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Alan Wake 2 - new survival horror experience from Remedy

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,466
Been playing the game for 5 hours, and while it's certainly much better than Control

Not a single thing I've seen of it makes me think this is in any way better than Control. Or even as good as it. At least Control was mostly gameplay oriented while this looks like a "cinematic" game first and foremost. How exactly is it better?
In my eyes Control didn't have anything going for it, except maybe for the physics engine. It had a boring nobody protagonist, boring abilities, lack of enemy variety, pointless upgrade system, boring story that was completely at odds with gameplay - frantic, high paced tps with tons of, yes, boring reading material in every fucking room that you had to autistically read to understand anything, which completely fucked up the pacing, one of the worst map systems ever and so on and so forth.

AW2 at least doesn't actively get in your way of experiencing it's story (mind place is a drag though), the shooting feels better and the story is generally more engaging from the get go.
 

Darkwind

Augur
Patron
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
613
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Alan_Wake.jpg


ZOMG!1! Such a brave str0nk independent openly racist nigress. 10 outta 10 bros! Game journos probably paused this scene to beat off to it, they get off on being degraded as do an astonishingly high percentage of Westoid whites. Sad, many such cases...
 

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,109
Location
Swedex
View attachment 42878

ZOMG!1! Such a brave str0nk independent openly racist nigress. 10 outta 10 bros! Game journos probably paused this scene to beat off to it, they get off on being degraded as do an astonishingly high percentage of Westoid whites. Sad, many such cases...

People who bought this crap should demand a refund on the account of this game being racist trash. And that's EXACTLY what they should specify as the reason for the refund.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,417
Location
liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I love this game but because I always have soft spot for remedy and poets of the fall and a new poets song always get me excited.

It does feel a bit disappointing that they kinda set this up as proper survival horror (aka resource management, lock and key puzzle, etc) but at least gameplay wise it suffer the same remedy game with lack of enemy variety and general meat on the mechanics. There are exploration and sometimes interesting puzzles like the nursery rhymes, although exploration rarely bears fruit because the upgrades are mostly % increase in x or y.

But otherwise i love the atmosphere, i love the story and cheesy writing. I even like the detective board. I never expect the game to have proper deduction board, but it is just a glorified, semi interactive quest log.

It's a remedy game i guess pretty much. The flaws of remedy game stays mostly the same, but the strength and heart it have and the devs obviously put tons of love into it, it just win me over.

Objectively speaking, it has weak mechanics but i think a game can not be only its gameplay and mechanics. It's not for everyone especially most codexer but i can't help but loving it.
 

POOPERSCOOPER

Prophet
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
2,843
Location
California
Is it true this is just basically a walking simulator? Setting and trippy story telling looks interesting but I heard the gameplay is like not there?
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
Been playing the game for 5 hours, and while it's certainly much better than Control

Not a single thing I've seen of it makes me think this is in any way better than Control. Or even as good as it. At least Control was mostly gameplay oriented while this looks like a "cinematic" game first and foremost. How exactly is it better?
In my eyes Control didn't have anything going for it, except maybe for the physics engine. It had a boring nobody protagonist, boring abilities, lack of enemy variety, pointless upgrade system, boring story that was completely at odds with gameplay - frantic, high paced tps with tons of, yes, boring reading material in every fucking room that you had to autistically read to understand anything, which completely fucked up the pacing, one of the worst map systems ever and so on and so forth.

AW2 at least doesn't actively get in your way of experiencing it's story (mind place is a drag though), the shooting feels better and the story is generally more engaging from the get go.
You can just ignore the mind place as well for most of the game, that's what I did. It eventually just puts shit on the board automatically.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
18,201
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I love this game but because I always have soft spot for remedy and poets of the fall and a new poets song always get me excited.

It does feel a bit disappointing that they kinda set this up as proper survival horror (aka resource management, lock and key puzzle, etc) but at least gameplay wise it suffer the same remedy game with lack of enemy variety and general meat on the mechanics. There are exploration and sometimes interesting puzzles like the nursery rhymes, although exploration rarely bears fruit because the upgrades are mostly % increase in x or y.

But otherwise i love the atmosphere, i love the story and cheesy writing. I even like the detective board. I never expect the game to have proper deduction board, but it is just a glorified, semi interactive quest log.

It's a remedy game i guess pretty much. The flaws of remedy game stays mostly the same, but the strength and heart it have and the devs obviously put tons of love into it, it just win me over.

Objectively speaking, it has weak mechanics but i think a game can not be only its gameplay and mechanics. It's not for everyone especially most codexer but i can't help but loving it.
I assume you finished the game. Maybe you can explain how Alan can write himself out of tight spots? It seems a bit random. You search for inspiration, then when Alan gets that, he can write himself out a room that was blocked earlier. What I don't get, is he actually writing stuff in real time, or is it just some kind of mind thing he does? I don't understand why he can't write him as a victor of the story, and just end the nightmare. From what I get there are limitations on what he can write, but I guess I just get what sets these limitations.

And with this, what is the actual story when it can be changed on a whim?
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
The game's pretty good all things considered. I enjoyed it. As far as le cinematic gameplay experiences go it's up there. It did feel like they resolved very few plotlines in this game though. Presumably, they're leaving that stuff open for future games/DLCs.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,417
Location
liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I love this game but because I always have soft spot for remedy and poets of the fall and a new poets song always get me excited.

It does feel a bit disappointing that they kinda set this up as proper survival horror (aka resource management, lock and key puzzle, etc) but at least gameplay wise it suffer the same remedy game with lack of enemy variety and general meat on the mechanics. There are exploration and sometimes interesting puzzles like the nursery rhymes, although exploration rarely bears fruit because the upgrades are mostly % increase in x or y.

But otherwise i love the atmosphere, i love the story and cheesy writing. I even like the detective board. I never expect the game to have proper deduction board, but it is just a glorified, semi interactive quest log.

It's a remedy game i guess pretty much. The flaws of remedy game stays mostly the same, but the strength and heart it have and the devs obviously put tons of love into it, it just win me over.

Objectively speaking, it has weak mechanics but i think a game can not be only its gameplay and mechanics. It's not for everyone especially most codexer but i can't help but loving it.
I assume you finished the game. Maybe you can explain how Alan can write himself out of tight spots? It seems a bit random. You search for inspiration, then when Alan gets that, he can write himself out a room that was blocked earlier. What I don't get, is he actually writing stuff in real time, or is it just some kind of mind thing he does? I don't understand why he can't write him as a victor of the story, and just end the nightmare. From what I get there are limitations on what he can write, but I guess I just get what sets these limitations.

And with this, what is the actual story when it can be changed on a whim?
I am halfway trough so i dunno.
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
I love this game but because I always have soft spot for remedy and poets of the fall and a new poets song always get me excited.

It does feel a bit disappointing that they kinda set this up as proper survival horror (aka resource management, lock and key puzzle, etc) but at least gameplay wise it suffer the same remedy game with lack of enemy variety and general meat on the mechanics. There are exploration and sometimes interesting puzzles like the nursery rhymes, although exploration rarely bears fruit because the upgrades are mostly % increase in x or y.

But otherwise i love the atmosphere, i love the story and cheesy writing. I even like the detective board. I never expect the game to have proper deduction board, but it is just a glorified, semi interactive quest log.

It's a remedy game i guess pretty much. The flaws of remedy game stays mostly the same, but the strength and heart it have and the devs obviously put tons of love into it, it just win me over.

Objectively speaking, it has weak mechanics but i think a game can not be only its gameplay and mechanics. It's not for everyone especially most codexer but i can't help but loving it.
I assume you finished the game. Maybe you can explain how Alan can write himself out of tight spots? It seems a bit random. You search for inspiration, then when Alan gets that, he can write himself out a room that was blocked earlier. What I don't get, is he actually writing stuff in real time, or is it just some kind of mind thing he does? I don't understand why he can't write him as a victor of the story, and just end the nightmare. From what I get there are limitations on what he can write, but I guess I just get what sets these limitations.

And with this, what is the actual story when it can be changed on a whim?
When you're playing his chapters he's actually just in the writing room writing stuff to happen the entire time, he isn't really *actually* doing stuff. The dark place isn't really a place it's just a sort of alternate dimension where normal rules don't apply, and the power of creativity can cause it to actually conform to a certain reality. He can't just write himself to win because he has to confirm to various writing rules, he explains that in the game. The story was written to be a horror story, and he has to write within the story to make his changes actually happen. And for that to happen he has to conform to horror genre tropes.

My personal interpretation is that these limitations are actually set by the people within the dark place, while the dark presence itself isn't even truly conscious. The story has to be believable for the writer to make the dark place actually turn it "real".
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
18,201
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
When you're playing his chapters he's actually just in the writing room writing stuff to happen the entire time, he isn't really *actually* doing stuff. The dark place isn't really a place it's just a sort of alternate dimension where normal rules don't apply, and the power of creativity can cause it to actually conform to a certain reality. He can't just write himself to win because he has to confirm to various writing rules, he explains that in the game. The story was written to be a horror story, and he has to write within the story to make his changes actually happen. And for that to happen he has to conform to horror genre tropes.

My personal interpretation is that these limitations are actually set by the people within the dark place, while the dark presence itself isn't even truly conscious. The story has to be believable for the writer to make the dark place actually turn it "real".
So the actual gameplay, what does that represent? Alan fumblingly reading around in the story, trying to find inspiration and connect stuff to complete the story/chapters?
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
Is it true this is just basically a walking simulator? Setting and trippy story telling looks interesting but I heard the gameplay is like not there?
It's not literally a walking simulator, it's a survival horror game that just isn't too challenging or complex. Albeit I did struggle with some bosses even on lower difficulties. But that has more to do with bullet sponginess than real difficulty, IMO.

The gameplay is better than Alan Wake 1's at least, so there's an improvement in that regard. The game does lack in enemy variety though, I don't think there are more than 5 enemy types? Ignoring the bosses of course.

The game also has a bunch of puzzles, most optional. And I'd say the puzzles tend to be fairly clever.
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
When you're playing his chapters he's actually just in the writing room writing stuff to happen the entire time, he isn't really *actually* doing stuff. The dark place isn't really a place it's just a sort of alternate dimension where normal rules don't apply, and the power of creativity can cause it to actually conform to a certain reality. He can't just write himself to win because he has to confirm to various writing rules, he explains that in the game. The story was written to be a horror story, and he has to write within the story to make his changes actually happen. And for that to happen he has to conform to horror genre tropes.

My personal interpretation is that these limitations are actually set by the people within the dark place, while the dark presence itself isn't even truly conscious. The story has to be believable for the writer to make the dark place actually turn it "real".
So the actual gameplay, what does that represent? Alan fumblingly reading around in the story, trying to find inspiration and connect stuff to complete the story/chapters?
Yes, basically, he's trying to think of ways how to make the story make sense and be self-consistent, while also dealing with the stuff the dark place just kind of "generates" on its own. All while trying to actually escape the dark place in doing so. But yea the game intentionally doesn't really make it obvious as to what's actually happening in the Alan Wake chapters. Some of it gets explained at the end of the game though, if you have beaten it already. Particularly the apartment scenes.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,417
Location
liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I am halfway trough so i dunno.
Alright. Have you done the subway? I'm just perplexed how Alan write all that shit, to be able to escape the tunnels.
Yeah, what i think is basically otto guy said:

The "real" alan is the one in the writing cabin but he can project himself in the dark world as writing. This is like basically astral projection. In the dark world, the effect of his writing are almost immediate (aka how the angel lamp mechanic and story board work). He has control of reality there as long as the flow of the story makes sense. The echoes are probably past stuff he has written both in the dark room or real life, so he can change these scenario as a whim.

This is how the game mechanic work. As for why alan have to write to escape is because he cannot escape from the cabin room. In the dark world, there are probably doors, or other beings that has access to the multiverse like ahti or even jesse from oceanview motel that is a nexus of many different plane of existence. since alan cannot access these breach(es) himself, he exploited the same mechanism the dark world use to manipulate the real the world, aka writing. Other than that, the actual mechanism is vague on purpose.

For context i think, control is very important piece of puzzle at least to know what is the scope of alan wake's scenario. Basically the world has different level and plane of existence. The dark presence is basically the darkness version of the hiss. These are just extradimensional beings that lives in other dimension. The darkness is just one of many. Some of these beings are either benevolent (like polaris from control), neutral like the board that have their own agenda but not outright malicious like the hiss or the dark presence.

Now where these planes of existence brush off with part of material world they usually causes supernatural phenomena. Sometiems it affects objects or a small range of spaces sometimes it's big and can cause disaster level of destruction (like bright falls or ordinary from control) alan wake's story is just basically one of this.

The quirk of the dark dimension is if is in contact of the real world, it can absorb fiction and affect reality. This is separated in 2 levels: how if affect "reality" in the dark world and the real world.

In the dark world the effect is immediate and strong (think it as a very malleable world like limbo from dnd).

In the real world rhe effect is subtle. You can't say x will happen and it will happen. You say x happen, it just kinda nudge causality (but this is still very vague). I dont believe the power is that strong and i do not agree alan wake/the darkness caused control to happen or FBC to exist. Assuming the board/the dark presence/the hiss has almost equal level of strength i doubt cauldron lake can make other eldritch beings exists.

Another common thread is these beings have "chosen" one to say basically human agents to exercise their control in the real world. They nudge people towards the breach of dimension and attract people compatible with their powers. For examlle bright falls tend to attract artists (like tammy who you speak early in the game and other people from journals you find)

So basically the dark presence trapped thomas zane, but he got out from writing his way out, then alan came, he got trappec so he must his way out.
 

OttoQuitmarck

Educated
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
433
I am halfway trough so i dunno.
Alright. Have you done the subway? I'm just perplexed how Alan write all that shit, to be able to escape the tunnels.
Yeah, what i think is basically otto guy said:

The "real" alan is the one in the writing cabin but he can project himself in the dark world as writing. This is like basically astral projection. In the dark world, the effect of his writing are almost immediate (aka how the angel lamp mechanic and story board work). He has control of reality there as long as the flow of the story makes sense. The echoes are probably past stuff he has written both in the dark room or real life, so he can change these scenario as a whim.

This is how the game mechanic work. As for why alan have to write to escape is because he cannot escape from the cabin room. In the dark world, there are probably doors, or other beings that has access to the multiverse like ahti or even jesse from oceanview motel that is a nexus of many different plane of existence. since alan cannot access these breach(es) himself, he exploited the same mechanism the dark world use to manipulate the real the world, aka writing. Other than that, the actual mechanism is vague on purpose.

For context i think, control is very important piece of puzzle at least to know what is the scope of alan wake's scenario. Basically the world has different level and plane of existence. The dark presence is basically the darkness version of the hiss. These are just extradimensional beings that lives in other dimension. The darkness is just one of many. Some of these beings are either benevolent (like polaris from control), neutral like the board that have their own agenda but not outright malicious like the hiss or the dark presence.

Now where these planes of existence brush off with part of material world they usually causes supernatural phenomena. Sometiems it affects objects or a small range of spaces sometimes it's big and can cause disaster level of destruction (like bright falls or ordinary from control) alan wake's story is just basically one of this.

The quirk of the dark dimension is if is in contact of the real world, it can absorb fiction and affect reality. This is separated in 2 levels: how if affect "reality" in the dark world and the real world.

In the dark world the effect is immediate and strong (think it as a very malleable world like limbo from dnd).

In the real world rhe effect is subtle. You can't say x will happen and it will happen. You say x happen, it just kinda nudge causality (but this is still very vague). I dont believe the power is that strong and i do not agree alan wake/the darkness caused control to happen or FBC to exist. Assuming the board/the dark presence/the hiss has almost equal level of strength i doubt cauldron lake can make other eldritch beings exists.

Another common thread is these beings have "chosen" one to say basically human agents to exercise their control in the real world. They nudge people towards the breach of dimension and attract people compatible with their powers. For examlle bright falls tend to attract artists (like tammy who you speak early in the game and other people from journals you find)

So basically the dark presence trapped thomas zane, but he got out from writing his way out, then alan came, he got trappec so he must his way out.
Thomas Zane hasn't gotten out though, has he? He's still stuck in there. I think in fact Thomas Zane wrote about Alan in his story to have Alan find out a way out of the dark place for him, similar to how Alan wrote Saga and Casey to save HIM from the dark place. In a future game/DLC we will probably see Zane leave the dark place thanks to Alan. That is my prediction at least.

The games do actually leave ambiguous who wrote about who first. Whether Zane wrote Alan first or Alan wrote Zane first.
 

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