Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

[Vic]

by the way, I just recently clocked almost 100 hours in that game so my criticism that it's a broken mess comes from my recent experience with it, not something I played as a kid.

100 hours but not enough experience to realise that mouse movement has nothing to do with what attack you use in combat

Oh, that's right, it's not like in daggerfall but based on your movement, meh, like I said I use the "always use best attack" option so I didn't even remember how it plays without it.

By the way, 100 hours and I haven't even touched alchemy, enchanting, nor the 2 expansions yet (just started Tribunal). And only did 2 factions. I didn't claim to be a morrowind pro after 100 hours, this game is massive. Just stated my experience from which I derive my criticism that almost all systems in this game are broken, and it uses way too much random loot to make you addicted. Like I said, I didn't even touch alchemy yet. Combat at my level has been a joke for the past 15 levels or so. Everything dies in 1-2 hits, well except in the Tribunal expansion I'm getting killed by trolls in the sewers so that's nice. For base game tho I'll have to look for a combat overhaul mod.

Also, the mod UI Expansion is a must in my opinion because it greys out dialogue options if they have nothing new to say, so you don't have to read the same lines of dialogue over and over, it's not perfect but a massive improvement over vanilla.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Combat at my level has been a joke for the past 15 levels or so.

Yeah combat gets easy really quick in Morrowind, not sure what level you are but once you hit 22 the base game won't level scale enemy spawns past that.

 

[luj1]

Daymn I've yet to get into Morrowind. Did play Oblivion and Skyrim substantially, but never finished either.

I played it on release and it still blows my mind.

You could interact with anything, starting from toothpicks and forks and knives or loot every basket or sack of potatoes. Tons of manually placed statics made the world feel logical and alive. You can see some games such as KCD use that to same effect today.

Travelling from one settlement to another was like going from planet to planet. It took forever and felt like a real journey. And every small battle along the way was risky, even a tiny worm could beat the shit out of you.

The story was great because the world itself was telling its own story. You didn't need to listen to anybody or do any quests, you could have just travel around and read books and look at different architecture and talk to random people (yes, the famous wikipedia critique of Morrowind; but it works).

There was absolutely zero pressure on you to do anything. I could go to some unknown village right from the start and steal forks or potatoes. Or explore dungeons or whatever. Or go into a volcano and get raped by ash vampires.

Dungeons were creepy and the closer you were to Red Mountain (central region / endgame) it felt like having a fevered dream. Of course you could have went there on level 1 or 2. If you had access to levitation magick via potions or scrolls, you could access advanced content right away. Nothing was off bars.

I think the major success of Morrowind was that it was difficult and rewarding. You could feel yourself grow from a peasant to a god. And the whole world changed and reacted to you. And there was never pressure on you. No voice acting, no stupid companions, no cutscenes, etc. You were alone and had all the time in the world, even staring at a wall in Morrowind felt good.

 

[NecroLord]

Average Morrowind enjoyer.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Average Morrowind enjoyer.

he must be so short the camera didn't even capture him standing next to the average oblivion enjoyer

 

[Vic]

no stupid companions

oh boy, please try doing any of the escort quests and you quickly realize why they didn't add companions.

Travelling from one settlement to another was like going from planet to planet. It took forever and felt like a real journey.

Only for the first 2-3 towns, after that you'll be abusing Divine/Almsivi Intervention and Mark/Recall and running to the siltstrider/mages guide. Fast travel is still possible like in Oblivion in this game but it's just more cumbersome as it now takes 5 steps to fast travel to any city instead of just 1 step like in Oblivion.

Most systems have been improved from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim.

Again, most of the morrowind praise is like that, from people who played it as kids, starry eyed and not having the experience to understand how the underlying systems work. Play it now, as a grown ass man and you will quickly see all of the shortcomings

 

[anvi]

I enjoyed parts of it, I had more fun in Morrowind than Oblivion or Skyrim. It at least feels like something born on PC and resembles an RPG world, after that it feels like they stripped it down to such basic mechanics that they are now console shooters with spells. If I played it without playing anything before it I probably would have liked it. And if they kept building upon it and improving it in further games instead of stripping it all out, it could have grown into something great. But neither of those things happened.

 

[NecroLord]

Great soundtrack too.

 

[Vic]

Average Morrowind enjoyer.

 

[Funposter]

Only for the first 2-3 towns, after that you'll be abusing Divine/Almsivi Intervention and Mark/Recall and running to the siltstrider/mages guide. Fast travel is still possible like in Oblivion in this game but it's just more cumbersome as it now takes 5 steps to fast travel to any city instead of just 1 step like in Oblivion.

Most systems have been improved from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim.

Oblivion and Skyrim have a superior system because you can just click on a map? That's precisely what makes them so inferior. Morrowind's fast travel system is an actual game mechanic that the player needs to engage with. The player needs to learn the Silt Strider and boat routes to travel efficiently (that is, without wasting money) and also needs to learn how those two system interconnect, since some settlements are ONLY able to be travelled to by boat and others by Silt Strider. In addition to that, a big part of Mark and Recall is the decision-making attached to WHERE the player puts their Mark down. Is it their home? Their quest giver? Or is it some other point on the map that allows them to use Divine and Almsivi Intervention to travel around the island in the least possible steps? It's all well and good to stick your Mark down in front of Caius Cosades while you do the first part of the Main Quest, but Balmora is really easy to access by Silt Strider, so you're only saving yourself a small amount of gold and time walking from the strider port. One of the more interesting places to put down a Mark is actually in the Molag Amur region, where Divine Intervention takes you to Sadrith Mora, and Almsivi to Molag Mar. A Divine Intervention from Molag Mar then allows you to chain travel over to Ebonheart.

It's so much more in-depth and interesting than Oblivion and Skyrim's system, that to claim the latter are superior means you actually dislike video games or that you're being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Sarathiour]

Wonder what loot is in there. See that barrel? Wonder how item is in there.

What

Most loot in dungeon is utter trash, only set piece in few special dungeon are noteworthy, you can either forge, summon or just shank a daedra for the best weapon in the game, and pretty early on.
Armor is either bought or stolen.
There is pretty much never somethin interesting in barrel and chest.

 

[luj1]

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I didn't know there's a "always use best attack" option. Is that something from a mod or is it in the original? If it's the latter, that's consolefag decline of course.

 

[skeletonmeister]

I don't think dice roll combat, or any mechanics that involve physical activities, works well in an action-adventure with a full 3D environment.

 

[Sarathiour]

Always has been an option in the original, just like the difficulty slider.

 

[MWaser]

Average Morrowind enjoyer:

Average skyrim enjoyer:

 

[Vic]

I didn't know there's a "always use best attack" option.

^ Average Morrowind player.

 

[Vic]

Most loot in dungeon is utter trash, only set piece in few special dungeon are noteworthy, you can either forge, summon or just shank a daedra for the best weapon in the game, and pretty early on.

Are you trolling or were you seriously not aware that we are talking about Morrowind and not Skyrim? Best loot in Morrowind is from random dungeons, to find the best stuff you have to scour every inch of every dungeon because a lot of the loot is "hidden". Best weapon in the game, at least so far for me and my build is the two handed sword Chrysamere and I found that in a random dungeon while on my way to someplace else. Immediately made sure to install a reskin mod for that.

 

[Sarathiour]

Most loot in dungeon is utter trash, only set piece in few special dungeon are noteworthy, you can either forge, summon or just shank a daedra for the best weapon in the game, and pretty early on.

Are you trolling or were you seriously not aware that we are talking about Morrowind and not Skyrim? Best loot in Morrowind is from random dungeons, to find the best stuff you have to scour every inch of every dungeon because a lot of the loot is "hidden". Best weapon in the game, at least so far for me and my build is the two handed sword Chrysamere and I found that in a random dungeon while on my way to someplace else. Immediately made sure to install a reskin mod for that.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Bols_Indalen

 

[Vic]

Most loot in dungeon is utter trash, only set piece in few special dungeon are noteworthy, you can either forge, summon or just shank a daedra for the best weapon in the game, and pretty early on.

Are you trolling or were you seriously not aware that we are talking about Morrowind and not Skyrim? Best loot in Morrowind is from random dungeons, to find the best stuff you have to scour every inch of every dungeon because a lot of the loot is "hidden". Best weapon in the game, at least so far for me and my build is the two handed sword Chrysamere and I found that in a random dungeon while on my way to someplace else. Immediately made sure to install a reskin mod for that.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Bols_Indalen

100 hours and I haven't even touched alchemy, enchanting, nor the 2 expansions yet (just started Tribunal).

 

[Vic]

Only for the first 2-3 towns, after that you'll be abusing Divine/Almsivi Intervention and Mark/Recall and running to the siltstrider/mages guide. Fast travel is still possible like in Oblivion in this game but it's just more cumbersome as it now takes 5 steps to fast travel to any city instead of just 1 step like in Oblivion.

Most systems have been improved from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim.

Oblivion and Skyrim have a superior system because you can just click on a map? That's precisely what makes them so inferior. Morrowind's fast travel system is an actual game mechanic that the player needs to engage with. The player needs to learn the Silt Strider and boat routes to travel efficiently (that is, without wasting money) and also needs to learn how those two system interconnect, since some settlements are ONLY able to be travelled to by boat and others by Silt Strider. In addition to that, a big part of Mark and Recall is the decision-making attached to WHERE the player puts their Mark down. Is it their home? Their quest giver? Or is it some other point on the map that allows them to use Divine and Almsivi Intervention to travel around the island in the least possible steps? It's all well and good to stick your Mark down in front of Caius Cosades while you do the first part of the Main Quest, but Balmora is really easy to access by Silt Strider, so you're only saving yourself a small amount of gold and time walking from the strider port. One of the more interesting places to put down a Mark is actually in the Molag Amur region, where Divine Intervention takes you to Sadrith Mora, and Almsivi to Molag Mar. A Divine Intervention from Molag Mar then allows you to chain travel over to Ebonheart.

It's so much more in-depth and interesting than Oblivion and Skyrim's system, that to claim the latter are superior means you actually dislike video games or that you're being deliberately obtuse.

I usually use my Mark spell to a spot I know I'll be coming back again soon, like a quest giver, or when I want to go to town quickly to visit a temple/repair/stash loot while in a dungeon. And I agree the travel system is interesting at first but once you have figured it feels like it stands in my way. Say I wanna go from Balmora to Dagon Fel (example top of my head might not be 100% accurate). Now in Oblivion I could just click on the map and be there. In Morrowind I have to run up to the siltstrider, and take it to the closest city with a boat, which may require 1-2 travels. Then you have to run to the boat, and travel 1-3 times again to be in Dagon Fel, and you better keep in mind where all the towns are located because you can't travel directly from the farthest eastern to the farthest western city for example but have to take stops. So all in all to accomplish the same result of traveling from one city to the other, it takes just a few seconds in Oblivion. In Morrowind it takes a lot more steps which, if you know the game, are not fun to do and actually deter me from going places because it's annoying.

 

[luj1]

to find the best stuff you have to scour every inch of every dungeon because a lot of the loot is "hidden"

Can you imagine?

 

[luj1]

Now in Oblivion I could just click on the map and be there. In Morrowind I have to run up to the siltstrider, and take it to the closest city with a boat, which may require 1-2 travels. Then you have to run to the boat, and travel 1-3 times again to be in Dagon Fel, and you better keep in mind where all the towns are located because you can't travel directly from the farthest eastern to the farthest western city for example but have to take stops.

Just gonna leave this here for better visibility

 

[anvi]

Average Morrowind enjoyer:

Average skyrim enjoyer:

That's only true of those with social lives which is about 2%. Most people that age think the bots on social media are their friends.

 

[Vic]

to find the best stuff you have to scour every inch of every dungeon because a lot of the loot is "hidden"

Can you imagine?

^^^ This is not healthy game design because it creates a compulsion to check every corner of every dungeon because there MIGHT be something. Couple that with all the random loot that you can find all over, and not just gear, ancient dwemer coin which when you give to a vendor you effectively increase the amount he can buy, ancient dagoth brandy, gems, basically all those high value items that if you play the game as intended you want to collect, if you keep all of that in mind, they use these techniques to "hook" you on the exploration and dungeon delving. I don't think this is good game design, and the precursor to evil tactics like lootboxes etc. I know most people in this thread love and vehemently defend Morrowind but ultimately they use cheap tactics to get you to play because well their quests, story and dialogue are shit. Only good thing is what Kirkbride wrote but it's just in the form of books and well the overall world, which is great but the rest is a mix of broken systems and cheap gambling tactics. Anyway that's all I have to say on this topic, cheers.