KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Dorateen]

Maybe he should have made a blobber. No tokens necessary.

 

[MRY]

Even as someone who has never had a computer to play cutting-edge-graphic games, and only bought consoles very late in their life cycle so that they were already a generation out of date, someone who likes low-resolution graphics, ASCII interfaces, and even text adventures -- this is insane. Graphics and aesthetics are IMO related but distinct concepts. A game can have very simplistic graphics -- "bad" graphics from a technological standpoint -- and still have perfectly fine aesthetics. A game can have bad graphics and mediocre aesthetics. But very occasionally a game shows utter contempt for aesthetics altogether, which is what this is. Not only do I struggle to imagine what he is thinking, I struggle to understand how there can exist players who are able to play this game without suffering actual discomfort and a reduction in their enjoyment of the game.

 

[Grauken]

You're obviously not using the right reality filters to enjoy this

Use this one
nost-rosetint-cbtfag

Then increase imagination and optimism factor by 400%

 

[Grimlorn]

Another thing I was thinking. If I recall correctly, in KOTC it mattered which direction you were facing as it affected percentage of chance to hit, defend and so on, but here with the tokens you probably have to get rid of it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't see it in the screenshots, but I'd guess that could be solved with some kind of visual cue, like an arrow or something.

 

[SlumLord]

The tokens are fine, you covetous whores.

Here's a few simple ways to make them better:

• instead of a blurred edge, change it to a sharp one to delineate the difference between token and background
• paint friendlies with a green outline, hostiles with red, neutrals with violet, and summons with blue
• make friendly tokens round, and hostile ones hexagonal... neutrals/summons can be squares
  
• pay some random hobo 5$ to draw a BattleBrother-esque 'podium' to use as the tokens' base
• ???
• profit

There, it's not hard.

The current problem is visual clutter, nothing more.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The concept of tokens is fine, it's the implementation that's shit. Making the battlefield readable at a glance is game design 101. If you're not going to do that it may as well just be spewing raw code at you and expecting you to visualize the battlefield from a collection of X/Y coordinates.

 

[Mortmal]

Even Jeff Vogel does better now, and presentation wasn't his strong point , turns out queen wish could be very good looking:

 

[Mustawd]

I struggle to understand how there can exist players who are able to play this game without suffering actual discomfort and a reduction in their enjoyment of the game.

. Hyperbole Thursday or something MRY?

It’s really not all that bad. It’s 1000’s times better than the first iteration of S&S: Underworld. Now THAT was hilariously bad.

This just needs some token swaps. I like the concept.

 

[MRY]

The total game might or might not be tolerable. But people suggesting the aesthetics don’t even bother them? I believe them, but I cannot understand them.

 

[Mustawd]

But people suggesting the aesthetics don’t even bother them? I believe them, but I cannot understand them.

Fair enough.

FWIW, here’s my two cents:

1.) Assets will hopefully be moddable. Vogel’s Avernum (original not the remake) had a few assets that were available to mod, but most of them were bundled in the .exe. With his remakes he made them available outside the application, and now are easily modded. My hope is that KOTC has the same, since there are tons of freely or cheaply available tokens or images to make into tokens.

2.) From a distance the art is less bad overall. Also, the environment art isn’t bad at all.

 

[Mortmal]

2.) From a distance the art is less bad overall. Also, the environment art is bad at all.

That's codex curator material.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I think that fireball video looks great. I don't give a damn about them being tokens, it gives it a more tabletop feel. The fireball itself looked great, as did the old-school "take damage turn by turn" effect. I'm completely fine with this, since the game is going to be very deep. My question is, why don't enemies all drop loot? You had that big battle and then only a sword, cuirass and shield dropped? I would hope each enemy has their own loot even if it is garbage, I like that sort of realistic approach. But tokens? I'm fine with them. 100%

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Even Jeff Vogel does better now, and presentation wasn't his strong point , turns out queen wish could be very good looking:

Now that does look gorgeous IMO. But still, two totally different games. You won't get the depth of D&D from Vogel's games (which are still great RPGs, don't get me wrong). But Queen's Wish does look really nice. Doesn't change anything as I'm still fine with the tokens of KotC2.

 

[Galdred]

The total game might or might not be tolerable. But people suggesting the aesthetics don’t even bother them? I believe them, but I cannot understand them.

Indeed, I don't have much problem with the tokens, but the environments are neither pretty, nor very readable.

Even Jeff Vogel does better now, and presentation wasn't his strong point , turns out queen wish could be very good looking:

Now that does look gorgeous IMO. But still, two totally different games. You won't get the depth of D&D from Vogel's games (which are still great RPGs, don't get me wrong). But Queen's Wish does look really nice. Doesn't change anything as I'm still fine with the tokens of KotC2.

The presentation will certainly be better in Vogel's game, but his encounter design and over reliance on trash mobs make the better game a no brainer when it comes to system and encounter design.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Indeed, I don't have much problem with the tokens, but the environments are neither pretty, nor very readable.



The presentation will certainly be better in Vogel's game, but his encounter design and over reliance on trash mobs make the better game a no brainer when it comes to system and encounter design.

I like Vogel's design overall especially his challenging encounters design, but in terms of the D&D depth, KotC will be the much deeper and more complex game. Vogel's games have gotten more streamlined with character development while KotC will be deep in that area. Still, both are purchases for me, no doubt.

 

[Darth Canoli]

. Hyperbole Thursday or something MRY?

It’s really not all that bad. It’s 1000’s times better than the first iteration of S&S: Underworld. Now THAT was hilariously bad.

This just needs some token swaps. I like the concept.

So you're telling me that orange thing in the middle of the room doesn't bother you ?

As for the tokens, i agree, they're fine as long as you don't look at them, he's not going to eat anything but roots if he walks that path, that's for sure.

 

[mondblut]

Even Jeff Vogel does better now

He did fine enough back in 1997 already.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rainbow bubbles

 

[Viata]

Even Jeff Vogel does better now, and presentation wasn't his strong point , turns out queen wish could be very good looking:

I like the platform below the characters, just like those miniatures in tabletop rpg.

 

[Viata]

I struggle to understand how there can exist players who are able to play this game without suffering actual discomfort and a reduction in their enjoyment of the game.

. Hyperbole Thursday or something MRY?

It’s really not all that bad. It’s 1000’s times better than the first iteration of S&S: Underworld. Now THAT was hilariously bad.

This just needs some token swaps. I like the concept.

While this video makes me want to play this game, that big orange token there is really weird, damn.

 

[Gord]

You mean the big lava pool in the middle?

I guess him liking round pools of various elements does kind of clash with tokens being round, but still, it's relatively clear, imo.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I would imagine anyone who has enjoyed a D&D board game would appreciate the visuals. Quality of token art aside, the dungeons remind me of great fun I had playing Wrath of Ashardalon with my kids. I think the fog of war approach here would lend itself really well to RL modules or Ironman runs.

 

[cruelio]

Almost halfway through January. Where's the kickstarter you daft starving hack fraud?

 

[CyberWhale]

Died from eating poisonous barries.

 

[Sitra Achara]

He said on the HFG forums that it's delayed again, and didn't want to spell out another date.