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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

gulagdandy

Novice
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
48
Location
Southern Euope (AKA Best Europe)
The vampire is also a high elf, and a noble, and a snarky asshole.
You just described regular vampire. Or high elf.
Not really though. For starters, he's the rogue, which is an archetype in an of itself. Every charateristic you add to that should a) be justified in the context of the narrative structure b) help create a rich but cohesive character. Him being a vampire could be an interesting layer on top of the basic archetype, but making him a noble, a high elf, a vampire spawn, and giving him a super abrasive personality is a bit much for me. At least the way it's written into the game, idk.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,254
Location
大同
The vampire is also a high elf, and a noble, and a snarky asshole.
You just described regular vampire. Or high elf.
Not really though. For starters, he's the rogue, which is an archetype in an of itself. Every charateristic you add to that should a) be justified in the context of the narrative structure b) help create a rich but cohesive character. Him being a vampire could be an interesting layer on top of the basic archetype, but making him a noble, a high elf, a vampire spawn, and giving him a super abrasive personality is a bit much for me. At least the way it's written into the game, idk.
The characteristics synergize well in informing his personality, but I agree with you that it's a bit too much. He's by no means poorly written given the background choices which they've picked for the character though.
 

Nryn

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
255
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Completed the Early Access portion and I'm surprised at the amount of content it has in just Act 1. It took me about 30 hours to explore the 2 main maps thoroughly, and I can easily see the alternative quest paths adding another handful of hours on top of that number. Thoughts on various aspects of the game:

Things I didn't like:

1. Map Structure Lessens the Feel of Adventure: The first major map contains too many places and points of interest on a single map to be believable. Places such as the Druid's Grove, Blighted Village, Waukeen's Rest Inn, Hag's swamp, etc., are all within a minute of walking distance from one another, making the first map feel like a theme park crammed with attractions without any thematic consistency. In BG 1&2 or Kingmaker, places such as the Druid's Grove or the Goblin Camp would have been their own separate map, and just the simple act of traveling from one location to another using the world map would have gone a long way towards replicating the feeling of adventuring across Faerun. The Underdark map fares better due to being more focused in its content, but BG 3 is going to require many more such maps to capture the Faerun-spanning adventure feel of its predecessors.

2. Elemental Surface Shenanigans: Apart from the map design, this is the other aspect of the game that suffers from too much of a Divinity influence and requires heavy toning down. Nearly every second enemy archer is equipped with an arrow that creates an elemental surface. Goblins and Duergars constantly chuck flasks or bombs that create surfaces of fire, acid or grease. While there is nothing as obnoxious as Necrofire from Original Sin 2, D&D is not really equipped to deal with enemies spamming elemental surfaces. For starters, the magic system of OS 1&2 allows casters to cast multiple spells a round to nullify an enemy's elemental surface, and the player is not burning through precious spell slots in doing so. If, for some inexplicable reason, Larian is adamant on showcasing its elemental surfaces for the 3rd game running, it would be best if only special enemies could shape the battlefield in such a manner. For example, create and allow only alchemist class enemies the ability to use flasks and bombs that create surfaces. This incentivises the player to focus down such enemies once spotted. Similarly let only boss-calibre enemy archers have access to elemental surface creating arrows.

3. Conversation Dice Rolls: While it's faithful to the rules, chance-based conversations are a poor fit for CRPGs since they lack the luxury of a DM adapting on the fly to a party's abject luck during critical skill checks. I vastly prefer static skill checks, but they are probably more straightforward to implement in games based on D&D 3.5, Pathfinder, Fallout and its clones, etc., because those systems give the player the opportunity to pump points into non-combat skills every level. While D&D 5E is far more miserly in providing skill improvement opportunities, I still took on quite a few skill checks in the early access at +5 advantage due to a combination of high attributes, existing skill proficiencies and bonus proficiencies granted by items. As such, I can see an alternative fixed skill check system working that looks for +1 to +5 skill proficiency just for the early access content.

4. Some Overpowered Ability Changes: Giving every class a jump/disengage as a bonus action trivialises positioning and completely neuters enemy attacks of opportunity. Similarly, a Ray of Frost cantrip shouldn't replicate the primary purpose of the Grease spell. I wish Larian stuck to the core rules governing actions and abilities.

Things I liked:

1. D&D Fixes a Lot of Larian's Mechanical Shortcomings: Many of Original Sin 2's glaring mechanical flaws are fixed by D&D rules:
  • Excellent Initiative System: In its current iteration, BG3 might have one of my favourite initiative systems since it combines the advantages of individual and side-based initiative without the drawbacks inherent to either. With individual initiative systems, setting up combination attacks is difficult, but BG3 sidesteps this issue by having adjacent party members in the initiative list act in any order. On the other hand, with side-based initiative, CRPGs often devolve into the player's party going first and annihilating the most dangerous targets. In BG3, since initiative is still determined individually, setting up team-wide alpha strikes is entirely a matter of chance and not a strategy to rely upon.
  • No Armour System or Similar Nonsense: It was expected, but it's good to see standard saving throws back in action, and no poorly thought out substitute in its place.
  • Sensible Itemization: There's no ridiculous number bloat from level to level, rendering items from a couple of levels earlier useless. Larian's unfortunate "Item Fever" is nowhere to be found, with all loot appearing to be both hand crafted and hand placed, a boon for subsequent playthroughs where one can access powerful equipment early. By the end of the early access my party had a good mix of +1 enchanted equipment and items that granted unique abilities to the wielder. It bodes well for the rest of the game.
2. Stealth and Pickpocketing Systems are Rewarding: I like how systems driven the game in general is, and the Goblin ambush at the Blighted Village showcased how useful stealth can be. Using stealth, one can remove multiple lone sentries before the fight even begins. It's also possible to use stealth and strip enemy inventories clean of elemental arrows and flasks before the fight begins, to keep Divinity shenanigans to a minimum. Pickpocketing also netted me a couple of unique weapons that I would have otherwise missed: a spear hidden in the grove, and the Priest of Loviatar's dagger -- which became my Rogue's offhand weapon for the rest of the early access. Talking to and then pickpocketing everyone might be the way to go in the full game, if the rest of the game continues rewarding pickpocketing with unique items.

3. Complex Quest Design: Multi-layered quest design was never Bioware's forte, BG 1&2 included. BG 2, especially, had entertaining but largely linear quests. This is one aspect where BG 3 runs circles around its predecessors. Most quests have multiple ways of solving them, and the evil path, with the drow, offers numerous permutations. Making use of the Tadpole's powers sets up unknown consequences down the line, and might lead to yet another evil path through the game in addition to the evil paths present in individual quests. One can also go about murdering NPCs and have the quests and game world react appropriately.

4. Combat is Promising: As long as the Divinity style elemental surfaces don't rear their ugly heads, I find myself looking forward to the next handcrafted fight. Even though the early access only goes up to level 4, the game has already thrown tricky fights the party's way in the forms of a Bulette, Minotaurs and a Spectator, and it's made me look forward to what the rest of the game has in store in terms of encounter design. I also liked a couple of specific aspects of the combat compared to BG 1&2's combat:
  • Martial Classes are Effective: Casters are still mighty, but martial classes are strong in their own right, and don't have to play second fiddle anymore. Martial classes in BG 3 benefit from micromanaging them, and this difference, compared to the auto attack bots they were in BG 1&2, is probably what makes an RTwP version of BG 3 unlikely; it would be about as fun as micromanaging an entire party of Magus characters in Kingmaker in RTwP.
  • Interactive Battlefields: Just like in Blackguards 1, one can use the environment to get ahead in tough fights. If enemy archers are shooting at the party from an elevated location, one can destroy the wooden supports of the platform they're standing on, making them plummet to the ground. Many fights take place in locations where the enemies can be lured to stand under a weight that can be made to fall on them. These interactive parts of each fight are entirely optional and not immediately apparent in the thick of battle, but they are a good tactical addition that offers even more options in combat.
5. Rewarding Exploration: Even though I don't like the Divinity style single map design, the map itself is filled with secrets to find. I uncovered nearly a dozen chests that were hidden in various nooks and crannies of the map, often reached via magically-enhanced jumps. There are also illusory walls that provide shortcuts to at least 2 major places in the early access, and one of them can be used to cross environmental hazards.

6. Early Access Ends at an Intriguing Place Plotwise: Without going into spoilers, I find that the game has done a good job of setting up the driving force of the story. The game has built up the Mindflayers, the Tadpole and the antagonist alluded to in Act 1, without giving away future plot twists and revelations. Even by the end of Act 1, the main plot is still shrouded in mystery, and it's left me intrigued about how it's all going to unfold. The game is also hyping up the eventual return to the city of Baldur's Gate with numerous quest NPCs promising a reward if the party visits them in the city, and so that's something I'm looking forward to.

Somewhat related to the story, I'm also interested in seeing how the personal quests of the 5 companions play out despite 3 of them (the ones not of "Good" alignment) taking issue with nearly every decision I've made so far. I was hoping that BG3 would have the lengthy optional quests that BG2 had, and so far, the companion quests appear to fill that role, unfolding over multiple acts.

Overall, I enjoyed my time with the early access. The 2 biggest issues with the game bleed over from Divinity's school of design. Of these, the map design is probably too late to address this late in development, but I expect the elemental surfaces from Divinity to be toned down even further, going by the feedback flooding Larian's forums. On the plus side, the D&D ruleset has corrected various shortcomings that have long plagued Larian's design. The quests are full of choices, combat and encounter design hold promise, and tonally, this is the most focused Larian release with hardly any levity (out of place or otherwise) to be found. Unless something goes catastrophically wrong with the rest of the game's development, this is on track to be Larian's best game by far.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,123
I dunno, I find that guy the cringiest. There's not much else to him but a murder hobo who likes pain, killing and saying DAHLING!
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,906
For starters, he's the rogue
So you mean he's still just regular elf?

2e1.png
 

Shinros

Learned
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
172
He's this game's Zevran.

You're right on the money. It's kinda easy to get approval with him. If you pick the sarcastic options, along with some of the pragmatic evil options he gains approval. He also likes the kicking puppy options, afterall he is a vampire. One thing Larian has done well on though is reaction, after meeting the devil if you are a warlock the vampire asks your advice on how to deal with him. You have several options.

The problem is in the EA if you actually want to see the layers behind the characters you have to use the tadpole. If you don't, you don't get to see that the gith chick is REALLY insecure. Wyll is weak mentally and spiritually and like the vampire he wants to use the tadpole powers even though he "disapproves". The gith chick screams to resist the dreams, but it's obvious she gives in hence why she loses no approval when you do and she gains it when you push back. They're not amazing characters, but they're serviceable.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,254
Location
大同
He's this game's Zevran.

You're right on the money. It's kinda easy to get approval with him. If you pick the sarcastic options, along with some of the pragmatic evil options he gains approval. He also likes the kicking puppy options, afterall he is a vampire. One thing Larian has done well on though is reaction, after meeting the devil if you are a warlock the vampire asks your advice on how to deal with him. You have several options.

The problem is in the EA if you actually want to see the layers behind the characters you have to use the tadpole. If you don't, you don't get to see that the gith chick is REALLY insecure. Wyll is weak mentally and spiritually and like the vampire he wants to use the tadpole powers even though he "disapproves". They're not amazing characters, but they're serviceable.
I'm still wondering whether the tadpole options tie to some hidden meter which might either allow or outright lock you into a bad ending.
 

Shinros

Learned
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
172
I'm still wondering whether the tadpole options tie to some hidden meter which might either allow or outright lock you into a bad ending.

The dream lady I think has nothing to do with the tadpole, our tadpole actually doesn't like her. I think picking certain options in the dream could lead to a bad ending where you just become a mind flayer and following the dream girl leads into the evil ending.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
16,934
Location
Frostfell
I watched a stream while was doing exercises and OMG, a single skill check made the entire map change since the character could preserve the world as a illusion... I don't see something amazing like that since hotu. Will play this game this weekend.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,254
Location
大同
I am perfectly content with having the ability to make ugly dwarves in the character creator (though you can also make cute females if you so desire).
DeCtTce.jpg

Your dwarf, and another one posted before in the thread (maybe again yours) look fucking awesome.
Thanks, friend. Have another screenshot of the second one, since I don't have any others of the first:
z7ALOV1.jpg
 

Voids

Augur
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
223
Location
California

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,607
The vampire is also a high elf, and a noble, and a snarky asshole.
You just described regular vampire. Or high elf.
Not really though. For starters, he's the rogue, which is an archetype in an of itself. Every charateristic you add to that should a) be justified in the context of the narrative structure b) help create a rich but cohesive character. Him being a vampire could be an interesting layer on top of the basic archetype, but making him a noble, a high elf, a vampire spawn, and giving him a super abrasive personality is a bit much for me. At least the way it's written into the game, idk.
Eh, both "snarky" and "vampire" go with "noble", and "elf" goes with "asshole." A little on the nose, but a passable bag of tropes, not too bothered.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,607
They should not have put those percentage tooltips when you hover over enemies, because people who don't understand how D&D attacks are calculated misinterpret the percentages as "75% is basically a sure hit". Better with no tooltips at all, like in old RPGs, that way the player gets a more accurate impression of his chance to hit from his own experiences.
Agreed. Han Solo never wants you telling him the odds. Don't you wanna be like Han Solo?
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,806
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Just started this a couple days ago. Never been a huge fan of the original Baldur's Gate games, entirely due to hating RTWP, but this is not bad at all so far. The companions seem like a pack of shitheads, but far far far more tolerable than modern day BioWare crap. Wizard guy and green frog woman are cool, while Shadowheart is a loser with a dumb name and the vampire guy is a total dildo.

The maps do feel pretty packed, which is the polar opposite of how I remember the original Baldur's Gate, with all its huge-ass forests full of jack shit. It is pretty ridiculous when every single corner you turn results in another dramatic encounter or a quest or some major cinematic cutscene but hey, content is content.

Really liking the combat, especially the range of spells and all the ways you can combine them to make ridiculous shit happen.
 

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