Butthurt Wesp5's VtM: Bloodlines patch is the biggest poison in the RPG modding community

[Modron]

All of this could have been avoided if the Unofficial Patch was split into Unofficial Patch and Unofficial Restoration Mod.

Just use Tessera's patch. *sniggers*

 

[normie]

I really really can't forgive wesp for replacing the dialog investigation checks with perception/malk checks

 

[Skinwalker]

the Empire Arms receptionist is male, then I agree that making him bisexually open to seduction was the right choice. There are fewer opportunities for a male PC to use seduction than there are for the female.

So what? If you play as female, the woman in Giovanni mansion calls you a dyke and turns you down rudely. The Hollywood reviewer also flat out refuses. The fact that you can't seduce every gender with Seduction is a bonus for the game, not a flaw.

This. If the male receptionist has dialogue that rejects a male vampire's seduction, then it obviously shouldn't be rapelaced by making him gay.

 

[Semiurge]

the Empire Arms receptionist is male, then I agree that making him bisexually open to seduction was the right choice. There are fewer opportunities for a male PC to use seduction than there are for the female.

So what? If you play as female, the woman in Giovanni mansion calls you a dyke and turns you down rudely. The Hollywood reviewer also flat out refuses. The fact that you can't seduce every gender with Seduction is a bonus for the game, not a flaw.

This. If the male receptionist has dialogue that rejects a male vampire's seduction, then it obviously shouldn't be rapelaced by making him gay.

I don't mean all NPCs must be bisexual, just that there should be an equal number of opportunities to try seduction on them so that the talent isn't completely wasted on a male PC who likes to talk. But if suitable voice lines simply aren't there, or if there's only responses to a female PC then not much can be done.

Chunk is one example, he only has seduction responses for the female PC. Unfortunate cost cutting. Still better than if every NPC had the same neutral responses to it, but the devs should've recorded some more unique ones for turning down the other PC gender.

 

[Wesp5]

I really really can't forgive wesp for replacing the dialog investigation checks with perception/malk checks

The Malk checks were already in the original game and the Perception/Inspection checks were inconsistent. Some checks needed Inspection, some needed Perception. In the current patch everything is done with Inspection!

 

[Skinwalker]

[Perception] Doesn't that make the Perception stat useless?

 

[Modron]

[Perception] Doesn't that make the Perception stat useless?

[Inspection] Seems to make the Perception stat less useful doesn't it?

 

[Chippy]

He-hey! Wesp5 still patching Bloodlines. You sir are a dedicated Champion. Codex should have given him his own title by now.

 

[Skinwalker]

[Perception] Doesn't that make the Perception stat useless?

[Inspection] Seems to make the Perception stat less useful doesn't it?

[Dementation] I am Wesp, and my next fix will replace Janette and Therese with Andrei in a Japanese schoolgirl uniform, because it was clearly a mistake by Troika to not do this.

 

[Wesp5]

[Perception] Doesn't that make the Perception stat useless?

[Inspection] Seems to make the Perception stat less useful doesn't it?

The Inspection feat is composed out of the Perception stat and the Investigation stat so it basically changes nothing except making reaching the same conditions a little bit cheaper on the XP. Also the Perception stat is very useful already because it is also part of the Ranged Combat feat while the Investigation stat was basically useless before and is a little bit more useful now...

 

[jakkis]

I don't maybe like all Wesps changes either but maybe some of you should find out and fact check to know what you're talking about before whining so hard.

 

[jakkis]

the Empire Arms receptionist is male, then I agree that making him bisexually open to seduction was the right choice. There are fewer opportunities for a male PC to use seduction than there are for the female.

So what? If you play as female, the woman in Giovanni mansion calls you a dyke and turns you down rudely. The Hollywood reviewer also flat out refuses. The fact that you can't seduce every gender with Seduction is a bonus for the game, not a flaw.

This. If the male receptionist has dialogue that rejects a male vampire's seduction, then it obviously shouldn't be rapelaced by making him gay.

I don't mean all NPCs must be bisexual, just that there should be an equal number of opportunities to try seduction on them so that the talent isn't completely wasted on a male PC who likes to talk. But if suitable voice lines simply aren't there, or if there's only responses to a female PC then not much can be done.

Chunk is one example, he only has seduction responses for the female PC. Unfortunate cost cutting. Still better than if every NPC had the same neutral responses to it, but the devs should've recorded some more unique ones for turning down the other PC gender.

This game is made before OMGWTFBBQ+ people ruined media, there is no faggot toggle in the char creator, obviously a male char with seduction is straight and should only seduce teh babes.

 

[Semiurge]

the Empire Arms receptionist is male, then I agree that making him bisexually open to seduction was the right choice. There are fewer opportunities for a male PC to use seduction than there are for the female.

So what? If you play as female, the woman in Giovanni mansion calls you a dyke and turns you down rudely. The Hollywood reviewer also flat out refuses. The fact that you can't seduce every gender with Seduction is a bonus for the game, not a flaw.

This. If the male receptionist has dialogue that rejects a male vampire's seduction, then it obviously shouldn't be rapelaced by making him gay.

I don't mean all NPCs must be bisexual, just that there should be an equal number of opportunities to try seduction on them so that the talent isn't completely wasted on a male PC who likes to talk. But if suitable voice lines simply aren't there, or if there's only responses to a female PC then not much can be done.

Chunk is one example, he only has seduction responses for the female PC. Unfortunate cost cutting. Still better than if every NPC had the same neutral responses to it, but the devs should've recorded some more unique ones for turning down the other PC gender.

This game is made before OMGWTFBBQ+ people ruined media, there is no faggot toggle in the char creator, obviously a male char with seduction is straight and should only seduce teh babes.

Yeah whatever, but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal. There still are a few NPCs that can only be seduced by a male, like that food reviewer, so it's not like the game is 100% hetero-affriming. At any rate it would've been fun to find out the NPC reactions if you could try seduction on basically any human quest-giver, and there are a couple of vampires as well who you can seduce as both male and female (Jeannette and VV, although it's up for debate who's actually doing the seducing in those cases). It's not like it has to succeed for it to be worthwhile. It's called reactivity.

 

[Skinwalker]

Does the bank clerk have a voice-over for rejecting a male vampire's seduction or no? If yes, then it should be used.

 

[Semiurge]

Does the bank clerk have a voice-over for rejecting a male vampire's seduction or no? If yes, then it should be used.

As a general rule - if it exists, wesp will restore it. So I guess he doesn't.

 

[Wesp5]

Does the bank clerk have a voice-over for rejecting a male vampire's seduction or no? If yes, then it should be used.

No, he has no negative line, which is one reason why it was rather easy to add a male Seduction option. Which isn't a first line choice though and the other reason was that he has a special line only for males that I could use as a base for it.

 

[Vincente]

but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal.

Your sexual preferences you had while you were kine wouldn't change in a day or a week, especially if you have high humanity.

 

[Semiurge]

but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal.

Your sexual preferences you had while you were kine wouldn't change in a day or a week, especially if you have high humanity.

As a vampire your preference is blood, and you have no sexual libido. Your humanity might affect the way you break your previous behaviour patterns, as you are a creature that lives in the past, but I'd imagine that kindred are still adaptible enough to overcome this if it means accomplishing their goals effectively.

 

[NecroLord]

Seduction isn't even that useful.
You can seduce those blood dolls you find in the clubs and VV in Hollywood, but that's about it.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Yeah whatever, but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal. There still are a few NPCs that can only be seduced by a male, like that food reviewer, so it's not like the game is 100% hetero-affriming. At any rate it would've been fun to find out the NPC reactions if you could try seduction on basically any human quest-giver, and there are a couple of vampires as well who you can seduce as both male and female (Jeannette and VV, although it's up for debate who's actually doing the seducing in those cases). It's not like it has to succeed for it to be worthwhile. It's called reactivity.

The way I see it, they're not necessarily asexual, but distorted. Like an old man who chases young girls despite not being able to get it up anymore, vampires feel a nostalgia for human desire. This leads them to reenact their desires in a way that can make it hard to distinguish their real origin. On the other hand, to become an "asexual demon" is to turn away from humanity and go down the path to pure bestiality. The sensuality of the Toreadores is connected to their high humanity, for example.

I don't think the idea of seducing any quest giver makes snse. Given the specific dynamic between vampires and humans, it makes sense for vampires to be able to sniff out the weakness of any particular individual, like hunters do to prey. Different individuals, different weaknesses. There's no way for the player to know anything specific about an NPC's psychology unless our player avatar tells us about it. If there's an option for our male vampire to seduce a human male, that's because our male vampire character thinks that's a viable option for this particular individual. Anything else is trial and error(bad design) or Bioware style wish fulfillment fantasy(fake and gay).

 

[Semiurge]

Seduction isn't even that useful.
You can seduce those blood dolls you find in the clubs and VV in Hollywood, but that's about it.

Using seduction on VV at every opportunity only gets you a personal lap dance in Wesp's plus patch if you've also handled all her quests without unnecessary bloodshed or masquerade violations. In vanilla, some flavor emails from her or something.

 

[NecroLord]

Using seduction on VV at every opportunity only gets you a personal lap dance in Wesp's plus patch.

I'll take it.

 

[Vincente]

but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal.

Your sexual preferences you had while you were kine wouldn't change in a day or a week, especially if you have high humanity.

As a vampire your preference is blood, and you have no sexual libido. Your humanity might affect the way you break your previous behaviour patterns, as you are a creature that lives in the past, but I'd imagine that kindred are still adaptible enough to overcome this if it means accomplishing their goals effectively.

Kindred having no sexual libido thing was always there so cringy goth nerds wouldn't erp at larp sessions and make things weird for everyone else involved.

 

[Semiurge]

If there's an option for our male vampire to seduce a human male, that's because our male vampire character thinks that's a viable option for this particular individual. Anything else is trial and error(bad design) or Bioware style wish fulfillment fantasy(fake and gay).

A better way would be to leave those kinds of deductions to the player, after all there must be many disciplines in the lore that would help a vampire get inside someone's head, in Bloodlines there's even the malkavian whispers and possibly high auspex thanks to Wesp. The whispers don't actually offer anything concrete enough for you to alter your path radically, and even if they did you still couldn't do so anyway, but a complex game could make even that possible. I think the most notable madness network warning comes from the thinblood fortune teller who urges you to not open "it". If the game was full of hints like that that were connected to decisions big and small, hints that you yourself must decipher, then it would parallel some real life detective stuff. Games on the other hand often just use the PC to tell you how things are whilst limiting your options based on that, which is lazy but often necessary.

So in other words - limiting the occurrence of those seduction opportunities based on what your character - not you - thinks, is just an excuse for limiting player agency and game complexity. Real life is often about trial and error and subtle messages, and the more believably games are able to mimic its mechanics, the better.

 

[Skinwalker]

but don't forget that vampires are literally asexual demons to whom using sex and seduction as weapons against kine is perfectly normal.

Your sexual preferences you had while you were kine wouldn't change in a day or a week, especially if you have high humanity.

As a vampire your preference is blood, and you have no sexual libido. Your humanity might affect the way you break your previous behaviour patterns, as you are a creature that lives in the past, but I'd imagine that kindred are still adaptible enough to overcome this if it means accomplishing their goals effectively.

Kindred having no sexual libido thing was always there so cringy goth nerds wouldn't erp at larp sessions and make things weird for everyone else involved.

And also because they are... you know... DEAD BODIES.