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mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,440
Location
Italy
Beamdog may not have delivered the best expansion people would have loved. Personally I see a lot of technical issues with the EE compared to the original (and mods), mainly the blurred gfx (why, just why?). But I don't think 1-star reviews, a metacritic score of 3.7 and all that shitstorm is something they deserve. It's just completely out of proportion.

Don't underestimate the SJW threat.
Political Correctness is THE thing that's blown out of proportion, a blight that's creating Unassailable Truths that are even destroying our countries right now (arguably, at least) - see the islamification of the civilized world and so on.

This is one instance where frustrated (admittedly) victims of this Political Correctness lunacy have a real way of reacting, it's natural they're going to use it.
 
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Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,070
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
In my opinion, there are few things that made the outcry a lot different for two companies.

The timing, when Firedorn Saga happened, few people outside GG cared about SJWs and almost everyones reaction was "Its just a stupid poem, noone cares.". On the other hand Mizhena Saga comes at the time when there are a lot more people tired with the whole SJW bullshit, with the latest being the Overwatch ass controversy.

Reaction of Obsidian was done much better, instead of attacking or mocking their fans they simply shifted the blame from themselves and said it was authors decision to change and that they also didnt want to change it. I personally think thats bullshit but it was enough for majority of their fans.

Fans, while majority of Obsidian fans are long time followers who are willing to forgive companies mistakes as long they provide them with the games they will enjoy. Beamdog fans are not really their fans but fans of BG, and Beamdog already had a shaky relationship with them due poor releases of EE editions, inserting SJW politics was only the last drop that lead to outrage.


Personally I think Firedorn Saga is far greater wrongdoing. Obsidian shit on their fans due a complain of a random nutjob and for what, a shitty poem no sane person cared about.

As for Mizhena, I dont care about people putting trannies in games or preaching about values of diversity or any other SJW bullshit. Im all for freedom of speech and artistic freedom, if its your game you are free to do anything you want with it. So Im all for that SJW nonsense to stay in the game, but that wont stop me from saying its retarded, saying its poorly written and forced, and that I will not be buying it.

I have the impression that all the backlash Beamdog receives is actually a continuation of that "fight" that started with the PoE drama. In PoE the sjw-extremists won the fight by getting some harmless joke removed. Now, gg-extremists and associates are taking their chances to pay back this "wrong-doing" they received from PoE. I think that's actually the main reason why everything started to get that much out of control.
Beamdog not shutting their mouth wasn't helping either. That's something they have to learn from Obsidian even if it's a hard und unfair lesson to learn. aVENGER actually was cool enough to just answer technical/gameplay related questions here in a neutral tone.

Beamdog may not have delivered the best expansion people would have loved. Personally I see a lot of technical issues with the EE compared to the original (and mods), mainly the blurred gfx (why, just why?). But I don't think 1-star reviews, a metacritic score of 3.7 and all that shitstorm is something they deserve. It's just completely out of proportion.

Policing what review scores people are allowed to give to a game is starting down a slippery slope.

Whose to say my opinion of this game wasn't literally a 1 star..
I gave the same to Fallout 4.

Who are you to say I am wrong?

Until I make a fake account and give the game 2 reviews with 1 star - I am perfectly within my rights and I don't need some "excuse me - I am a more moderate disenfranchished fan" telling me 'objectively' what the right score is.
 

kwanzabot

Cipher
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
597
First we have to rescue D&D from the sinkhole it's gotten into, and make it relevant again. Then we gotta shove some reason into WotC's heads and grant the computer license to someone who knows what the fuck he's doing. Last, we gotta keep SJWs at bay.


fuck dnd and fuck everything you stand for

Huh? Didn't you say elsewhere you did play BG? Shifting personalities or different guy using the same account?
ive played bg and alot of other dnd based games, some i've enjoyed some not


doesnt mean i can't think it's not a great system, or is your brain starting to decompose in your old age and you can't understand that fact ?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
19,146
Pathfinder: Wrath
Beamdog may not have delivered the best expansion people would have loved. Personally I see a lot of technical issues with the EE compared to the original (and mods), mainly the blurred gfx (why, just why?). But I don't think 1-star reviews, a metacritic score of 3.7 and all that shitstorm is something they deserve. It's just completely out of proportion.

Is it? At first I was also thinking that maybe they are taking it too far out of malice, but after musing about it some more I came to the conclusion that this is a good thing. Just think about the situation - they took BG's combat system so they haven't actually created any actual gameplay (as opposed to content) and all they did was paint a few pictures and wrote a bunch of stuff which is horrendous, so the only thing we CAN criticize are those. The writing is (allegedly) awful even compared to video games, the pictures are pretty but uninspired and there's only a small amount of good fights. What do you think that equals to? I think 1 star is appropriate. These criticisms also elevate gaming as a whole because we show an intellectual understanding of the thing we are consuming and we are conscious of the context in which we do it. That means we can demand better gameplay, better writing and better everything else concerning video games. Video games are on the path of no longer having a free pass because it's a video game in regards to anything. That's GOOD and I think this is the only way to do it (from our position of consumers, if we were creators of games we could do something more), so it's not blown out of proportion, they just have to wade through the bullshit of mouth breathers to find some truth, but that's been true for everything ever.
 
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jcd

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Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
Hey, Beamdog fixed lots of bugs of the original games. Then added lots of their own... I've heard of people playing Imoen in BG2EE, and she doesn't get Level 9 spells because the Intelligence cap for D&D applies... that's not funny.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,248
I have the impression that all the backlash Beamdog receives is actually a continuation of that "fight" that started with the PoE drama. In PoE the sjw-extremists won the fight by getting some harmless joke removed. Now, gg-extremists and associates are taking their chances to pay back this "wrong-doing" they received from PoE. I think that's actually the main reason why everything started to get that much out of control.
Beamdog not shutting their mouth wasn't helping either. That's something they have to learn from Obsidian even if it's a hard and an unfair lesson to learn. aVENGER actually was cool enough to just answer technical/gameplay related questions here in a neutral tone.

Beamdog may not have delivered the best expansion people would have loved. Personally I see a lot of technical issues with the EE compared to the original (and mods), mainly the blurred gfx (why, just why?). But I don't think 1-star reviews, a metacritic score of 3.7 and all that shitstorm is something they deserve. It's just completely out of proportion.
The problem is mainly developers can't handle criticism without making excuses. They're incredibly immature adults. When people make legitimate criticism they dismiss it, or insult their critics by labeling them bigots or harassers. It's unprofessional and just makes things worse. It's going to keep getting worse as this stuff keeps on continuing within the industry from controversy to controversy, building and building as people get angrier and angrier at being insulted and ostracized within the gaming community. It's ironic because most gamers are socially liberal anyways and don't need to be lectured to or have that SJ shit shoved down their throats. Devs act like they are doing something special, but they are just inserting gay characters or trans characters or whatever to cover for their inability to be creative and to simultaneously get people to pat them on the back for being so progressive. The characters don't have any depth to them, they are just gay or trans or a minority of some kind. It's a joke.

At the end of the day gamers should be able to criticize a badly written character and not be called homophobic because the character happens to be gay, or criticize a game that happens to have a gay character and labeled homophobic even though it has nothing to do with the character. And developers need to stop hiring these insane people who label things as sexist, racist, etc that aren't. Like Scott calling a nagging wife sexist. That doesn't make any sense and hiring someone to write a game who has irrational views like that is crazy. You're asking for controversy and to fail when you do that.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,405
On the past, hack writers were criticized for making Mary Sues.

Today, hack writers receive a medal if their Mary Sues "represent" a minority.

Obviously, the answer isn't to get better but seek a way to make your critics look bad.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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I just finished chapter 7. Once I got out of the tutorial dungeon, the writing got so hilariously bad, I can't take the game seriously anymore. It's almost as if this has been the official style guide during development:
- Every single female character talks with Amber Scott's vocabulary, uses her "snappy remarks" and her sarcasm. That's a clear sign of 14 y.o. fanfic level of writing. That she is amateurish is alright in itself - many people have been there, but only Amber Scott has been handed to write the first original content for the BG games since 2004, and that's not alright.
- Every female character is obligated to express her superiority to men at every opportunity, in general or in particular - whether that be her father, her boyfriend, her traveling companion (Dynaheir/Minsc), or a male PC. Examples range from Corwyn's daughter, to Skie and her father, to Viconia and some generic duergar friend of hers who serves no other purpose except for her to spite him, to the Safana and Coran exchange. You don't even have to look closely for those examples. Boy, you'd think this Scott woman must have been put down by men all her life to develop such blind hatred. It's really a fixation she has, apparently. It's curious to behold, it's like misogyny but backwards.
- Minsc has to act as if he's signed a contract with a hamster pets shop chain, by which he is bound to mention Boo in literally, and I mean literally, every other sentence that comes out of his mouth. The Boo jokes are so overdone, that as much of a fan as you could be, you could seriously grow to hate Minsc by the end.

I'm beginning to think the whole Caelar Argent crusade is a metaphor for Scott's own crusade against the patriarchy, where she sees herself as the torchbearer of freedom from the oppression of... "people who don't like that".

My conclusion - as many have already pointed out, the problem with the game's writing isn't the themes, sadly it's far more basic - it's the inability of the writer to create distinctive characters, even after such characters have been served to her on a silver platter with the BG license. This inability generally speaks of lack of good literary examples and culture around which a distinctive writer's style could develop, and lack of personal experience with and understanding of real-life people. This completely ties in with the worldviews she has recently expressed and with her insecure reactions to criticism. To put it simple, her head contains nothing which could produce good writing. All she has there (and it's flowing through each character's lines, because Scott is unable to speak through her characters' perspective) is SJW cliches about the world, and the library of snappy remarks she has gathered from hanging out on twitter and tumblr, supposedly in the years when she was a "self-employed writer". It's sad, but obviously, that's all her inner world.

What's left of the game is the railroaded succession of maps which you have to cover, completing stupid errand quests and going through combat. For plot and continuity reasons, you can't level up in this expansion (I checked it, depending on your class group Fighter/Priest/Mage/Thief, you can level up between 2 or 3 times, with a raised XP cap), so that's all there is. In this state, it's less than half a game for me. Right now I don't feel it's even worth playing through to the end. I think they would have done best to have kept this a DLC.
 
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varangos

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but the crucial question has not be answered-

is there a dragon to fight?
 

pippin

Guest
Dragon fights were the single most underwhelming aspect of BG2 for me. Especially after I was told they were particularly hard. Turns out it's not that hard to figure out how to kill each one of them in like 30 seconds.
 

HatTrick

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Messages
140
Beamdog may not have delivered the best expansion people would have loved. Personally I see a lot of technical issues with the EE compared to the original (and mods), mainly the blurred gfx (why, just why?). But I don't think 1-star reviews, a metacritic score of 3.7 and all that shitstorm is something they deserve. It's just completely out of proportion.

Don't underestimate the SJW threat.
Political Correctness is THE thing that's blown out of proportion, a blight that's creating Unassailable Truths that are even destroying our countries right now (arguably, at least) - see the islamification of the civilized world and so on.

This is one instance where frustrated (admittedly) victims of this Political Correctness lunacy have a real way of reacting, it's natural they're going to use it.
3wwpvyK.jpg
 

varangos

Prospernaut
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Dragon fights were the single most underwhelming aspect of BG2 for me. Especially after I was told they were particularly hard. Turns out it's not that hard to figure out how to kill each one of them in like 30 seconds.

with stratagems improved dragons+triple hp they are quite tough.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
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Messages
7,405
What's left of the game is the railroaded succession of maps which you have to cover, completing stupid errand quests and going through combat. For plot and continuity reasons, you can't level up in this expansion (or maybe you can, by just one level?).
Wot? You can't level up? They've made an RPG where you can't level up?
 

Tacgnol

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What's left of the game is the railroaded succession of maps which you have to cover, completing stupid errand quests and going through combat. For plot and continuity reasons, you can't level up in this expansion (or maybe you can, by just one level?).
Wot? You can't level up? They've made an RPG where you can't level up?

I think they let you level to 9? There is definitely a cap pretty early on though.
 

pippin

Guest
I assume you start at level 1? In the original + TOSC I reached the level cap with my mage halfway into Durlag's Tower, which was the last thing I did before fighting Sarevok, and did pretty much everything else except killing Drizzt and fighting that weird character which appears at the archeology site. If you start at level 1 and end at level 9 after 50 hours it only means the game is grindy as fuck or they just give you xp for breathing.
 

DeepOcean

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What's left of the game is the railroaded succession of maps which you have to cover, completing stupid errand quests and going through combat. For plot and continuity reasons, you can't level up in this expansion (or maybe you can, by just one level?).
Wot? You can't level up? They've made an RPG where you can't level up?

I think they let you level to 9? There is definitely a cap pretty early on though.
You start at level 7, am I right?
 
Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,866,099
Boy, you'd think this Scott woman must have been put down by men all her life to develop such blind hatred. It's really a fixation she has, apparently. It's curious to behold, it's like misogyny but backwards.

Perhaps they just pestered her for sex so often that she became bored of them, which is understandable really

AQBK46u.png
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Boy, you'd think this Scott woman must have been put down by men all her life to develop such blind hatred. It's really a fixation she has, apparently. It's curious to behold, it's like misogyny but backwards.

Perhaps they just pestered her for sex so often that she became bored of them, which is understandable really
AQBK46u.png

#Sexism

With that face? Some cheap hookers look better.

# Sexism
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Boy, you'd think this Scott woman must have been put down by men all her life to develop such blind hatred. It's really a fixation she has, apparently. It's curious to behold, it's like misogyny but backwards.

Perhaps they just pestered her for sex so often that she became bored of them, which is understandable really
AQBK46u.png
Reading that blog post (I quoted it too some pages back) I'm thinking we've all been there. For example, I used to get mad that "women fall for jerks". :) When I was like 15 (coincidentally around the same time when I was playing BGII for the first time).
 

Tacgnol

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What's left of the game is the railroaded succession of maps which you have to cover, completing stupid errand quests and going through combat. For plot and continuity reasons, you can't level up in this expansion (or maybe you can, by just one level?).
Wot? You can't level up? They've made an RPG where you can't level up?

I think they let you level to 9? There is definitely a cap pretty early on though.
You start at level 7, am I right?

If you start SOD with a new character, but I think it's possible to hit level 8 with TOTSC though?
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
BG1+TotSC has an experience cap of 161,000. BG:SoD has an experience cap of 500,000. According to the Beamdog forums they didn't backport the increased cap to the base game, so I don't know what this "can't level up" business is about.
 

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