Vapourware A new Deus Ex was in development at Eidos Montreal

[rusty_shackleford]

Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of lowlife and high tech",[1] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

Deus Ex 1 is literally cyberpunk. What the hell are you weirdos on about now?

JC Denton isn't a lowlife. He's a UNATCO agent, working for the man. Then he rebels and saves the world, and of those endings, "send the world back into a dark age" is the only one that could be considered punk (it is also very stupid, which is on-brand). Becoming a posthuman benevolent authoritarian yourself or giving control of the world back to the ultra rich isn't very punk.

amusingly a way that doosex MD is closer to cyberpunk than doosex is how much power governments(esp. a one world government) have in the original doosex, which is largely shifted to blaming corporations when MD comes around.
see e.g.,
https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Modern_Business_Review

It's actually kind of hard to make the trajectory of progress in MD/HR line up with what doosex shows

 

[Roguey]

if you focus entirely on the setting you can construe basically any futuristic sci-fi work to be cyberpunk because it will eventually discuss the topic of how technology affects society

featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

therefore, this is essentially meaningless as a genre descriptor

Looking at the big list of RPG settings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_campaign_settings and science fiction subgenres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Science_fiction_genres I admit that "cyberpunk" is the closest thing that you can use to describe the Deus Ex games. What term do you use to describe a sci fi setting that takes place in the near-future that doesn't involve space travel or a destroyed world? Cyberpunk, for the lack of a more-fitting term.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if you focus entirely on the setting you can construe basically any futuristic sci-fi work to be cyberpunk because it will eventually discuss the topic of how technology affects society

featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

therefore, this is essentially meaningless as a genre descriptor

Looking at the big list of RPG settings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_campaign_settings and science fiction subgenres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Science_fiction_genres I admit that "cyberpunk" is the closest thing that you can use to describe the Deus Ex games. What term do you use to describe a sci fi setting that takes place in the near-future that doesn't involve space travel or a destroyed world? Cyberpunk, for the lack of a more-fitting term.

"near future sci-fi" is what it's called in literature

 

[lukaszek]

. What term do you use to describe a sci fi setting that takes place in the near-future that doesn't involve space travel or a destroyed world?

had a quick look, 'feghoot' got to be the one

 

[rusty_shackleford]

inadvertently good post on this topic

Yeah, instead of being put down by a cold corpo or a cyborg you'll be strapped to a table by a man in makeup talking in falsetto and injected with mRNA that will cause your body to fill its arteries with pounds of fibrous grey strands until you can no longer circulate blood and then one day you will fall over dead.

Certainly leaning a more toward dystopian horror than cyberpunk.

 

[Roguey]

"near future sci-fi" is what it's called in literature

Problem here is that that sounds boring. Space opera, post-apocalyptic, and cyberpunk sound cool. Near future sci-fi sounds like picturing going to work in a vehicle that hovers slightly above the ground and typing on a Star Trek keyboard at your office job.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"near future sci-fi" is what it's called in literature

Problem here is that that sounds boring. Space opera, post-apocalyptic, and cyberpunk sound cool. Near future sci-fi sounds like picturing going to work in a vehicle that hovers slightly above the ground and typing on a Star Trek keyboard at your office job.

it could be reasonably classified as tech noir

fun fact:
that's what the publisher of MD for osx/linux referred to the game as
https://www.feralinteractive.com/en/news/842/

 

[Gradenmayer]

"near future sci-fi" is what it's called in literature

Problem here is that that sounds boring. Space opera, post-apocalyptic, and cyberpunk sound cool. Near future sci-fi sounds like picturing going to work in a vehicle that hovers slightly above the ground and typing on a Star Trek keyboard at your office job.

it could be reasonably classified as tech noir

fun fact:
that's what the publisher of MD for osx/linux referred to the game as
https://www.feralinteractive.com/en/news/842/

What about post-cyberpunk? It kinda fits into it.

 

[Roguey]

What about post-cyberpunk? It kinda fits into it.

Postcyberpunk is the description of the story, but as a description of a setting, it's not different at all from cyberpunk (unless you interpret it literally as a setting that used to be but is no longer a dystopia)

 

[Gradenmayer]

What about post-cyberpunk? It kinda fits into it.

Postcyberpunk is the description of the story, but as a description of a setting, it's not different at all from cyberpunk (unless you interpret it literally as a setting that used to be but is no longer a dystopia)

The latter- dystopia is in the past or didn't happen, but the tech is still there.

But turns out Tech Noir can also be referred to as Cyber Noir, so I am giving my vote to Rusty's suggestion.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Inb4 people agreeing with the Human revolution thesis that Deus Ex is a superhero game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of lowlife and high tech",[1] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

Deus Ex 1 is literally cyberpunk. What the hell are you weirdos on about now?

Complaining that cyberpunk isn't very punk without realizing that it never has been. The term cyberpunk was only coined in 1982, and within a few years it referred to a subgenre of science fiction exploring the ramifications of cybernetic augmentation (both internal and external), often with aesthetics borrowed from Blade Runner (which is not cyberpunk) rather than from punk, even if William Gibson and some of the other originators had stronger punk influences. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO, or a university scientist, or a law enforcement officer is still a cyberpunk story.

Incidentally, Blade Runner (1982), as with Deus Ex, has a policeman as a protagonist, while Max Headroom (1985) has as protagonist the world's most successful television journalist.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

If they wanna make a Cyberpunk 2077 clone, it will be DOA.

It's the antithesis to DX's toned down, gloomy, political thriller setting.

 

[NecroLord]

And conspiracies. Lots and lots of conspiracies.
Deus Ex did not have the flash typically associated with Cyberpunk,but it did not need it. It's cyberpunk precisely because of its writing and tone. That's why Deus Ex will be remembered throughout history,while Cybercock 2077 will fade into obscurity,mark my words.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of lowlife and high tech",[1] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

Deus Ex 1 is literally cyberpunk. What the hell are you weirdos on about now?

Complaining that cyberpunk isn't very punk without realizing that it never has been. The term cyberpunk was only coined in 1982, and within a few years it referred to a subgenre of science fiction exploring the ramifications of cybernetic augmentation (both internal and external), often with aesthetics borrowed from Blade Runner (which is not cyberpunk) rather than from punk, even if William Gibson and some of the other originators had stronger punk influences. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO, or a university scientist, or a law enforcement officer is still a cyberpunk story.

Incidentally, Blade Runner (1982), as with Deus Ex, has a policeman as a protagonist, while Max Headroom (1985) has as protagonist the world's most successful television journalist.

you're confusing cyberpunk with tech-noir, they aren't the same thing
and blade runner is not cyberpunk, it basically pioneered the visuals for cyberpunk, yes, but it is not cyberpunk.

cyberpunk is Johnny Mnemonic, it's an offshoot of tech-noir

I'm not sure how hard it is to grasp that cyberpunk is "high tech, low life". Yes, the protagonist is important. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO is not cyberpunk. It's like saying you can tell a chivalric romance story while focusing on someone who isn't chivalrous merely because the setting is similar.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

...often with aesthetics borrowed from Blade Runner (which is not cyberpunk) rather than from punk...

and blade runner is not cyberpunk, it basically pioneered the visuals for cyberpunk, yes, but it is not cyberpunk.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

...often with aesthetics borrowed from Blade Runner (which is not cyberpunk) rather than from punk...

and blade runner is not cyberpunk, it basically pioneered the visuals for cyberpunk, yes, but it is not cyberpunk.

Yes, and?
You said cyberpunk has never been punk, but you were referring to tech noir, which merely influenced the style of cyberpunk but not the substance.
People are confusing the look with the content.

Tech noir and cyberpunk are diametrically opposed in substance.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

And I'm over here just pretending Metropolis doesn't exist heh.

 

[Gargaune]

If they wanna make a Cyberpunk 2077 clone, it will be DOA.

It's the antithesis to DX's toned down, gloomy, political thriller setting.

I think it's unlikely Eidos Montreal will pivot from the Jensen tone or abandon their Neo-Renaissance art direction, it was clearly planned out to progress (or rather regress) across a trilogy - from the glitzy techno-baroque of Human Revolution to the devolving, more restrained mixture of Mankind Divided and, presumably, a further decaying aesthetic in a third installment to bridge the gap to the original Deus Ex's 90s-inspired urban collapse. It was a considerable effort from the developers which yielded compelling, distinctly identifiable results, even if it's not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.

What I'm more worried about is someone at Embracer shoving Open World down their throats, though I'm cautiously optimistic it won't come to that. It would be very, very stupid.

you're confusing cyberpunk with tech-noir, they aren't the same thing
and blade runner is not cyberpunk, it basically pioneered the visuals for cyberpunk, yes, but it is not cyberpunk.

cyberpunk is Johnny Mnemonic, it's an offshoot of tech-noir

I'm not sure how hard it is to grasp that cyberpunk is "high tech, low life". Yes, the protagonist is important. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO is not cyberpunk. It's like saying you can tell a chivalric romance story while focusing on someone who isn't chivalrous merely because the setting is similar.

Interesting, just read up on that. By the same metric, wouldn't that also exclude Ghost in the Shell from cyberpunk? There's a hefty supply of low life in all that high tech, but it most definitely doesn't constitute the focus of the central cast and plot.

In any case, it's a tricky conflict between "correct" and popular terminologies. The general public - myself included, I admit - seems ignorant of "tech noir" as a genre and just uses "cyberpunk" to cover both. So at which point, if ever, does the popular become correct? Does the product of decline become the legitimate baseline when no one remembers the prior one, in a sort of generational cycle of degradation? Or is history an uninterrupted downwards vector, leaving our venerable forefather, the amoeba, the most prestigious of us all?

I need a whiskey.

 

[gerey]

I'm not sure how hard it is to grasp that cyberpunk is "high tech, low life". Yes, the protagonist is important. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO is not cyberpunk. It's like saying you can tell a chivalric romance story while focusing on someone who isn't chivalrous merely because the setting is similar.

One of the pioneering Japanese works of cyberpunk is Ghost in the Shell, and it has quite a few parallels with Deus Ex (with the caveat that some aspects are unique to a specific continuity):

• highly augmented individual working for a government agency;
• said individual is also an orphan growing up in very unique circumstances (JC was bred to be enhanced, Motoko is one of the rare individuals that began augmentation in early childhood due to the extent of her injuries suffered in the incident that killed her parents);
• narrative is more focused on fighting terrorists and uncovering conspiracies within the government than being a punk;
• the protagonist is not a low-life, but either very rich, or in a position where wealth is of no concern;
• the protagonist eventually rebels against the establishment when their policework uncovers a vast conspiracy aimed against the public good
• they ascend to Cyberpunk godhood by becoming/merging with an AI, and the sequel features a new protagonist trying to finish what they started (Batou in GITS 2, Alex in DX:IW).

What I'm more worried about is someone at Embracer shoving Open World down their throats, though I'm cautiously optimistic it won't come to that. It would be very, very stupid.

I think the colossal failure of cyberpunk in that regard has made many others devs wary to try and merge an open-world with im sim mechanics.

Arguably, it could be done, but the effort and resources required would be so prohibitive to make it unpalatable to anyone that isn't working on such a game as a passion project. Additionally, DX gains very little from tying the protagonist to a single city, which would be a requirement of an open-world philosophy.

 

[Cross]

Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of lowlife and high tech",[1] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.

Deus Ex 1 is literally cyberpunk. What the hell are you weirdos on about now?

Complaining that cyberpunk isn't very punk without realizing that it never has been. The term cyberpunk was only coined in 1982, and within a few years it referred to a subgenre of science fiction exploring the ramifications of cybernetic augmentation (both internal and external), often with aesthetics borrowed from Blade Runner (which is not cyberpunk) rather than from punk, even if William Gibson and some of the other originators had stronger punk influences. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO, or a university scientist, or a law enforcement officer is still a cyberpunk story.

Incidentally, Blade Runner (1982), as with Deus Ex, has a policeman as a protagonist, while Max Headroom (1985) has as protagonist the world's most successful television journalist.

you're confusing cyberpunk with tech-noir, they aren't the same thing
and blade runner is not cyberpunk, it basically pioneered the visuals for cyberpunk, yes, but it is not cyberpunk.

cyberpunk is Johnny Mnemonic, it's an offshoot of tech-noir

I'm not sure how hard it is to grasp that cyberpunk is "high tech, low life". Yes, the protagonist is important. A cyberpunk story told from the perspective of a media conglomerate CEO is not cyberpunk. It's like saying you can tell a chivalric romance story while focusing on someone who isn't chivalrous merely because the setting is similar.

Genres are not defined by their protagonists. The 'low life' in 'high tech, low life' refers to the setting, and that theme features prominently in Deus Ex:

"Number One: In 1945, corporations paid 50% of federal taxes; now they pay about 5%. Number Two: In 1900, 90% of Americans were self employed; now it's about 2%... It's called consolidation; strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time."

Not to mention how absurd it is to claim that the protagonist being a rank and file police officer disqualifies it from being cyberpunk. Look at our current world: every major company shilled for Black Lives Matter and Defund the Police, donatiing billions to them.

 

[Roguey]

By the same metric, wouldn't that also exclude Ghost in the Shell from cyberpunk? There's a hefty supply of low life in all that high tech, but it most definitely doesn't constitute the focus of the central cast and plot.

Like Deus Ex, it is postcyberpunk.

http://locusmag.com/2006/Features/Person_GhostInTheShell.html

At its best, GitS:SAC is the most interesting, sustained postcyberpunk media work in existence, intellectually (if not visually) superior to the original movie, and almost worthy of direct comparison to the post/cyberpunk works which inspired it. (However, while the works of one literary figure are referenced throughout the first season, no one has ever accused J. D. Salinger of being a Cyberpunk...)

Set in the densely-realized postcyberpunk setting of "New Port City" (think Japan’s Gotham City), GitS:SAC follows the investigations of Section 9, an ultra-elite police cybercrime and "special problems" team, a job especially important in a society where much of the populace has various cybernetic implants, including partial or completely cybernetic brains.

 

[Konjad]

Deus Ex is probably the only old game I loved which had GOOD modern sequels. I have hopes for this one too. Adam turned out to be a likeable protagonist as well (which is rare nowadays as characters are either too edgy or without a character).

 

[gerey]

One way they could overcome the issue of the open plot threads in MD and the way the story clearly had the last 1/3 missing, without having to start the game right where MD left off, is to include flashback missions in the sequel, and do what Capcom did with the videotapes in Resident Evil VII.

For those that aren't aware, in REVII you can sometimes find VHS tapes that act as playable exposition, but the really clever part is that they can be used to affect the present too. As an example, in the demo the prologue character can pick up a lockpick/key in the past depicted in the VHS tape, and once the tape ends, lo and behold, he reaches for his pocket and there's the item.

If the player didn't pick up the lockpick in the VHS past then there's no item in the present.

Either that or they could release a DLC for MD, though I imagine that wouldn't be particularly viable.

 

[Gradenmayer]

One way they could overcome the issue of the open plot threads in MD and the way the story clearly had the last 1/3 missing, without having to start the game right where MD left off, is to include flashback missions in the sequel, and do what Capcom did with the videotapes in Resident Evil VII.

For those that aren't aware, in REVII you can sometimes find VHS tapes that act as playable exposition, but the really clever part is that they can be used to affect the present too. As an example, in the demo the prologue character can pick up a lockpick/key in the past depicted in the VHS tape, and once the tape ends, lo and behold, he reaches for his pocket and there's the item.

If the player didn't pick up the lockpick in the VHS past then there's no item in the present.

Either that or they could release a DLC for MD, though I imagine that wouldn't be particularly viable.

Script was cut in half and game was supposed to be a 2-part story. But it failed to meet retarded expectations of square enix and part 2 was axed.
So it's not 1/3 of the story missing, it's half or more.

Toufaxis also revealed that the story was then supposed to continue in a following Deus Ex game, however, publisher Square Enix chose to focus on other projects after the title didn't sell the expected number of copies.