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Why first person perspective is becoming rarer and rarer among RPGs?

Cryomancer

Arcane
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In late 80s/90s, we had Ravenloft:Strahd possession, Ravenloft : Stone prophet, Anvil of Dawn, Lands of Lore 1/2/3, Menzoberranzan, Eye of the Beholder 1/2/3, Might & Magic IV/V/VI/VII/VIII, Wizards and Warriors, TES Daggerfall, Dungeon hack, Ultima Underword, Black Crypt, Bards Tale 1/2/3 to name a few iconic RPG's. In the most recent years, we got almost no FP RPGs. With the exception of few good games like Grimoire, we got only boring pseudo self identified RPGs in first person perspective. I ask this question cuz recently I started to play EQ and fell in love with the game and don't remember the last time that I got so immersed in a RPG, with few moments of immersion breaking, like when I could cast boil blood in a freaking skeleton.

Why we are having so few RPGs in FP? My guess? Consoles + The fact that immersion is no longer valued by gamers and rpg developers.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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In late 80s/90s, we had Ravenloft:Strahd possession, Ravenloft : Stone prophet, Anvil of Dawn, Lands of Lore 1/2/3, Menzoberranzan, Eye of the Beholder 1/2/3, Might & Magic IV/V/VI/VII/VIII, Wizards and Warriors, TES Daggerfall, Dungeon hack, Ultima Underword, Black Crypt, Bards Tale 1/2/3 to name a few iconic RPG's.
All these games fall into 3 subgenres:
  1. Turn-based blobbers a.k.a. Wizardry-likes
  2. Real-time blobbers a.k.a. Dungeon Master-likes, which descended from turn-based blobbers
  3. Underworld-likes, which descended from real-time blobbers
These subgenres are more exploration-focused, whereas recent CRPGs (leaving aside the ones that are RPGs in name only) tend to be focused on either tactical turn-based combat or action-based real-time combat, both of which necessitate third-person perspective. :M
 

mondblut

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Ingrija
we got only boring pseudo self identified RPGs in first person perspective.

Consoles + The fact that immersion is no longer valued by gamers and rpg developers.

Those who value immersion went over to boring pseudo self identified RPGs, because all those RPG trappings like grid-based movement, blob party, dice-based action and too many stats aren't exactly immersive enough.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
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Jan 26, 2014
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If what you want are blobbers then bad luck. They sell poorly and thus they don't get made often.

Kingdom Come or Enderal are fantastic first person RPGs though. Nothing pseudo about it.
 

V_K

Arcane
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at a Nowhere near you
In the most recent years, we got almost no FP RPGs.
Legend of Grimrock 1&2, Vaporum, M&MXL, Starcrawlers, 7 Mages, Grimoire, The Quest, Operencia, BT4, Swords&Sorcery, Legends of Amberland.
Then there's about a dozen indie Grimrock clones.
Granted, not all of them are good, but that applies to 90s titles on your list too.
 

Trojan_generic

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
This one is easy. It's because kids want to see their character and their shiny new (DLC) armour. For a large part of them, computer (and especially console) games are about playing with a Barbie.
 

Stoned Ape

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From my perspective there are actually too many 1st person RPGs being produced because:

a) I enjoy party-based RPGs more than I do single-character ones

b) I generally dislike blobbers, and I particularly hate real-time blobbers.

I do think that there aren't enough Gold Box/RoA style games with 1st person exploration and 3rd person tactical combat, though.

Special mention goes to that game which had 3rd person exploration and 1st person blobber-style combat. Talk about worst of both worlds.
 

Butter

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Blobbers are completely playable on consoles or with a gamepad. The early Wizardry titles were all released on consoles, and the Japanese are still making games in that style. Western devs in the past 10 years have been obsessed with isometric perspective, at least in part because of IE nostalgia.
 

gurugeorge

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Strap Yourselves In
Yeah the squeeze is from both sides - 3rd person dress-up and isometric nostalgia.

Blobbers just seem to me to be an artifact of older technology. I guess if you grew up with them you'll have a fondness for them, but that's the same for all of us who have a fondness for gaming constraints we grew up with due to some tech limitation. The fondness for fixed isometric is just from a different, slightly later school of nostalgia for old tech limitations.
 

Tao

Savant
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Sep 13, 2015
Messages
366
Party management has taking root in crpgs imo. A solo first person rpg it's more inmersive and intiutive but with a party is a different vibe because you need to see more to control better so what they need is not an ego view but a group view. Plus in third person you can make more "cinematic" shit either way and that sell a lot sadly.
 

Tihskael

Learned
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Jun 22, 2020
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325
Because the Todd will take a total of 15 years to put out the next Elder Scrolls. Perfection demands toil and time, both of which the Todd seems to put in readily. Wait till 2026/27 when the master of chess shakes up the industry once again as he always does.
 

unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
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Strap Yourselves In
Many reasons, most of them mundane and in the immediate sense financially motivated, but overall I think it is an expected and natural consequence in the industry reflecting the evolution of human consciousness in microcosm; I'm referring to the qualitative mutations undergone in perspective and of our increasing awareness of space and time. To explain this well would be a difficult task on a forum post but I'd recommend reading Jean Gebser's The Ever-Present Origin, wherein he covers this phenomenon from both art history and metaphysical positions. A very basic outline of this work could be described as such: The evolution of human consciousness has developed so far across five psychosocial structures; approximately they are the archaic, magic, mythic, mental and (not finally, but ultimately, as far as we're presently concerned) the integral, and these structures arose and transformed concurrent to our developing conscious acuity in relation to time and space which occurred in three phases he called the unperspectival, the perspectival and on to the aperspectival.

The growing realization of spatial dimensions and of time can be traced across art history, observable in the two dimensional and disproportionate profile perspective of Egyptian, or Mayan, or Persian wall paintings and reliefs and for instance ancient Grecian pottery, to the development of portraiture and the Renaissance era shift to realized landscape foregrounds and backgrounds with intricate details depicted to scale, to the abstract art of the early modern period where unto visible and invisible space is added the presentation of time (most markedly as Gebser points out in a work of Picasso's which somehow portrays a woman from all three dimensions simultaneously). Each conscious mutation, he contends is not superior nor inferior to its former structures and includes all those preceding it while adapting. To my thinking it appears that the development of video games embody these same successive developmental structures, from the early instances of flat, 2D perspectives where time only moves vertically or horizontally forward or the pseudo first-person 3D wireframe games of the mid-seventies, onto extensions out into space by first and third person perspectives, the advent of real-time multiplayer interactivity, onto enhanced "3D" and now virtual reality. The greater impulse moving through the art world is towards the next structure, inclusive of all that came before but primarily oriented towards realizing the mutation. Virtual reality can even be thought of as undergoing its own very similar but more advanced developmental process, where in its early phases no other perspective can generally be conceived of than the first person or over-the-shoulder third person, unless a Picasso of the medium appears and completely alters our visionary possibilities. Like the several millennia of observable art history, we've had breakthroughs of perspective in video games only a handful of times, such as with Ultima Underworld. The few genuinely innovative artists alive and working in the industry today have been trying to achieve the next breakthrough, for instance Kojima and his "strand" games concept (one of the worst instances of self-celebrating I've ever seen, and I genuinely like some of his games), but as far as I'm aware nothing of the sort has happened yet. As we move closer to it, we will have more and more iterations of the same game (narrative-focused open-world amusement park styled sandboxes) as the majority become less inspired, less capable of innovation, less creative etc. The so-called CRPG "renaissance" is among the more grievous atrocities perpetuated under these abhorrent circumstances, thinking a simple reverting in perspective is a sufficient alternative and completely overlooking what made the classics what they are. First-person CRPGs are among the peak of the entirety of video games for me, but it was so much more than the perspective that made them so remarkable, such as the unique aesthetics where today everything has the same generic hyper-realistic style, where even the hand painted inventory icons and other features of the user interfaces look like parts of colored photographs.
 

Fowyr

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Which 90s titles in that list is not great?
I like Dungeon Hack, finished it several times, but it's good for what it is.
Eye of the Beholder 3 was really, really bad.
Menzoberranzan was not terrible, but not great at all.
FP CRPGs partially died in second part of 90-s because, like Zed Duke of Banville said, entire subgenres have died. Just like DM-likes, that were revitalized only with Legend of Grimrock.
So, the new school of CRPG from late 90-s copied Fallout and BG.
Some remnants of FP RPGs of course were present, Morrowind, Wizardry 8 or Arx Fatalis (that was inspired by UUW), but the isometric perspective became the new standard.
 
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