'e added an outdoorsman penalty for the faster map travel option.)

Be that as it may, though, at least they've done something to look forward to regarding this.

 

[Jimmious]

Can't wait to properly play this again. Never finished the second part

 

[Zombra]

I suggest looking up the original campaign and Ctrl + F 'Fallout' to see how many times it's mentioned.

Not half as many times as Wasteland.