Western RPGs have fallen, again

[NecroLord]

Jrpgs never evolved and failed to introduce western or innovative design principles.

I have to agree. Dont want to, since there are good rpgs, but they are, for the most part, old as fuck now (The first few final fantasy, until 5, secret of mana, etc)
I do think Persona games are a stand out, particularly 3 and 4 are very good, and can satisfy tism with numbers and thirst for decent writing too.
But beyond those, the genre is just lacking maturity in general.

Wouldnt say western design principles are doing so hot right now though, almost everything in the west is slop, its all the same unispired shit weve seen countless times before.

The people trailblazing the rpg genre in 2025 are mostly eastern euros, chinks and koreans.

Future of western rpgs looks bleak (to me at least), but I was hoping the japanese could actually learn some lessons and try to create a working blend of western-eastern style rpgs.

They learned nothing and are still putting out slop after slop very much like the western gaming industry.

 

[Mortmal]

How is it possible that they've never made a Berserk or Vagabond JRPG?

Why isn’t there a Berserk RPG? Well, let’s see, child abuse, child rape, bestiality, torture, very sadistic torture, ultraviolence, mutilations, gore, more rape,lolis ,and an overall super dark universe. That kind of content isnt allowed in the mainstream. It’s almost as if Miura had a checklist to include everything brutal and disturbing.

That said, you can find Berserk inspired characters in many JRPGs. In Dragon’s Dogma, I remember seeing Griffith’s armor.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

How is it possible that they've never made a Berserk or Vagabond JRPG?

Why isn’t there a Berserk RPG? Well, let’s see, child abuse, child rape, bestiality, torture, very sadistic torture, ultraviolence, mutilations, gore, more rape,lolis ,and an overall super dark universe. That kind of content isnt allowed in the mainstream. It’s almost as if Miura had a checklist to include everything brutal and disturbing.

That said, you can find Berserk inspired characters in many JRPGs. In Dragon’s Dogma, I remember seeing Griffith’s armor.

 

[Reinhardt]

failed to introduce western or innovative design principles.

like making mc fag in sequel, introduce niggers and chimp on twitter? thanks, you can keep it.

 

[toro]

The people trailblazing the rpg genre in 2025 are mostly eastern euros, chinks and koreans.

examples plz

 

[Roguey]

I didn't mean anything specific by it. It was a musing. But generally speaking, much like boomer shooters, it would be things that look like they came from the late 90s or early 2000s, yet feature complexity and gameplay mechanics made possible only by several decades of hindsight. Retro scene has been blooming across many genres, as of late.

The “boomer” appellation is so nonsensical here. The 90s was when Xennials and Millennials were growing up.

A boomer rpg would be something like, idk, Gygax’s Dungeons & Dragons? Traveller? The tabletop hobby is basically ruled by a handful of boomer and gen-X games that I find completely unappealing and unrelatable because I’m from a newer generation.

The oldest Gen Xers would have been high-school-aged when Rogue and Wizardry appeared (and almost half were already adults at the very beginning of the '90s), so it might be reasonable to term Rogue-likes and Wizardry-likes 'boomer RPGs' (perhaps Ultima-likes as well), although by this scheme almost half the major CRPG subgenres would be assigned to Gen X, leaving only Open World RPGs and Action RPGs for Millennials (perhaps JRPGs also, assuming a much younger audience on consoles).

• Boomer
  • Rogue-like
  • Wizardry-like
  • Ultima-like
• Gen X
  • Real-Time Blobber
  • Tactical RPG
  • Underworld-like
  • Diablo-like
  • C&CRPG
• Millennial
  • JRPG (younger console audience)
  • Open World RPG
  • Action RPG

Spoiler

Or we could accept that these generational terms don't mean very much.

The "boomer" in "boomer shooter" is colloquial, just means something that appeals to someone over the age of 30, the eternal boomer.

 

[Tyranicon]

Future of western rpgs looks bleak (to me at least), but I was hoping the japanese could actually learn some lessons and try to create a working blend of western-eastern style rpgs.

They learned nothing and are still putting out slop after slop very much like the western gaming industry.

If the Asian side of the industry ever move beyond gacha coomer-bait made for pre-teens, and also leaned into media made for adults with stories not dealing with socially awkward highschoolers, western devs are fucked.

Even the coomer bait shit is already scaring the western side of the industry.

Why isn’t there a Berserk RPG? Well, let’s see, child abuse, child rape, bestiality, torture, very sadistic torture, ultraviolence, mutilations, gore, more rape,lolis ,and an overall super dark universe. That kind of content isnt allowed in the mainstream. It’s almost as if Miura had a checklist to include everything brutal and disturbing.

Yes. Now somebody put it into a game.

 

[Lhynn]

The people trailblazing the rpg genre in 2025 are mostly eastern euros, chinks and koreans.

examples plz

Lets see, the aforementioned Troubleshooter



Some of the most enjoyable systems Ive had the pleasure of interacting with. I sometimes spent more times at the bar tinkering with my squads build than in missions, and when you did go to missions and you leveraged your builds it always feels amazing. The game starts out simple enough and never stops adding complexity, every new character bringing its own unique mechanics.

Ho Tu Lo Shu



One of the best turn based rpgs ever made, an open world to explore, obscure mechanics and hidden events everywhere, and a good cast of companions. Sadly brought down by the translation, though a new translation was released recently that I heard fixes most of these issues. Its a massive game.

Heroes Adventure: Road to passion



You follow a nobody in his martial journey, much like Ho Tu Lo Shu it has a lot of hidden events in the open world, and you pick the main story you want to play through your actions and choices. There are 5 main paths I believe and the game has a lot of replayability, a lot of choice and consequence with real consequences for your choices.

ACS



This game is well known around here, its one of the most autistic basebuilding games you will find on the market, you are basically in charge of a new sect of wizards, and need to tend to their needs to help them become powerful so your sect becomes the strongest in the continent. There are a lot of systems to interact with, a lot of depth, you can sink thousands of hours in it and still learn new stuff.

Svarogs dream


Came out at the end of last year, deceptively complex diablolike with a dynamic world and a fairly interesting story. While I dont know where the developers are from, I get the feeling that its some eastern euro shithole just going by the feel of the game. One of the better games of 2024.


Going to have to split this post into two, because of the 5 media limit

 

[Lhynn]

Underrail



Needs no introduction around here, but it is one of those games you cant leave out.


Tale of Wuxia



Brought it up before, but it is a classic. It is a princess maker type rpg combined with 3D environment during events, you visit towns and cities and there are a lot of hidden events and activities in each of them. The last third of the game is spent dealing with the consequences of your actions in an open world, and playing the character that you built for so long to follow the path of your choosing.

Tunguska: the visitation



Its basically stalker, really great game with a good atmosphere, this and Svarogs Dream has been what Ive been playing this january, great game overall and I cant recommend it enough.

Atom and its sequel




Some of the best rpgs to come around, the "eastern euro fallout" vibe is strong in the first one, it has heart and soul, and while its not a wild ride, theres enough to see and find to have a great time. The second one is more of a wild ride, it has a stronger feeling of adventure, a tighter narrative, and smoother gameplay, they learned a lot with the sequel.

 

[Elttharion]

How is it possible that they've never made a Berserk or Vagabond JRPG?

Why isn’t there a Berserk RPG? Well, let’s see, child abuse, child rape, bestiality, torture, very sadistic torture, ultraviolence, mutilations, gore, more rape,lolis ,and an overall super dark universe. That kind of content isnt allowed in the mainstream. It’s almost as if Miura had a checklist to include everything brutal and disturbing.

That said, you can find Berserk inspired characters in many JRPGs. In Dragon’s Dogma, I remember seeing Griffith’s armor.

There is also a berserk warriors game, never played it tho

 

[Tyranicon]

There is also a berserk warriors game, never played it tho

It's super boring and basically something you would only get if you're a big fan of the IP.

The only good part of the game is the re-tread through the golden age (of course) but once it passes the Eclipse it's endless tedium for the rest of the run time. I didn't even finish it.

Fuck it, I'll shoehorn Berserk into my game too. I have been planning on it for years. In a perfectly original and legal fashion ofc.

 

[toro]

Underrail



Needs no introduction around here, but it is one of those games you cant leave out.


Tale of Wuxia



Brought it up before, but it is a classic. It is a princess maker type rpg combined with 3D environment during events, you visit towns and cities and there are a lot of hidden events and activities in each of them. The last third of the game is spent dealing with the consequences of your actions in an open world, and playing the character that you built for so long to follow the path of your choosing.

Tunguska: the visitation



Its basically stalker, really great game with a good atmosphere, this and Svarogs Dream has been what Ive been playing this january, great game overall and I cant recommend it enough.

Atom and its sequel




Some of the best rpgs to come around, the "eastern euro fallout" vibe is strong in the first one, it has heart and soul, and while its not a wild ride, theres enough to see and find to have a great time. The second one is more of a wild ride, it has a stronger feeling of adventure, a tighter narrative, and smoother gameplay, they learned a lot with the sequel.

Yeah. Underrail released in 2015 is "trailblazing the rpg genre in 2025".

 

[Lhynn]

Yeah. Underrail released in 2015 is "trailblazing the rpg genre in 2025".

Still getting patches and dlcs, that said it is true that its the oldest title in the list.

 

[NecroLord]

Underrail



Needs no introduction around here, but it is one of those games you cant leave out.


Tale of Wuxia



Brought it up before, but it is a classic. It is a princess maker type rpg combined with 3D environment during events, you visit towns and cities and there are a lot of hidden events and activities in each of them. The last third of the game is spent dealing with the consequences of your actions in an open world, and playing the character that you built for so long to follow the path of your choosing.

Tunguska: the visitation



Its basically stalker, really great game with a good atmosphere, this and Svarogs Dream has been what Ive been playing this january, great game overall and I cant recommend it enough.

Atom and its sequel




Some of the best rpgs to come around, the "eastern euro fallout" vibe is strong in the first one, it has heart and soul, and while its not a wild ride, theres enough to see and find to have a great time. The second one is more of a wild ride, it has a stronger feeling of adventure, a tighter narrative, and smoother gameplay, they learned a lot with the sequel.

How did I miss Underrail??
Now on my list.

 

[Cryomancer]

UnderRail is a masterpiece among masterpieces.

 

[Dark Souls II]

child abuse, child rape, bestiality, torture, very sadistic torture, ultraviolence, mutilations, gore, more rape,lolis ,and an overall super dark universe

And guess what, this Japanese coomer game created in RPGMaker by one guy totally shits on any AAA Western RPG made in the last 20 years when it comes to choices & consequences, art direction, exploration, writing, characters, world-building, lore and itemization.

 

[Atlantico]

I didn't mean anything specific by it. It was a musing. But generally speaking, much like boomer shooters, it would be things that look like they came from the late 90s or early 2000s, yet feature complexity and gameplay mechanics made possible only by several decades of hindsight. Retro scene has been blooming across many genres, as of late.

The “boomer” appellation is so nonsensical here. The 90s was when Xennials and Millennials were growing up.

A boomer rpg would be something like, idk, Gygax’s Dungeons & Dragons? Traveller? The tabletop hobby is basically ruled by a handful of boomer and gen-X games that I find completely unappealing and unrelatable because I’m from a newer generation.

The oldest Gen Xers would have been high-school-aged when Rogue and Wizardry appeared (and almost half were already adults at the very beginning of the '90s), so it might be reasonable to term Rogue-likes and Wizardry-likes 'boomer RPGs' (perhaps Ultima-likes as well), although by this scheme almost half the major CRPG subgenres would be assigned to Gen X, leaving only Open World RPGs and Action RPGs for Millennials (perhaps JRPGs also, assuming a much younger audience on consoles).

• Boomer
  • Rogue-like
  • Wizardry-like
  • Ultima-like
• Gen X
  • Real-Time Blobber
  • Tactical RPG
  • Underworld-like
  • Diablo-like
  • C&CRPG
• Millennial
  • JRPG (younger console audience)
  • Open World RPG
  • Action RPG

Spoiler

Or we could accept that these generational terms don't mean very much.

There's no such thing as a "blobber" you autistic fuck

 

[Nifft Batuff]

UnderRail is a masterpiece among masterpieces.

And, technically speaking, it is possible to make Underrail with '90s technology easily. In an alternate universe, it could have been developed in the '90s, right after Fallout, considering that the former is the inspiration for the latter.

Instead we had Baldur's Gate.

 

[Mortmal]

almost half the major CRPG subgenres would be assigned to Gen X, leaving only Open World RPGs and Action RPGs

The first open world games are games like Ultima 6 or 7 (beginning of '90s).

The first Open World CRPG was Faery Tale Adventure, developed by one person in seven months in 1986 on a new type of computer released late the previous year (namely the Commodore Amiga):

No , ultima 1-4 were released before that, phantasie, might and magic, and many ultima like. Faery tales adventure is quite late to the party.

 

[The Nameless One]

This is the sequel to my last shitpost thread: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-greatest-fall-in-the-history-of-rpgs.150473/

Let's look at the current status of some of our contestants.

Dragon Age Veilguard - The fate of the studio is uncertain, sales don't appear to be good (which is possibly an understatement), the director is leaving and writes insane stuff like

"I did what I set out to do at BioWare. That is to come in and help right the ship."

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 - chronically delayed game once again delayed to "first half of 2025," so not even a concrete date. Thinks that releasing crap like this will excite its audience:

View attachment 60361
View attachment 60362

Avowed - currently still radio silent on alleged racist hiring practices, apparently nuked their steam forums somehow, and a month away from release.

Their ranking on the best-selling list is... worrying.

View attachment 60363

Fable - nobody gives a shit, including their marketing guys.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Surprise contestant! Currently undergoing culture war drama. Well-timed "leaks" have robbed this game of some thunder, but will it be vindicated by context and sales? We shall see.

Is it literally impossible for western RPG devs not to self-sabotage their own games?

Modern games are bad, but the popcorn is top-tier.

First of all, "western" cRPGs have not fallen recently, because there's no bar to fall from in the first place. There is no bar nor hasn't been any since at least over a decade and maybe everyone here knows it, no?

Veilguard - If it wasn't preceded by the franchise's, it would make a not too terrible name for an anti-virus program.

VTMB2 - might as well never release, because it won't make any difference at all and shall thus return to the gaping black hole from whence it came. Best case scenario will drag along the whole IP with it, so someone buys it cheap and does anything useful with it, if.

Avowed - Most likely outsold by car mechanic simulator, and forgotten just as easy.

Fable - Non existant franchise since at least 2008, which is over 15 years ago. Do you wanna call H.G. Wells too?

KCD2 - Sure, who doesn't mind playing single player Chivalry with somehow worse combat and covert woketardism based on expert conclusions on everything from... 500 years ago?

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

The Codexian scholars agree: All the best modern cRPGs are made by war-traumatized Ukrainians.

Since i know your ADHD ass won't read this without an image, here

Looks worriedly at pillow serving as lumbar support

Ok to be fair I'm doing this because my new fancy Office Chair isn't here yet.
Even through it should have been already here... you know, SINCE DECEMBER!
I mean, it has gotten here already... but some ASSHOLES delivered with a broken component.
Luckily, I filmed the unboxing (always film your unboxings, guys), so I got to send it back and they will send me a new one.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Veilguard - If it wasn't preceded by the franchise's, it would make a not too terrible name for an anti-virus program.

VTMB2 - might as well never release, because it won't make any difference at all and shall thus return to the gaping black hole from whence it came. Best case scenario will drag along the whole IP with it, so someone buys it cheap and does anything useful with it, if.

Avowed - Most likely outsold by car mechanic simulator, and forgotten just as easy.

Fable - Non existant franchise since at least 2008, which is over 15 years ago. Do you wanna call H.G. Wells too?

KCD2 - Sure, who doesn't mind playing single player Chivalry with somehow worse combat and covert woketardism based on expert conclusions on everything from... 500 years ago?

None of these are actual RPGs

BG3 is RPG, regardless of my opinion on it, and it sells like candy

 

[Frank Capicoli]

Also, you could count the actually GOOD boomer shooters on one hand.

Dusk, Amid Evil, The Citadel, The Citadel 2, Cruelty Squad

Arthurian Legends is gud too.

 

[The Nameless One]

Veilguard - If it wasn't preceded by the franchise's, it would make a not too terrible name for an anti-virus program.

VTMB2 - might as well never release, because it won't make any difference at all and shall thus return to the gaping black hole from whence it came. Best case scenario will drag along the whole IP with it, so someone buys it cheap and does anything useful with it, if.

Avowed - Most likely outsold by car mechanic simulator, and forgotten just as easy.

Fable - Non existant franchise since at least 2008, which is over 15 years ago. Do you wanna call H.G. Wells too?

KCD2 - Sure, who doesn't mind playing single player Chivalry with somehow worse combat and covert woketardism based on expert conclusions on everything from... 500 years ago?

None of these are actual RPGs

BG3 is RPG, regardless of my opinion on it, and it sells like candy

Commercial success does not "award" it being a true sequel to BG2, regardless of its quality and forced wokeism.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

We need more indie rpgs and in genres other than Tolkien ripoffs. I’m sick of knights and elves. There’s more Tolkien ripoffs now than you can play in a lifetime. We don’t need more.