Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[jackofshadows]

To be fair a lot of dungeons in both Oblivion and Skyrim have a "story" to them, without being official quests. Not defending quest design in either game, trust me, but there is at least a bit more to most of their dungeons than nothing. It is weird now that you guys mention it how few quests start outside a city though.

Dumps of lore here and there are better than nothing ofc, but it has to be more that that. Something that player can point out, connect to the lore and remember by. But it's impossible to give unique touch to every dungeon with that huge scope of things... Except they kinda managed it in Skyrim by mixing different patterns (tomb+snow cave+something else etc) together and adding more lore/quest pieces to it. They even partially solved generic reward problem by spreading dragon's words across the all map. But in Oblivion all the dungeons looks like straight copy&paste to me, it's was awful.

 

[Funposter]

To be fair a lot of dungeons in both Oblivion and Skyrim have a "story" to them, without being official quests. Not defending quest design in either game, trust me, but there is at least a bit more to most of their dungeons than nothing. It is weird now that you guys mention it how few quests start outside a city though.

It started with Oblivion (which you can see in the UESP link), but Skyrim took it to another level. The vast majority of dungeons in Skyrim feature some amount of heavy-handed environmental storytelling. It's why normies enjoy walking around the world and just exploring, rather than finishing questlines etc.

 

[AW8]

If Bethesda has any sense, they'll task Id to start working on The Elder Scrolls: Pelinal after Doom Eternal ships.

 

[kaisergeddon]

The basic feeling I had for Oblivion was disappointment. I came from Daggerfall and Morrowind beforehand, and seeing what Bethesda did with Oblivion was a downgrade in most ways except for graphics, and even there the art direction was absent. They may as well have procedurally generated the whole game, because the end result is barely different from what you'd expect a primitive AI to have created based on simple instructions to content fill under the label "generic fantasy". Special mention goes to the original horse armor DLC. This was exactly the point in which Bethesda was changing into the company it is today too. You could still see some of the old Bethesda in Oblivion, because the game isn't entirely without merit, but it was obvious they were becoming the Bethesda that produced the modern Fallout series and operates on grift and allowing bare minimum products meant to meet the lowest common denominator in game standards, which is exactly where we are today with F76.

 

[DalekFlay]

The idea that Bethesda feel off after Oblivion baffles me, because as flawed as their games are Oblivion is easily my least favorite (not counting Arena, which I never played). Oblivion through Fallout 4 have similar issues with writing, generic content, retardo quest design, etc... but Oblivion is the worst one out of them all.

 

[alighieri]

Because the concepts were neat, but the execution was utter shit. Dungeons and portals felt like copy & paste (and probably were) and were boring as hell. The open-world felt empty and there wasn't much to explore.

 

[kaisergeddon]

I wouldn't know, because I stopped playing their games after Fallout 3 failed me. I would argue FO3 is worse than Oblivion, it clearly had frontloaded content for the shelter and the rest of the game was an afterthought besides Tenpenny Tower and Megaton City, but I have no stake in this. I move on. It doesn't take much for me to see that a company isn't making products to suit me anymore.

 

[Orma]

The Witcher 3 is full of designed encounters/quests in the wilderness though. It's totally worth roaming around and exploring.

Lol no. It's basically just gta novigrad and later on, gta (even moreso) Beauclair,

just empty worlds with repetitive activities and generic pedestrians peasants, It even has a gps

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

You know, oblivion is pretty bad BUT I think it has the best soundtrack of all TES games

so it did something good i guess

 

[moleman]

You know, oblivion is pretty bad BUT I think it has the best soundtrack of all TES games...

No, just no.

 

[anvi]

I hate Skyrim's music, generic af and it all sounds the same.

 

[moleman]

Oblivions soundtrack is like fantasy elevator music imo.

 

[Azdul]

Mad Man mode: FCOM + Maskar's Overhaul (be prepared for the worst modding experience of your life, but the reward is glorious if you can get a stable configuration)
Lazy mode: Maskar's Overhaul

The problem with FCOM is that it is 6 years old, and was not updated for last 4 years. It's basically death by thousand fixes, compatibility patches and outdated mods.

It is enough to look at Maskar's Overhaul to see how mods evolved in recent years. It is out of the box compatible with OOO and Better Cities. It can add contents from WAC to spawn points and equipment lists, without installing full WAC and without using Wrye Bash.

As for stable configuration - Oblivion engine is a harsh mistress. ENBBoost, 4GB patch, EngineBugFixes, NVAC help somewhat with Oblivion crashing for "no reason at all". But many mods contain broken scripts and broken meshes, and Oblivion engine makes it very easy for mods to interact in destructive way. To solve crashes once and for all we would need something like OpenMW for Oblivion.

 

[DOS]

Nothing to hate when Oblivion has some of the most progressive and outside-of-the-box role-playing:

 

[RNGsus]

I hate Skyrim's music, generic af and it all sounds the same.

Its mostly music from Morrowind and Oblivion.

 

[Azdul]

Nothing to hate when Oblivion has some of the most progressive and outside-of-the-box role-playing:

It's a factions bug fixed by UOP in 2008. Previously Rimalus Bruiant was going through mid-life crisis and secretly hated his wife and her dogs.

In my experience Oblivion AI is much better than Skyrim one. And with MOO + OOO it is actually quite good - enemies chase you through loading doors, heal themselves and each other, do not get stuck on scenery, change the tactics when they're losing, aim where you will be, not where you are, etc.

Skyrim AI is much worse - it depends too much on carefully designed arenas for boss fights. Even with mods that suppose to fix Skyrim AI - enemies are still easy to cheese, and your allies are useless. It is not really the case with modded Oblivion - MOO added ability to climb vertical obstacles, OOO added teamwork and going through loading doors - and few high level enemies really can kill you and rape your corpse.

 

[janior]

oblivion is the best fallout game

 

[jackofshadows]

and few high level enemies really can kill you and rape your corpse.

What kind of mods we're talking about again?

 

[Azdul]

and few high level enemies really can kill you and rape your corpse.

What kind of mods we're talking about again?

Maskars and Oscuro together. Maskars teaches AI few tricks, and occasionally adds "boss" among enemies in dungeons or caves. They're not bullet sponges, but can quite effectively heal themselves and each other - so usual cheese tactics do not work.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

 

[DraQ]

It's a factions bug fixed by UOP in 2008. Previously Rimalus Bruiant was going through mid-life crisis and secretly hated his wife and her dogs.

In my experience Oblivion AI is much better than Skyrim one. And with MOO + OOO it is actually quite good - enemies chase you through loading doors, heal themselves and each other, do not get stuck on scenery, change the tactics when they're losing, aim where you will be, not where you are, etc.

Skyrim AI is much worse - it depends too much on carefully designed arenas for boss fights. Even with mods that suppose to fix Skyrim AI - enemies are still easy to cheese, and your allies are useless. It is not really the case with modded Oblivion - MOO added ability to climb vertical obstacles, OOO added teamwork and going through loading doors - and few high level enemies really can kill you and rape your corpse.

So basically the AI is better before after removing ways for it to get stuck on scenery it does no longer get stuck on scenery?
Just imagine how dangerous it would be if all the enemies were made to noclip.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

The AI of New Vegas was pretty decent at times.
I remember watching Legion soldiers picking up the weapons of their fallen comrades when theirs were broken.

 

[Bad Sector]

The AI of New Vegas was pretty decent at times.
I remember watching Legion soldiers picking up the weapons of their fallen comrades when theirs were broken.

I'm almost sure this was the case in Bethesda's games ever since Oblivion. When they do not have a weapon they will pick up the nearest one.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Well, Daggerfall [which I personally did not like] offered you a whole continent to play with and absolute freedom to travel anywhere. The cities were real size, there were hundreds if not thousands of people in the city, dynamic quests. Of course, almost everything was procedurally generated, the universe/lore was fairly generic and the writing nothing special.
Morrowind offered you a small territory to play with. The cities were smaller than they would in reality, there were tens of people in a city. Everything was hand-designed, the universe/lore extraordinary and the writing really good.

People who liked Daggerfall often did not like Morrowind. People who liked Morrowind often did not like Daggerfall. They are very different in philosophy.

And then Oblivion managed to reconcile the two groups by having a game that was a bit of both : small territory to play with, cities smaller than they would in reality (smaller than Morrowind actually, though the world map is larger). There are maybe twenty people in cities except the largest one. Everything fells procedurally generated (or poorly hand designed) The universe/lore is totally generic and the writing subpar.

 

[Konjad]

 

[Bliblablubb]

The AI of New Vegas was pretty decent at times.
I remember watching Legion soldiers picking up the weapons of their fallen comrades when theirs were broken.

I'm almost sure this was the case in Bethesda's games ever since Oblivion. When they do not have a weapon they will pick up the nearest one.

Was especially funny when Beth put back NPCs in FO76 just copy pasting the AI. They would loot priceless farmed weapons from dead players with no chance to get them back.