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why the hate on BG3

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
But yeah, I had a hard time coming up with even a faux reason for why Fallout 1 would be bad. Same with Deus Ex, is there anyone who can tell me why Deus Ex is shit?
Codexers are way too forgiving of bugs in classic games that have fan patches. This applies more to Troika, but Fallout 1 and Deus Ex are still pretty rough in some areas.
Fallout 1 is my favorite game ever, but a common criticism is that it is way, way too short to the point of being more of a tech demo than a fully fledged game (I consider this a strong positive because I think cRPGs are far too long). Fans of Fallout 2's approach to the world and material also consider it tonally one-note (again, to me another strength).

Deus Ex is harder. Basically people who don't like immersive sims dislike it because it is the genre peak, but even though sales suggest most gamers are lukewarm on or actively dislike immersive sims, immersive sims are rarely criticized comprehensively because it's impossible to do so without sounding like a casual. So, anyone who cares enough to be a Deus Ex detractor (barely anyone anymore) hates it for some fussy or particular reason. I suppose a few people might dislike it because it isn't shooty enough (like a Doom clone) or stealthy enough (like Thief), ergo, the focus on multiple approaches undermines the mechanics of either actually being fun (that's kind of immersive sims though).
 
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Frozen

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I wish they made Divinity III instead of this desperate cash grab targeted at 40+yo losers.

First original sin was great, I really couldnt get into second. When Kiril died this company died. Whoeverthufuck is making music now has ZERO talent.

BG story is over, why even call this BG? Its beyond stupid.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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Who would Divinity 3 be targeted at?

I think BG3 is targeted right at the 15 year olds and that's what's making it so cringe to the 40 year old losers camp. For BG spiritual successors with intellectual pretentions, see Josh Sawyer.
 

Serious_Business

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Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength

Probably said this quote already but fuck it, it's a good one.

This thing about aiming for a target audience definitively is market speech. You only imagine your audience through statistics when you're looking to "tap" a certain source of profits. Otherwise I would assume it has little hold on the creative process. I don't think Larian are cynical enough to think about things this way. The real question to me is wether or not designers actually play games, and what games do they play ; it is quite possible than when going "professional" they don't want to game anymore in their free time. That creates a disconnect with the players. You don't have the for players by players orientation, the feeling that the game really was designed as something the designers themselves want to play. This is when it becomes a product. It's all downhill from there, most of the time.
 
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the feeling that the game really was designed as something the designers themselves want to play. This is when it becomes a product.
Nothing that carries the D&D label will be a labor of love, ever. It's a licensed product, with strict limits and barriers for creative thinking because everything has to be approved by commitee. So you have the barrier of the playtesters, and then you have the barrier of the suits upstairs. It's very likely that Wizards just said "Okay Swen, just focus on making Divinity 3, but make it a D&D game instead".
 
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the feeling that the game really was designed as something the designers themselves want to play. This is when it becomes a product.
Nothing that carries the D&D label will be a labor of love, ever. It's a licensed product, with strict limits and barriers for creative thinking because everything has to be approved by commitee. So you have the barrier of the playtesters, and then you have the barrier of the suits upstairs. It's very likely that Wizards just said "Okay Swen, just focus on making Divinity 3, but make it a D&D game instead".
The existence of the IE games is a direct refutation to your statement. If you qualify your statement for anything 4E or later, you might have a case.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
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3,324
the feeling that the game really was designed as something the designers themselves want to play. This is when it becomes a product.
Nothing that carries the D&D label will be a labor of love, ever. It's a licensed product, with strict limits and barriers for creative thinking because everything has to be approved by commitee. So you have the barrier of the playtesters, and then you have the barrier of the suits upstairs. It's very likely that Wizards just said "Okay Swen, just focus on making Divinity 3, but make it a D&D game instead".
The existence of the IE games is a direct refutation to your statement. If you qualify your statement for anything 4E or later, you might have a case.
It depends. I don't know if people "loved" working on those games per se. Maybe they did. Maybe Larian people are loving working on BG3 more than what Black Isle loved working on PST, and I'm pretty sure that is a fact because it had a very rough development process. One thing is what you think about the games and another is what the developers think, though. We don't know. But we do know that in both cases the devs were restrained by the limits of a licensed product.
 

gamerguy

Educated
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Feb 10, 2023
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165
it's a kickstarter that costs $60 for the last two years... there's a stupid low level cap, and still doesn't have a functioning save system from day to day

i hate that dev, but i bet it's good eventually... waiting for the goty/dlc edition in ten more years


maybe someone will mod the shitty camera by then
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"Nothing that carries the D&D label will be a labor of love, ever. It's a licensed product, with strict limits and barriers for creative thinking because everything has to be approved by commitee. So you have the barrier of the playtesters, and then you have the barrier of the suits upstairs. It's very likely that Wizards just said "Okay Swen, just focus on making Divinity 3, but make it a D&D game instead"."

FAKE NEWS.

BG's existence shows this.

Unlike TOEE where its biggest flaws were blamed on the original module. Talk about laziness. "The writing for the town sucks because the module sucks." Ummm... no. Pnp modules are purpsoefully written vaguely because it is the fukkin' DM's job to fill that shit in. The reason why TOEE was/is a popular pnp module because pnp DMs knew they actually had to work to make it worthwhile. Troika just throught getting maybe the basics of dnd stats correctly would somehow make the game great. L0L

That said, I'd make the argument more and more companies like WOTC are forcing things down people throats so there are more controls and lmits in modern times. I doubt WOTC was hovering over BIO's throats while BG was being made.

That said, Swenshit and co are just as woke and progessive as the SJW Nazis at WOTC so there is no pushback.

On top of that, it's not BG3. It's DOS3 with a DnD reskin. It'll be solid game but it wont be BG. (and, no, it's not ebcause of turn based... as a long time BG fan, I am absolutely fine with turn based being in the game). It's the other DOS inspired shit, and the other woke inspired shit that will keep this game being at BG2's level. And, that's the standard. If they dont have an AThkalta, and they dont have an Irenicus, and if they dont have a ridiculous amount of spells that do all sort of shit, fuick off. If they can't have memorable varied npcs (ie. not all woke crap) then double fukk off.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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6,372
If they can't have memorable varied npcs (ie. not all woke crap) then double fukk off.
Have you seen the NPCs/companions?
Looks like someone hired and modeled a bunch of reddit moderators into the game.
Instead of some badass old school Sword&Sorcery tier D&D characters, you get a bunch of whiny faggaloons.

Agreed, I don't play goddamn games set in fantasy settings for "realistic" characters written by millennials with no life experience.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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8qMlwC1.jpg

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eG5aZqz.jpg

rK6oDw8.jpg

JzSrrYP.jpg


The very queer fruity underwear.
 
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ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But yeah, I had a hard time coming up with even a faux reason for why Fallout 1 would be bad. Same with Deus Ex, is there anyone who can tell me why Deus Ex is shit?
Codexers are way too forgiving of bugs in classic games that have fan patches. This applies more to Troika, but Fallout 1 and Deus Ex are still pretty rough in some areas.
Fallout 1 is my favorite game ever, but a common criticism is that it is way, way too short to the point of being more of a tech demo than a fully fledged game (I consider this a strong positive because I think cRPGs are far too long). Fans of Fallout 2's approach to the world and material also consider it tonally one-note (again, to me another strength).

Deus Ex is harder. Basically people who don't like immersive sims dislike it because it is the genre peak, but even though sales suggest most gamers are lukewarm on or actively dislike immersive sims, immersive sims are rarely criticized comprehensively because it's impossible to do so without sounding like a casual. So, anyone who cares enough to be a Deus Ex detractor (barely anyone anymore) hates it for some fussy or particular reason. I suppose a few people might dislike it because it isn't shooty enough (like a Doom clone) or stealthy enough (like Thief), ergo, the focus on multiple approaches undermines the mechanics of either actually being fun (that's kind of immersive sims though).
Fallout 1 has braindead combat, the writing that I saw in the first two hours of the game was incredibily bland and poor, the color palette in the game felt dead/unimaginative, and using the map to visit new zones/areas felt really shitty. In general, I dislike that kind of exploration. Those are a few flaws right there.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Bjørgvin
Nothing that carries the D&D label will be a labor of love, ever.
I remember Dr. Ray was a regular in the .comp.sys...rpg newsgroup while Baldur's Gate was in development. I got the impression he was really passionate about the game. But of course, that was before he became a corporate automaton talking about monetization.
 

baba is you

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No. I'm not a freaking chatbot.
D:OS 1-2 were systematically good, but the writing was so awful that I gave up on D:OS 1 halfway through, and I never found the story or companions to be very compelling in D:OS 2.
My worry about Baldur's Gate 3 is the story part. Based on my experience so far, it's clear that Larian doesn't have a good writer.

Other than that, it's probably the best Baldur's Gate in terms of system and interaction. :-D
 

Norfleet

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Joined
Jun 3, 2005
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12,250
using the map to visit new zones/areas felt really shitty.
Using the map to visit new zones is entirely realistic. Have you ever tried to visit a new zone or area in real life? What do you do? That's right, you use your fucking map. Otherwise you get lost, crash into a ditch, and get your face chewed off by wolves. I mean, you COULD ask somebody for directions, but what are you, some kind of WOMAN? Use your fucking map! Maps are MANLY.

Also, it's either map and overworld travel, a world that ends up being painfully tiny if you ever get a good look at it and is thus shrouded in strangely steep mountains, strangely tall woods, and mysterious fog to keep you from ever doing so, or that game where you literally hike for over 2 hours to get anywhere.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Using the map to visit new zones is entirely realistic.
I never said it wasn't realistic. I said it feels like shit.
Also, it's either map and overworld travel, a world that ends up being painfully tiny if you ever get a good look at it and is thus shrouded in strangely steep mountains, strangely tall woods, and mysterious fog to keep you from ever doing so, or that game where you literally hike for over 2 hours to get anywhere.
I never said all maps are terrible, I just said that I dislike how it was implemented in Fallout. Baldurs Gate uses a map and traveling/exploring works quite well.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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Messages
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using the map to visit new zones/areas felt really shitty.
Using the map to visit new zones is entirely realistic. Have you ever tried to visit a new zone or area in real life? What do you do? That's right, you use your fucking map. Otherwise you get lost, crash into a ditch, and get your face chewed off by wolves. I mean, you COULD ask somebody for directions, but what are you, some kind of WOMAN? Use your fucking map! Maps are MANLY.


Maybe you need a better map.
 

Goldschmidt

Learned
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Everything has already been said and done.

If you loved Divinity Original Sin, than Baldur's Gate 3 will be the best game evar. And since many liked DOS, I am sure BG 3 will win many awards.

Otherwise seek your entertainment elsewhere, which I will do.

What is there more to say? I dunno.
 

Incendax

Augur
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Messages
892
If you loved Divinity Original Sin, than Baldur's Gate 3 will be the best game evar. And since many liked DOS, I am sure BG 3 will win many awards.

What is there more to say? I dunno.
I loved DOS2 combat and think BG3 combat is going to be fucking dull by comparison. Mostly the martials. Whoever decided that martials should just autoattack instead of doing interesting shit like spellcasters should be taken out back and shot. 4E actually made a huge step forward in this area, then they went backwards for 5E and martials can't do anything anymore.

I know BG3 got real brave and added weapon maneuvers. That's great! But it's still no DOS2 melee badassery.
 

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