Wizardry Wizardry 8 - first time playing

[Desiderius]

Pwned this game so hard I can’t even make myself play it now even though my boys love it.

Clearly as much as you've allegedly "pwned the game so hard" you've never tried a crit focused party because you're just spewing diarrhea.
"Crits suck with full party", "gadgeteer is good" wtf lol, gtfo you puffed up dildo.

Crits suck on level is just common wisdom among the still lively community around this great game. I don’t know what to tell you - the math just isn’t there to overcome on level death resist. It’s simply obvious from playing the game.

No one questions the utility of Gadge late, it’s the early game experience/Omnigun that people are skeptical about.

That’s solved by using consumables (Duct Tape and Noisemakers) until the good Gadgets show up (which isn’t long - Lava Lamp is great and Lightning Rod is fine). Before that is the window to get Weapon skill up.

Omnigun (my preference), XBow, or melee all get there with a properly buffed party and debuffed foes. On Gun use Impaling Stones to make it relevant until it can use Arrows/Bolts. Those are available at Umpani direct from Monastery. Before that use special Knives and Darts you come across once you can.

BTW fear is a debuff (easier to hit/penetrate/skill up) and Sonic Boom a relatively hard to resist spell/ability. Use Noisemakers. Duct Tape is the opposite, plentiful but easier to resist.

Put Gadge earlyish in party order to soften up targets for attackers before they can flee. You’ll soon have Lava Lamp and Port-o-Potty. Blind is also a big debuff, and those will start showing up on the Omnigun hits mid/late.

Saxx goes early in party order so don’t sleep on Flash Powder setting up hits. He starts with good throwing and its worth it to skill up for Bombs and Powders.

 

[Desiderius]

Game is obviously solvable (and solved) and there are different ways to solve it depending on your goals. Every class has a role to play in at least one of those.

I love Priest in a no Psionics party until I get to Rapax. Priest, Psi, Ranger, Sam, Bard, Gadge is very doable though. With that party Sam needs to take a Mage level at lvl five to get its schools going or you’ll be late getting the Wiz buffs covered.

 

[Desiderius]

- High lvl Bless can be casted by Bard from insturment you find at the very beginning. Unitl you find Haste drums this will be his first turn in every fight
- Armorplate is taken care of by Vi, or your own Valk. Sure it'll be casted on lower lvl than by pure Priest, but it's not a game changer, Plus it's out-of-combat buff, so earth realm will go up pretty fast. There's also a gadget but afaik it comes pretty late.
- Magic Screen can be taken care of by Bard, which will cast it on high lvl, or again by Valk. By the time that you'll really need it you'll be able to cast it on decent enough level.
- Soul Shield - this is the most tricky one, as you need either Psionic (another crappy class) or 2-school Bishop with psion spellbook. Bard NPC has insturment with it, but am not sure if you can steal it from him.

Beside those above you really don't need anything else. Superman is nice, but you'll find shitload of potions with it. Higher tier spells are utter shit.

Angel’s Tongue is fine but the opportunity cost is high. Bard has debuff instruments it can use if Priest is handling Bless. Humans are weak to Air, and Sleeping mobs are lot easier to hit/penetrate. Bard goes later in party order than Priest. Obv having Saxx in party has to be taken into account.

Again, hybrids are so late you’re comparing apples to oranges and with 125 cap in school will always lag dedicated caster on effect. Armorplate Gadget is available from Crock which isn’t very late if you’re going thru Mine Tunnels at lvl 8 IIRC (no Tantos).

Priest is weird in that it doesn’t really have a secondary stat (other than INT) so can even unlock Power Strike and fight with Staves if you want.

Dude, classes and spells aren’t shit - you are. Play better.

Psi and Priest can be annoying because they have schools with no top end to build to (and Priest Fire is all top end) so lack the staying power that Mage/Bishop/Alch have late to just keep pouring high end nukes.

Psi has unique spells that make up for that (Rapax weak to Mental for instance) and Priest gets whole party skilled up way faster which gives you a lot more flexibility (Bard weapon skills all start at zero so need the help), then at the end max Falling Stars at max Powercast and 125 School is pretty damn good while it has other things to cover in the other schools.

MDP guys end up getting there on melee even with Mages so whatever.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Man, calm the fuck down.

Game is pretty well balanced™ and can be beat on hard/ironman with tons of party combinations, but that doesn't mean that some classes are worse than others, and it's not matter of skill etc. Priest is objectively worse than Valk - sure you can make him work and be happy with his performance, but this doesn't change the fact that you'd be better with Valk, or divinity/psion Bishop. There's just not enough incentive for having higher level divinity spells earlier.

 

[Black]

Man, calm the fuck down.

Shut the fuck up and let them argue.

 

[Nirvash]

Man, calm the fuck down.

Game is pretty well balanced™ and can be beat on hard/ironman with tons of party combinations, but that doesn't mean that some classes are worse than others, and it's not matter of skill etc. Priest is objectively worse than Valk - sure you can make him work and be happy with his performance, but this doesn't change the fact that you'd be better with Valk, or divinity/psion Bishop. There's just not enough incentive for having higher level divinity spells earlier.

You have a 8 man party, no need to optimize with hybrids.
Bishops are not so good healers due to being frail and/or slow.

Is better to have a wolf/dwarf/human priest, with vit/speed/piety build and armor+shield, they can also help the frontline until you get the robot if you want it.

A valk can't heal for shit, only really good for out of combat recovery and being a side tank/melee with spears.

 

[Desiderius]

Man, calm the fuck down.

Game is pretty well balanced™ and can be beat on hard/ironman with tons of party combinations, but that doesn't mean that some classes are worse than others, and it's not matter of skill etc. Priest is objectively worse than Valk - sure you can make him work and be happy with his performance, but this doesn't change the fact that you'd be better with Valk, or divinity/psion Bishop. There's just not enough incentive for having higher level divinity spells earlier.

I’m perfectly calm.

You have classes you like for the way you like to play the game. Just stop making sweeping statements that don’t apply to the other ways the game has been solved dipshit.

I play Valk because Vi is central to the plot. It’s meh, not gamebreaking, but if you like to max out on melee combat knock yourself out. Doesn’t mean MDP is “second tier” or that hurr durr nukes suck or whatever. If you like crits make a Monk, Ranger, Ninja, Sam party to outlevel the mobs and go off.

Great games aren’t one-dimensional. There is no ladder or endgame raids. Your tiers are retarded.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

Game is easy enough as it is so frequent crits (instant kills) will just spoil the fun of seeing foes taking heavy damage, recoiling and getting wounds from your hits

 

[coldcrow]

Zboj Lamignat I was exxagerating, of course. Ranger is good for not having to invest into CS. A critical strike party optimized for # of attacks is fun to build and takes off very slowly, but when it does it becomes a railgun projectile.

 

[cvv]

Game is easy enough as it is so frequent crits will just spoil the fun of seeing foes taking heavy damage, recoiling and getting wounds from your hits

Fair enough but I had my best fun with the game when I specifically tested the power of a crit-focused party, imported across from W6 and W7. Seeing all those obnoxious beefcakes go pop like party balloons made me giddy. But then it got so easy I was bored for the last 50 hours, sad.

 

[Desiderius]

Zboj Lamignat I was exxagerating, of course. Ranger is good for not having to invest into CS. A critical strike party optimized for # of attacks is fun to build and takes off very slowly, but when it does it becomes a railgun projectile.

Everything played well does that. Some things get there faster and with less grinding than others.

I was wrong to say crits suck in general. They suck the way I like to play (8 toons for RP reasons completionist* tinman with no grinding) since leveling is slower that way.

With fewer members or lots of grinding it can get there sooner.

* - keeps consumables supplied for one thing

 

[Nikanuur]

Damn, I've never been able to finish Wiz VIII myself. I usually end up somewhere around Rapax's, and forget about it because of something new.
But I would like to! I like both VII and VIII!
Aww, now I am all sad.

 

[jackofshadows]

There is no ladder or endgame raids. Your tiers are retarded.

I agree that making class tiers for a single player game is silly but it's also - imagine that - fun, as minmaxxing in SP games for some as well. So listen to your own advice and don't deny fun to others. Btw it seems to me that you find fun in making the most out of stuff people consider underwhelming (judging roughly by some of your other post in owlcat threads) which is actually great if so. People often tend to stick to the meta even if it's wrong. Not this time though, priest sucks dicks. I can give you that it also depends on the overall party composition. Like, for 8 man party priest look much better than say for 3-4 man party.

Aww, now I am all sad.

By Krishna, you're such a fag it's unreal. I'm keep forgetting that.

P.S. I need to unwatch this thread ASAP otherwise it's gonna be another motherfucking replay of this game.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, a Priest buffing seven dudes, or setting them up for easy hits, is better than only buffing two. Priest is at its best bringing stragglers at fighting (hybrids/Bard/Gadge) up to speed but with smaller parties it’s less needed because you’re just overleveled.

The reason there’s no NPC Priest is because having one in the lead-off spot in an 8-man party would be too good. Instead the kill-stealers go there.

Playing different games.

 

[Desiderius]

BTW I’m assuming you’re dumping INT on Bard /Gadge (Powercast doesn’t do anything) and not leveling VIT or PIE. STR and prereqs gives enough Stamina. That leaves other options open. I like Eagle Eye w/Omnigun, but Reflextion plus Shield isn’t bad either.

Bard has some handy skills with SEN as prereq and of course Modern Weapon does too.

 

[Desiderius]

I need to unwatch this thread ASAP otherwise it's gonna be another motherfucking replay of this game.

No shit.

*I* got annoyed with Priest last time I ran one but I sucked more then. I understand better what it can do now. Guess I’ll do another run with my boys in a year or two.