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Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

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guys, why nobody is mentioning why elder scrolls are really so popular? It's a casino simulator! Think, morrowind was popular among kids and teens on the xbox, how to get kids hooked? With gambling of course! See that dungeon? Wonder what loot is in there. See that barrel? Wonder how item is in there. The whole elder scrolls series is a giant casino with all those lootable objects. If you really wanna play the game you have autistically open every crate, barrel, chest etc. in the game or, gasp, you might miss something. This creates addictive behavior.

You can level that criticism against the vast majority of RPGs.

It's incidental, but something to remember about Morrowind and the Elder Scrolls generally is that the Prisoner protagonists are social climbers who are advancing up the hierarchy of whatever province they find themselves in by questing for powerful organizations; they may like some of the people they work with and some of those people may like them, but they don't have (or want) friends (or love interests, except Skyrim in the most technical sense of the word), just co-workers, allies, collaborators, etc.

Middle Earth it ain't.
 
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LarryTyphoid

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I just started playing Morrowind and the combat is identical to previous TES games, which were identical to Ultima Underworld. I never hear any complaints of those games' combat. The bad combat meme is coming from people who played this game after Skyrim, or those who played it on Xbox as little kids, and are shocked that it has actual RPG combat (or as close as you can get with a real-time single-character game). The "but you can see the models intersecting" meme isn't even valid because you can hit enemies from way further away than the models would suggest. And spam-clicking actually decreases your accuracy, just like in Ultima Underworld - it's just that Morrowind doesn't make it as clear, to its detriment.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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I just started playing Morrowind and the combat is identical to previous TES games, which were identical to Ultima Underworld. I never hear any complaints of those games' combat. The bad combat meme is coming from people who played this game after Skyrim, or those who played it on Xbox as little kids, and are shocked that it has actual RPG combat (or as close as you can get with a real-time single-character game). The "but you can see the models intersecting" meme isn't even valid because you can hit enemies from way further away than the models would suggest. And spam-clicking actually decreases your accuracy, just like in Ultima Underworld - it's just that Morrowind doesn't make it as clear, to its detriment.
Yes, the same people complaining about Morrowind's combat being "terrible" are also proposing that Fallout: New Vegas would have been better as a straight FPS, without RPG elements to its combat. Someone could justifiably criticize the combat of real-time RPGs in general versus turn-based tactics, but Morrowind is not an action RPG and should not be dismissed for having proper RPG randomness and dependence on character skills, rather than the determinism and dependence on the player's physical skills of an action game.
 

Desiderius

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guys, why nobody is mentioning why elder scrolls are really so popular? It's a casino simulator! Think, morrowind was popular among kids and teens on the xbox, how to get kids hooked? With gambling of course! See that dungeon? Wonder what loot is in there. See that barrel? Wonder how item is in there. The whole elder scrolls series is a giant casino with all those lootable objects. If you really wanna play the game you have autistically open every crate, barrel, chest etc. in the game or, gasp, you might miss something. This creates addictive behavior.

You can level that criticism against the vast majority of RPGs.

It's incidental, but something to remember about Morrowind and the Elder Scrolls generally is that the Prisoner protagonists are social climbers who are advancing up the hierarchy of whatever province they find themselves in by questing for powerful organizations; they may like some of the people they work with and some of those people may like them, but they don't have (or want) friends (or love interests, except Skyrim in the most technical sense of the word), just co-workers, allies, collaborators, etc.

Middle Earth it ain't.
That’s polytheistic societies for you.
 

Vic

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it has actual RPG combat
you're shitting me, right?

And spam-clicking actually decreases your accuracy

The combat, much like everything else in the game is broken. Loot the first dark brotherhood assassin that comes after you, sell his gear to the Caldera Creeper, and train your main weapon skill up to lvl 100, and you're done. Yes it's boring but the fact that this is possible just breaks the game, and if you wanna get all skills to max level you will be using those trainers anyway.

All of these complains of slow walking speed and not being able to hit target come from noobs/kids. This game is fundamentally broken.
 

Commissar Draco

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If you spam attacking button you run quickly from stamina and hit actually with less less power and accuracy, I started to play Morrowind again with some basic fun patches and graphic extender and the game is even better now with all the disappointment the Oblivion and Skyrim were.

TES was good for what it was some intresting lore about Reman era empire was interesting but I got bored after doing the campaign.
 
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LarryTyphoid

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The combat, much like everything else in the game is broken. Loot the first dark brotherhood assassin that comes after you, sell his gear to the Caldera Creeper, and train your main weapon skill up to lvl 100, and you're done. Yes it's boring but the fact that this is possible just breaks the game, and if you wanna get all skills to max level you will be using those trainers anyway.

All of these complains of slow walking speed and not being able to hit target come from noobs/kids. This game is fundamentally broken.
You can say that about any of the TES games, except maybe Skyrim. A specific exploit stemming from poor DLC integration does not indicate that the game is entirely broken. Is that really worse than the busted custom class creation of Daggerfall? Putting aside the many possible exploits in the progression systems (which you could simply refrain from using if you so wished), the point stands that Morrowind's combat isn't any different from the games that preceded it.

I'm not a member of the Morrowind defense force or anything, since I just started playing it, but as someone who has actually played Arena, Daggerfall, and Ultima Underworld, I immediately saw the complaints about this game's combat as what they were: the whining of retards who are complaining that it's an RPG and not a conventional action game. Maybe the action RPG style of games like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 is superior, but Morrowind is a direct sequel to Arena and Daggerfall, and it's ridiculous to criticize it for having the same combat as those games.

The one valid complaint anyone could have is that you have to spam the left mouse button, but that isn't even true because timed strikes are more accurate and stamina-efficient. If Bethesda had properly explained this (or, better yet, forbade spam-clicking altogether, as Ultima Underworld did), then it would have helped a lot of people enjoy the game more, but Bethesda has been sloppy with this kind of thing since their inception, so it's not a big surprise.
 

Jaedar

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The one valid complaint anyone could have is that you have to spam the left mouse button, but that isn't even true because timed strikes are more accurate and stamina-efficient.
Afaik, the damage you deal also depends on how long you 'hold' the strike. Most weapons have damage ranges on the style of 1-30, and if you spam you're always at the lower end of that, whereas if you hold you are always at the upper end.

It is poorly explained though.
 

perfectslumbers

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The problem with Morrowinds combat is mostly shit animations and sound effects (the games sound effects are bad in general, thanks to them entirely running out of money.) Mechanically it's pretty close to the old games which functioned perfectly fine, mechanically wise the big problem is your attacking resource is also the "move faster than a snail" resource so ambushes in the open world feel bad.

Imo Morrowind is the best story told in any video game, even slightly edging out Planescape: Torment. But it's actual writing and storytelling is pretty inconsistent since it's a huge open world game. The game itself isn't really fun to play at any point to me, but it is satisfying thanks to the long term growth and the extremes you can reach with your character. Also Tribunal is the worst content in the entire series.
 

NecroLord

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The one valid complaint anyone could have is that you have to spam the left mouse button, but that isn't even true because timed strikes are more accurate and stamina-efficient.
Afaik, the damage you deal also depends on how long you 'hold' the strike. Most weapons have damage ranges on the style of 1-30, and if you spam you're always at the lower end of that, whereas if you hold you are always at the upper end.

It is poorly explained though.
Also there are 3 attack types.
Thrust,Slash and Chop.
You gotta check each weapon and see with what attack type it works best.
For example:
Spears - Thrust. Maces,hammers,axes - Chop.
Yeah,you gotta hold down the attack button for a bit to do full damage. Not merely press it.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Thrust,Slash and Chop.
You gotta check each weapon and see with what attack type it works best.
For example:
Spears - Thrust. Maces,hammers,axes - Chop.
Yeah,you gotta hold down the attack button for a bit to do full damage. Not merely press it.
Yup, I've been stabbing with my short blade and it does appear to be more effective than slashing or chopping (yet another holdover from UUW). Morrowind, in this regard, is superior to the first two TES games, in which you can quite easily hold the right mouse button and then just flail your mouse around with no regard for attack direction (and trying to use one attack type consistently in those games is a pain: if you wanted to repeatedly stab, then you have to move the mouse up, then move it back down your mousepad before the animation ends, and then repeat, which gets old pretty quickly).
 

Butter

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I don't recall Morrowind even allowing you to choose your attack type the way UUW does. If you spam left clicks you'll see a variety of thrusts, chops, and swings. It seems entirely random, which is why the "always use best attack" option exists.
 

MWaser

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I don't recall Morrowind even allowing you to choose your attack type the way UUW does. If you spam left clicks you'll see a variety of thrusts, chops, and swings. It seems entirely random, which is why the "always use best attack" option exists.
Well then you're highly underinformed. Morrowind's Attack Direction is based on the way you're currently moving (forward-backwards is stab, sideways is slash and diagonal/standing still is chop)
 

Vic

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this is what I mean, people who defend this games have a negative IQ. There is a setting in the menue to "always use best attack", so you don't break your fucking wrist doing autistic mouse movements, real RPG combat lmao

by the way, I just recently clocked almost 100 hours in that game so my criticism that it's a broken mess comes from my recent experience with it, not something I played as a kid.

o3zzzf6.jpeg
 

MWaser

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this is what I mean, people who defend this games have a negative IQ. There is a setting in the menue to "always use best attack", so you don't break your fucking wrist doing autistic mouse movements, real RPG combat lmao

by the way, I just recently clocked almost 100 hours in that game so my criticism that it's a broken mess comes from my recent experience with it, not something I played as a kid.

o3zzzf6.jpeg
I hope you don't break your wrist over masturbating to your own intellectual enlightenment.
 

perfectslumbers

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by the way, I just recently clocked almost 100 hours in that game so my criticism that it's a broken mess comes from my recent experience with it, not something I played as a kid.
100 hours but not enough experience to realise that mouse movement has nothing to do with what attack you use in combat
 

Vic

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by the way, I just recently clocked almost 100 hours in that game so my criticism that it's a broken mess comes from my recent experience with it, not something I played as a kid.
100 hours but not enough experience to realise that mouse movement has nothing to do with what attack you use in combat
Oh, that's right, it's not like in daggerfall but based on your movement, meh, like I said I use the "always use best attack" option so I didn't even remember how it plays without it.

By the way, 100 hours and I haven't even touched alchemy, enchanting, nor the 2 expansions yet (just started Tribunal). And only did 2 factions. I didn't claim to be a morrowind pro after 100 hours, this game is massive. Just stated my experience from which I derive my criticism that almost all systems in this game are broken, and it uses way too much random loot to make you addicted. Like I said, I didn't even touch alchemy yet. Combat at my level has been a joke for the past 15 levels or so. Everything dies in 1-2 hits, well except in the Tribunal expansion I'm getting killed by trolls in the sewers so that's nice. For base game tho I'll have to look for a combat overhaul mod.

Also, the mod UI Expansion is a must in my opinion because it greys out dialogue options if they have nothing new to say, so you don't have to read the same lines of dialogue over and over, it's not perfect but a massive improvement over vanilla.
 
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perfectslumbers

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Combat at my level has been a joke for the past 15 levels or so.
Yeah combat gets easy really quick in Morrowind, not sure what level you are but once you hit 22 the base game won't level scale enemy spawns past that.
 

luj1

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Daymn I've yet to get into Morrowind. Did play Oblivion and Skyrim substantially, but never finished either.

I played it on release and it still blows my mind.

You could interact with anything, starting from toothpicks and forks and knives or loot every basket or sack of potatoes. Tons of manually placed statics made the world feel logical and alive. You can see some games such as KCD use that to same effect today.

Travelling from one settlement to another was like going from planet to planet. It took forever and felt like a real journey. And every small battle along the way was risky, even a tiny worm could beat the shit out of you.

The story was great because the world itself was telling its own story. You didn't need to listen to anybody or do any quests, you could have just travel around and read books and look at different architecture and talk to random people (yes, the famous wikipedia critique of Morrowind; but it works).

There was absolutely zero pressure on you to do anything. I could go to some unknown village right from the start and steal forks or potatoes. Or explore dungeons or whatever. Or go into a volcano and get raped by ash vampires.

Dungeons were creepy and the closer you were to Red Mountain (central region / endgame) it felt like having a fevered dream. Of course you could have went there on level 1 or 2. If you had access to levitation magick via potions or scrolls, you could access advanced content right away. Nothing was off bars.

I think the major success of Morrowind was that it was difficult and rewarding. You could feel yourself grow from a peasant to a god. And the whole world changed and reacted to you. And there was never pressure on you. No voice acting, no stupid companions, no cutscenes, etc. You were alone and had all the time in the world, even staring at a wall in Morrowind felt good.
 
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