Butthurt Wesp5's VtM: Bloodlines patch is the biggest poison in the RPG modding community

[Wesp5]

Using seduction on VV at every opportunity only gets you a personal lap dance in Wesp's plus patch.

I'll take it.

That is actually something the Clan Quest Mod added, but I was often asked to include it into the patch too, so I finally did. She promises you the lapdance and never delivers, so it kind of is a restoration !

 

[NecroLord]

She promises you the lapdance and never delivers

THE BITCH!
How dare she?

 

[jakkis]

She promises you the lapdance and never delivers

THE BITCH!
How dare she?

She's playing you and getting you to do her bidding

 

[NecroLord]

She promises you the lapdance and never delivers

THE BITCH!
How dare she?

She's playing you and getting you to do her bidding

Well, of course.
Business is business.
A Kindred cares about his/her survival, first and foremost...

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

If there's an option for our male vampire to seduce a human male, that's because our male vampire character thinks that's a viable option for this particular individual. Anything else is trial and error(bad design) or Bioware style wish fulfillment fantasy(fake and gay).

A better way would be to leave those kinds of deductions to the player, after all there must be many disciplines in the lore that would help a vampire get inside someone's head, in Bloodlines there's even the malkavian whispers and possibly high auspex thanks to Wesp. The whispers don't actually offer anything concrete enough for you to alter your path radically, and even if they did you still couldn't do so anyway, but a complex game could make even that possible.

Limiting the occurrence of those seduction opportunities based on what your character is supposed to think, is just an excuse for limiting player agency and game complexity. Real life is often about trial and error and subtle messages, and the more believably games are able to mimic its mechanics, the better.

I don't want to cast Know Alignment(perhaps renamed to Reveal Gay) on every NPC and I don't want to play detective. A passive ability that shows up in dialogue (where otherwise would be nothing) is the only reasonable alternative and the only one that takes into account the specific circumstance of every NPC. Not everyone should be vulnerable to seduction, anyway.

 

[Semiurge]

If there's an option for our male vampire to seduce a human male, that's because our male vampire character thinks that's a viable option for this particular individual. Anything else is trial and error(bad design) or Bioware style wish fulfillment fantasy(fake and gay).

A better way would be to leave those kinds of deductions to the player, after all there must be many disciplines in the lore that would help a vampire get inside someone's head, in Bloodlines there's even the malkavian whispers and possibly high auspex thanks to Wesp. The whispers don't actually offer anything concrete enough for you to alter your path radically, and even if they did you still couldn't do so anyway, but a complex game could make even that possible.

Limiting the occurrence of those seduction opportunities based on what your character is supposed to think, is just an excuse for limiting player agency and game complexity. Real life is often about trial and error and subtle messages, and the more believably games are able to mimic its mechanics, the better.

I don't want to cast Know Alignment(perhaps renamed to Reveal Gay) on every NPC and I don't want to play detective. A passive ability that shows up in dialogue (where otherwise would be nothing) is the only reasonable alternative and the only one that takes into account the specific circumstance of every NPC. Not everyone should be vulnerable to seduction, anyway.

But what if some players just want to try it anyway? It never hurts your objectives in Bloodlines, even if it fails. I don't want the PCs to know more than I do, it breaks immersion. The Bloodlines PC is a tabula rasa, histories notwithstanding, so he shouldn't be able to tell the player anything via these passive abilities. These abilities should always be available when dealing with regular human NPCs who must be manipulated in order to advance your quests, as options at your disposal. None of them need to be succesful, but the decision to try them should be left to the player. Anything else is just excuses and cost cutting, simple as that. Player freedom is a costly thing to implement.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I don't want the PCs to know more than I do, it breaks immersion. The Bloodlines PC is a tabula rasa, histories notwithstanding, so he shouldn't be able to tell the player anything.

It's a roleplaying game, not a simulation. You see what your character sees, you say what your character is able to say.

 

[Semiurge]

You see what your character sees

Well obviously not, based on those fleeting passive dialogue skills.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Why are you guys so rude with Wesp? He´s so much more valuable than all of you together.

Mashallah.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Why are you guys so rude with Wesp? He´s so much more valuable than all of you together.

If he is so valuable why is he spending his time on a game about vampires

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If he is so valuable why is he spending his time on a game about vampires

He's spending his free time on something that he enjoys doing and he's proactively contributing to the VtMB 'community' rather than being just another regular fan. Gotta respect that tbqh, regardless if you're as invested in this particular vidya or not.

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers and drama queens, Wesp strikes me as a decent guy who isn't doing it for validation purposes. Guy's got his life sorted out and this is simply a hobby and not some cope for lack of fulfillment irl.

 

[NecroLord]

If he is so valuable why is he spending his time on a game about vampires

He's spending his free time on something that he enjoys doing and he's proactively contributing to the VtMB 'community' rather than being just another regular fan. Gotta respect that tbqh, regardless if you're as invested in this particular vidya or not.

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers and drama queens, Wesp strikes me as a decent guy who isn't doing it for validation purposes. Guy's got his life sorted out and this is simply a hobby and not some cope for lack of fulfillment irl.

Yeah, but sometimes enough is enough...

 

[Vincente]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

It isn't narcissism if it's true. Game would be literally unplayable without at least the base patch.

 

[Vincente]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

It isn't narcissism if it's true. Game would be literally unplayable without at least the base patch.

Have you tried playing the base Steam game that comes with the 1.2 patch? Or have you personally experienced these so-called "literally unplayable" gamebreaking bugs for yourself?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Have you tried playing the base Steam game that comes with the 1.2 patch? Or have you personally experienced these so-called "literally unplayable" gamebreaking bugs for yourself?

Why would I subject myself to that? Even if what you are saying is true (Wesp5 can confirm if that's the case or not), the patch itself ultimately still improves the experience beyond just making the game stable enough as to not crash. There's no reason not to play with it installed, at least in its base variant. If the patch were as superfluous as you seem to imply, GoG wouldn't have decided on having the game come with it preinstalled on their platform.

 

[Vincente]

Have you tried playing the base Steam game that comes with the 1.2 patch? Or have you personally experienced these so-called "literally unplayable" gamebreaking bugs for yourself?

Why would I subject myself to that? Even if what you are saying is true (Wesp5 can confirm if that's the case or not), the patch itself ultimately still improves the experience beyond just making the game stable enough as to not crash. There's no reason not to play with it installed, at least in its base variant. If the patch were as superfluous as you seem to imply, GoG wouldn't have decided on having the game come with it preinstalled on their platform.

Why are you parroting other peoples opinions if you haven't even tried to play the game with Troika's official 1.2 patch? (Where they squashed the so-called gamebreaking bugs).

Also GOG is notorious for installing redundant fanpatches to their games, like they did with Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Why are you parroting other peoples opinions if you haven't even tried to play the game with Troika's official 1.2 patch?

Because the popularity of the patch, with it being acknowledged positively even by some of the original devs, gives me no reason to believe that that is not the case. Doesn't mean that I'll waste my time playing a seemingly inferior version of the game to confirm that opinion through direct experience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But I'm not Wesp5's proxy, so he can justify the value of his patch himself if he feels so inclined. In any case, I just think that his dedication to this pet project of his is something to be admired and I personally don't see any narcissistic intent behind it. Guy just enjoys modding as a hobby and I think that's neat.

 

[Vincente]

Doesn't mean that I'll waste my time playing a seemingly inferior version of the game to confirm that opinion through direct experience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What makes it inferior? According to who? Other players? Game journalists? Washed-up has-been Tim Cain, who didn't even work on the game? You didn't even try the game for yourself, how do you know it's inferior?

 

[Wesp5]

You need at least the Unofficial Patch executables otherwise the textures will end up very low resolution if you have more than 2 GB RAM which most PCs have nowadays. It seems there is an exception if you have laptops that share their main memory with the video memory. Also I did a lot of Unofficial Patches and mods for other games too, because fixing or creating stuff is often more fun than just critizising or consuming :

* Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Unofficial Patch
* Boiling Point: Road to Hell Unofficial Patch
* White Gold: War in Paradise Unofficial Patch
* The Precursors Unofficial Patch
* Half-Life: Xen-Warrior
* Theme Doom Patch
* The Babylon Project Unofficial Patch
* The Dark Mod Unofficial Patch

 

[NecroLord]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

It isn't narcissism if it's true. Game would be literally unplayable without at least the base patch.

Which is exactly Wesp5's real achievement.
Didn't Tim Cain&Co. praise him and his work? Even Avellone himself?
But now he just releases patch after patch after patch with changes thrown in that nobody asked for.

 

[Fargus]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

It isn't narcissism if it's true. Game would be literally unplayable without at least the base patch.

Which is exactly Wesp5's real achievement.
Didn't Tim Cain&Co. praise him and his work? Even Avellone himself?
But now he just releases patch after patch after patch with changes thrown in that nobody asked for.

I haven't played this game in around 3 years. The changes you're talking about are in plus version of the patch? Basic should be just bugfixes and QoL as far as i know.

 

[NecroLord]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

It isn't narcissism if it's true. Game would be literally unplayable without at least the base patch.

Which is exactly Wesp5's real achievement.
Didn't Tim Cain&Co. praise him and his work? Even Avellone himself?
But now he just releases patch after patch after patch with changes thrown in that nobody asked for.

I haven't played this game in around 3 years. The changes you're talking about are in plus version of the patch? Basic should just bugfixes and QoL as far as i know.

Actually, I think it is just the Plus patch version.
Wesp5 Can you clarify, mate?

 

[Wesp5]

Yeah, the fixes I add nowaday are mostly plus patch only or things which a normal player would never even notice. But as long as people on Planet Vampire or elsewhere report issues that I can fix I will do so !

 

[Semiurge]

And unlike many modders who happen to be narcissistic losers

Are you implying that Wesp "I alone turned Bloodlines from a flawed gem to the jewel it is today" Five isn't a narcissist?

The basic patch is not unique in its scope, even though supposedly it does a bit more than just fixing the bugs. There are others like the True Patch, but the real highlight of Wesp's legacy lies in the +patch. As far as I know there are no other patches that have restored as much cut content without also altering the gameplay or quest structure significantly.