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World of Warcraft: Dragon Desperation

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,295
This is a big part of the reason why games like Dragon Age turned into shit. Stop censoring yourself cuz a few people get upset with dark fantasy in dark fantasy games.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,484
This is a big part of the reason why games like Dragon Age turned into shit. Stop censoring yourself cuz a few people get upset with dark fantasy in dark fantasy games.
Yeah, that quest where you can get that elf who asks for help killed by a werewolf and sleep with his girlfriend was hilarious. :lol:
 

Tyrr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
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I bet Bioware will retcon Darkspawn reproduction in DA4.
The flashbacks in the Broodmother quest in DA:O were really something.
 

Myobi

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Feb 26, 2016
Messages
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The flashbacks in the Broodmother quest in DA:O were really something.

The captured women contract the taint by being force-fed darkspawn tissue, and the darkspawn forcefully "spew" into the prisoners' mouths. At this point Hespith describes the women who survive as being "violated", presumably raped.[2] As this happens they gradually develop cannibalistic urges and mutate heavily, eventually becoming full-fledged broodmothers after devouring massive quantities of flesh. Even their own kin are not exempt; they will be devoured regardless.

Broodmothers give birth to vast litters of Darkspawn, between twenty to fifty infants.[3] They emerge from her womb as toddlers, often already able to walk, and grow rapidly in their first few weeks of life. A broodmother will birth thousands of darkspawn young in her lifetime.

The race of the broodmother determines which kind of darkspawn she gives birth to. An elven broodmother will spawn shrieks, a dwarven broodmother spawns genlocks, a human broodmother spawns hurlocks, and a Qunari or kossith broodmother spawns ogres.

It's what really got me into Dragon Age, just how everything was fucked up, dark spawn, blood magic, slavery... it was a fucking mess of a place.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
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bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
This is a big part of the reason why games like Dragon Age turned into shit. Stop censoring yourself cuz a few people get upset with dark fantasy in dark fantasy games.
I'm upset that this was written into the game in the first place, not that it was removed. Removing it, as long as its replaced by actual good side plots, will be an improvement.
 

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,295
I'm upset that this was written into the game in the first place

This specific quest, or the lore? I can't talk for the quest itself since I haven't touched the game since Shadowderps, but if its the lore, you probably feel upset about it because they gave her a big tiddie waifu form, because I have a hard time believing that in a game called “WARCRAFT” where we have genocide, torture, slavery, mind control, chemical warfare and what the fuck not, is all fine, but force breeding a magical lizard for an army is where we draw the line.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
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Codex Year of the Donut
This specific quest, or the lore?
The idea that in order to have a nostalgia quest for the old players, and a lore introduction quest for the new players, we'll have the player go and ensure a liked character gets tortured. The sale character is a quest giver, by the way. So travel back in time to make sure she gets raped, and then go back to the present to to chores for her. After having ensured he gets raped. Very weird.

So no, not upset because its le grimdark, but upset because its dull. It doesn't induce nostalgia in old players who know and like the character, and just weirds out new players who aren't into that.
 

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,295
This specific quest, or the lore?
The idea that in order to have a nostalgia quest for the old players, and a lore introduction quest for the new players, we'll have the player go and ensure a liked character gets tortured. The sale character is a quest giver, by the way. So travel back in time to make sure she gets raped, and then go back to the present to to chores for her. After having ensured he gets raped. Very weird.

So no, not upset because its le grimdark, but upset because its dull. It doesn't induce nostalgia in old players who know and like the character, and just weirds out new players who aren't into that.

Yeah,if its poorly written and implemented it can get pretty cringy really fucking fast, but alas can't comment much on that since I haven't touched WoW since Shadowderps, but being poorly written and implemented is something that doesn't come as much of a surprise coming from Blizzard nowadays.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,484
Asking players to murder Vancleef, whose goal was to make the nobles pay their workers as promised, was far more reprehensible than anything to protect the timeline.
 

Elttharion

Educated
Joined
Jan 10, 2023
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660
Asking players to murder Vancleef, whose goal was to make the nobles pay their workers as promised, was far more reprehensible than anything to protect the timeline.
Thats just Blizzard telling their workers what would have happened if they unionized
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
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4,900
Asking players to murder Vancleef, whose goal was to make the nobles pay their workers as promised, was far more reprehensible than anything to protect the timeline.
Then in a later expansion they tell you to go murder his daughter that watched you murder Vancleef.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
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4qNiJQ1.jpg


Dawn of the Infinite - Mythic Megadungeon

New patch has dropped, bringing with it a new mythic difficulty only megadungeon. Unlike prior mythic megadungeons, this one does not have an optional hardmode. Instead this dungeon is simply tuned to be hard. The intermediate difficulty is just gone.

I am an ilevel 422 prot paladin, had been doing 11s and 12s before stepping foot into this with my 422 ret pally friend.

Spent three hours progging on this thus far with a friend in PUGs. We were stuck on the first boss for an hour and a half, during that time a couple people left and had to be replaced. You want the five players to drop the puddles along the wall, try to stack them as closely together without double stacking a puddle on a player or else they will die. After that, everyone moves towards the middle for the big leaps. Only one player should soak the little AoEs after each leap. Then go back towards the edge of the arena. Hardest part is that he has a tank buster that will give the tank negative health and heavily nerfs the healing he receives. Popping Lay on Hands is not enough to heal through the deficit and you can only use lay on hands once every 6 minutes, and the healer alone often does not have big heals available since those CDs had to be popped on the other members of the party. Here you really want help from your fellow paladins if they can use their heals on you too.

After that two people left and had to be replaced. Spent 45 minutes on the second boss, got him down to 75% before we decided to adjourn for the night. Since I was the tank I was running laps around the boss in the red lane for the 20% damage reduction. Again the conal tankbuster (Unwind) hits hard and it's hard to aim it away from the party given that people are running every which way. One guy was running left so I ran right to aim away from him only to then realize that I got the healer killed, who I did not see. Another time I tried standing still so I wouldn't accidentally hit anyone but then the healer ran behind me and got killed by the tankbuster.

My friend is unsure whether or not he wants to finish this since he thinks it will take at least a couple dozen more hours to PUG prog through the whole megadungeon.



I haven't done a Time Rift yet but this afternoon I got 2 lootboxes and an achievement while waiting at the summoning stone for the megadungeon.

KaHNhgQ.gif
 
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GreyViper

Prophet
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
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Location
Estonia
Thanks for the recap Val the Moofia Boss, honestly I dont see doing WoW alone anymore, maybe with friends, but I suspect most ppl have been burned out from that game and there are other games around the corner. Still keep us updated, its interesting to see some of the changes.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,484
Is the writing 10x better yet? Remember how they scapegoated Afrasiabi as the singular reason for every problem with Shadowlands?

How impressed is everyone with Steve Danuser's "saga 2" of Warcraft? :lol:
 
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Caim

Arcane
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Aug 1, 2013
Messages
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Location
Dutchland
Is the writing 10x better yet? Remember how they scapegoated Afrasiabi as the singular reason for every problem with Shadowlands?
There's four evil dragons themed after the four classical elements who don't like the Titans very much, so they try to rise up against them with the help of the evil knife that killed N'Zoth two expansions ago.

It's simple and foregoes all the "I'm an evil bastard to protect you from a more evil thing!" stuff that ran Shadowlands into the fucking ground.
 

Late Bloomer

Scholar
Joined
Apr 7, 2022
Messages
2,189
How impressed is everyone with Steve Danuser's "saga 2" of Warcraft?

The game and its story is in the single worst state it has ever been in. I have played WoW on and off again since release. I admit to actually enjoying WoW lore. What they have done to WoW's lore is so heinous that it has tainted all of it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Is the writing 10x better yet? Remember how they scapegoated Afrasiabi as the singular reason for every problem with Shadowlands?

How impressed is everyone with Steve Danuser's "saga 2" of Warcraft? :lol:

Conceptually, an expansion about Warcraft dragons isn't very appealing to me. Warcraft dragons are pretty bland. The only thing really interesting about them were the Blacks, but Deathwing's story was limited to the WotA trilogy and Cataclysm. His grandson Wrathion had a cool storyline in MoP. Wrathion briefly gets 10 minutes of screentime in the Waking Shores, and then is forgotten until 10.1, in which he is sidelined in favor of Ebyssian, the black dragon pulled out of nowhere in Legion who is a sad tauren and is very boring. It is very aggravating that Ebyssian becomes the new Earth-Warder rather than Wrathion, a character who I was invested in (from MoP) and had a storyline building him up to fulfill the role that his father was supposed to.

The Primalists - an army of cultists from nowhere who hate the Titans and want to return to the good 'ole days of being enslaved by giant tentacles - are not compelling. The four Primal Incarnates - ancient dragons rejected the Titan's gifts and tried to destroy their creation - are whatever. They have goofy human forms that look like they are from a Saturday morning cartoon like Ben 10.

When you go through the levelling questlines, most of the star NPCs (Sendrax, Majordomo Selistra, the tuskurr chief, that bronze dracthyr in Thaldraszus, etc) sound like they are going through hormone therapy. Even Kalecgos sounds like a total wimp.

The Dracthyr storyline is pretty bad. Sarkareth and Emberthal both only got 30 seconds of screentime in the starter zone (and then Emberthal got another 30 seconds of screentime in the Waking Shores). Then they take center stage in the 10.07 patch and have a considerable amount of cutscene time devoted to them, but I confused as to who these people were or why I should care about them. They then continue to hog the spotlight in 10.1 but again the writers have failed to get me to care about what's going on with them. There are also egregious lapses of writing, where you beat up Sarkareth and could just kill him... but you don't, and he rises to his feet and declares that this is not the end and then runs off. Twice.

I haven't beaten the megadungeon, but it wouldn't surprise me if it ends with Chromie (who has been retconned to be trans) is installed as the new leader of the Bronze Dragonflight.


oQr4RDB.gif


There is a sidequestline involving the Night Elves, who I did care about, but it was wonkily written.

Malfurion was calling me "friend" and asking me for my help. I main a Horde character. I invaded Ashenvale - Night Elf territory - and slew their people to help the Horde chop down more trees and dig up ugly holes for Goblins to spew muk into. In MoP, I snuck into Teldrassil and slaughtered more elves to steal a Mogu artifact to use against the Alliance. And then I invaded Ashenvale (again!) and poisoined their villages - women and children too - and then invaded Darkshore, and then torched most of their civilization. There is no coming back from that. Also doesn't make sense for the Green Dragons to treat me so warmly either. The Greens invested thousands of years of work into developing Ashenvale and Darkshore and Teldrassil only for me to destroy it, and they are family with the Night Elves, most of whom I burned alive.

The champion of the Horde should not be personally invited by the Night Elves and the Greens to help with their problems. This story should be exclusive to the Alliance champion. At least give the NPCs different dialogue so they only barely tolerate my presence because I'm the accomplished heavy lifter on hand. (Then again, it's weird that Magni entrusted the Heart of Azeroth to a mass murderer, or that Khadgar cracks jokes in my presence... or really any non-Horde character is chill with me).

Malfurion being written out of the Warcraft story is unsatisfying. He only ever got to... what? Star in the Cata Hyjal questline, and then get axed in the back by Sadfang at the start of BFA. All of his cool stuff happened either in WC3 or in books, both outside of the actual WoW game. Then again the Night Elves - a faction unto themselves - got utterly shafted in WoW from the start when they got lumped in with the Alliance.

Malfurion being written out of the story also feels completely unnecessary. We went through all this trouble to bring back Ysera only for her to immediately abdicate her powers and authority and then waltz off to do whatever. The story begins with the Green Dragonflight being led by Meritha, and ends with the Green Dragonflight being led by Meritha (though I guess Meritha got empowered at the end).

Didn't Cenarius die in WC3 and then easily came back in Cata? This who thing about having to sacrifice someone to take Ysera's place within Ardenweald feels stupid. And contrived, which it is.


==============

Dragonflight's story isn't offensively bad like Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands were. It doesn't trample on old lore or perform character assassinations of characters I loved. (Well, I guess Wrathion's edge has been sanded off but that happened in BFA). The issue with Dragonflight's story is that the writers can't get me to care about anything that is going on, and all of the sanctimonious cutscenes of people standing around with pouty faces and navel gazing fall flat for me.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,484
Several of those issues seem to be due to or fear of twitter commentary. Which makes it even more obvious that they have no grand plan aside from using the mystery box approach.
 

Dr1f7

Learned
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
866
Several of those issues seem to be due to or fear of twitter commentary.
blizzard is the twitter community at this point
which is why, again, you really shouldn't be giving them $$ you're just funding people who hate you
 

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,295
Several of those issues seem to be due to or fear of twitter commentary. Which makes it even more obvious that they have no grand plan aside from using the mystery box approach.
People censoring themselves to avoid offending social media vocal minorities instead of just focusing on making good fucking products for the people actually buying their shit deserve to lose money.

Then we get developers moaning about games like Elden Ring n BG3 setting "unfair standards", how dare those cunts making decent products with only a fraction of our resources! Blasphemy!
 

Axel_am

Exploring and Enjoying
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Codex+ Now Streaming!
Several of those issues seem to be due to or fear of twitter commentary. Which makes it even more obvious that they have no grand plan aside from using the mystery box approach.
People censoring themselves to avoid offending social media vocal minorities instead of just focusing on making good fucking products for the people actually buying their shit deserve to lose money.

Then we get developers moaning about games like Elden Ring n BG3 setting "unfair standards", how dare those cunts making decent products with only a fraction of our resources! Blasphemy!
It's a game for the masses. I guess those have to exist as well.

It's a bit sad but with the way things are going in the industry I don't think we will ever get a MMO with the DA:O tone you mentioned earlier in the thread. I would be happy if we get anything like DA:O, but again - that doesn't seem to be happening. People seem to be convinced that video games are for children only and they don't need to tackle serious topics.

Comparing the intro cinematic of Reign of Chaos to the one in Dragonflight would make you think that they were going for a horror story with Warcraft 3. Which is so far from what War3 actually is. It really boggles the mind how the entirety of that rough appeal has just been evaporated. I would say this applies for the rest of Blizzard's games. All of them seem to be more focused to appeal to a younger audience. And that also includes Diablo - a game where you actually fight the devil.

Anyway, if WoW is purposely designed to be more appealing to children Blizz are doing a stellar job with the game.
 

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