Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Harthwain]

The ideal solution to social situations is to make skill check failures (AND successes) less than straightforward. Sometimes failing can be advantageous. Sometimes success merely opens up the possibility to say the right thing. Either way is work intensive, and it's special when the devs actually do it.

Disco Elysium did exactly that. Hell, sometimes even failing a skill check produced a more desirable result (which is a good thing, because "success" when doing something shouldn't result in being good every time).

Alignment is incline as fuck. Babies just can't handle content being gated off. "Nooooo! My Lawful Neutral character felt like being Chaotic Good today! Let me in!"

I never could tell how Planescape: Torment decides to shift your alignment. It's one of the games where I think you could benefit from having the shift clearly laballed in the dialogue option window (or at least have the whole system explained beforehand).

 

[Smashing Axe]

while a more extensive system allowing multiple party members to intervene in the conversation is the ideal solution to most problems.

= "I want to always win all the checks." You're a real choice & consequence guy. "I choose to win."

In the originals it would happen too

In the originals there was almost zero stats checks throughout the entire game. I know, I looked. BG1 has literally one meaningful check for dexterity in the entire game. And IE games had no "intimidate", "persuade" etc. It didn't matter who spoke.

BG1 had several charisma checks for NPCs giving you magical items. But yeah otherwise it's extremely rare.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

most of those cha checks needed like 18 or so, and a dagger +1 right at the beginning of the game is very useful.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Yeah. Solasta implemented a lot of neat stuff, but did the bare minimum with it. Basically, the NWN approach: they expect you to come with better stuff using the editor.

Wich is very limited and not half as good as the nwn editor was.

 

[Smashing Axe]

most of those cha checks needed like 18 or so, and a dagger +1 right at the beginning of the game is very useful.

I remember being salty that my 17 charisma paladin wasn't good enough to get anything at all

torn between Warlock and Sorcerer. depends entirely on how much Warlock reactivity there is, since Wyll is gonna have a ton of it by virtue of being a companion and I don't wanna suck by comparison. Archfey vs Wild Magic for subclasses.

Why not just multiclass as warlock/sorc then? It's one of the best 5e combos.

 

[Reinhardt]

Human; Monk

white

chanter or brewmaster?

 

[Reinhardt]

You can blame decades of piss poor video game design for that. Failed rolls have almost become synonymous with being locked out (some times permanently) of content or some other type of experience within the game that you have no alternate ways of reaching.

surprisingly ddo does it better than most single-palyer games. failed persuation? pick the lock. can't pick? kill. missed optional and really want to do it? you can replay quest, because every quest is self-contained adventure.

 

[Nortar]

Dipping a single level will result in missing on +2 to one of your stats.
But considering you can't go above 20 anyway, it might be not too much of a loss.

Am I reading things right and do those stat increases compete with feats?

Yes. I don't know if Swen had not homeruled it like god did the turtle, but by RAW you can choose to take either a feat or a stat increase.
So it's possible to have level 12 multiclassed char who has no feats and the same stats he strarted with.
Solasta has it right, btw.

 

[BruceVC]

Alignment has never produced anything worthwhile. In fact, it hasn't ever produced anything except for endless arguments on the internet forums about what is right and what is wrong. Doing away with alignment is objectively a good thing.

So how would you judge the actions of devils or demons in the D&D universe? I dont see how you can argue alignment doesnt matter if you think of the myriad of examples that exist that are because of alignment?

 

[Reinhardt]

das rite! don't mess with bruce dreams!
if alignment is not real how he can turn lolth into waifu with helm of opposite alignment?!

 

[whydoibother]

muh reactivity, muh dialogue checks, muh romances. fags.

das rite! don't mess with bruce dreams!
if alignment is not real how he can turn lolth into waifu with helm of opposite alignment?!

Why are you such an unlikable cunt in every thread you enter?

 

[BruceVC]

muh reactivity, muh dialogue checks, muh romances. fags.

das rite! don't mess with bruce dreams!
if alignment is not real how he can turn lolth into waifu with helm of opposite alignment?!

Why are you such an unlikable cunt in every thread you enter?

But hes right in this case, it does erode my interest in redemption arcs in RPG if alignment doesnt matter

But thats just one reason I maintain alignment is important

 

[Reinhardt]

muh reactivity, muh dialogue checks, muh romances. fags.

das rite! don't mess with bruce dreams!
if alignment is not real how he can turn lolth into waifu with helm of opposite alignment?!

Why are you such an unlikable cunt in every thread you enter?

so i can steal your shtick. stealing from gypsy is somewhat poetic.

 

[whydoibother]

But hes right in this case, it does erode my interest in redemption arcs in RPG if alignment doesnt matter
But thats just one reason I maintain alignment is important

Redemption arcs don't require alignment charts. You can see some character acting out villainy, then some event or revelation happens, and they stop acting out villainy. Wow, redemption!
Star Wars didn't have alignment charts, and everyone knew Darth Vader had a change of heart at the end.

 

[BruceVC]

But hes right in this case, it does erode my interest in redemption arcs in RPG if alignment doesnt matter
But thats just one reason I maintain alignment is important

Redemption arcs don't require alignment charts. You can see some character acting out villainy, then some event or revelation happens, and they stop acting out villainy. Wow, redemption!
Star Wars didn't have alignment charts, and everyone knew Darth Vader had a change of heart at the end.

Okay thats a good point. But then how do you define gods in D&D without alignment?

 

[Reinhardt]

But hes right in this case, it does erode my interest in redemption arcs in RPG if alignment doesnt matter
But thats just one reason I maintain alignment is important

Redemption arcs don't require alignment charts. You can see some character acting out villainy, then some event or revelation happens, and they stop acting out villainy. Wow, redemption!
Star Wars didn't have alignment charts, and everyone knew Darth Vader had a change of heart at the end.

Okay thats a good point. But then how do you define gods in D&D without alignment?

actually that's NOT a good point. why would anyone want to turn darth vader into waifu?

 

[whydoibother]

Okay thats a good point. But then how do you define gods in D&D without alignment?

Just give them domains. Oh, I am a cultist of the War God. I am a follower of the Justice God. I am a disciple of the Deception God.
And culters can make up reasons as to why their god is a good one and their domain is much needed in society or for success. You know, like real life.

 

[Reinhardt]

You know, like real life.

except they don't need to "make up reasons" because their god smiting their heretical ass is objective reality.

 

[whydoibother]

You know, like real life.

except they don't need to "make up reasons" because their god smiting their heretical ass is objective reality.

Its objective reality that some outsider being is fucking shit up. Its not objective reality that MY outsider being is good, and YOUR outsider being is bad, good and bad being relative terms.

 

[Reinhardt]

good and bad being relative terms.

no

 

[Hace El Oso]

Its objective reality that some outsider being is fucking shit up. Its not objective reality that MY outsider being is good, and YOUR outsider being is bad, good and bad being relative terms.

So gods of betrayal and chaos, murder, torture, with rites of child sacrifice and demons devouring mortals, these being evil is just, like, your opinion, man?

That pussy attitude takes all the fun out of being evil.

 

[BruceVC]

Okay thats a good point. But then how do you define gods in D&D without alignment?

Just give them domains. Oh, I am a cultist of the War God. I am a follower of the Justice God. I am a disciple of the Deception God.
And culters can make up reasons as to why their god is a good one and their domain is much needed in society or for success. You know, like real life.

Interesting, okay I see what you saying. I need to think about it.

 

[BruceVC]

Its objective reality that some outsider being is fucking shit up. Its not objective reality that MY outsider being is good, and YOUR outsider being is bad, good and bad being relative terms.

So gods of betrayal and chaos, murder, torture, with rites of child sacrifice and demons devouring mortals, these being evil is just, like, your opinion, man?

That pussy attitude takes all the fun out of being evil.

I do agree, those acts are pure evil and should be labelled somehow in the D&D universe. None of those deeds are objectively good based on the normal definition of " good "

 

[whydoibother]

So gods of betrayal and chaos, murder, torture, with rites of child sacrifice and demons devouring mortals, these being evil is just, like, your opinion, man?

Betrayal is just self interest in pursuit of excellence, chaos is just natural selection for the betterment of all survivors, some people do deserve murder, pain is self knowledge and triumph of mind over body, sacrificing what is most precious signifies the greatest piety, etc. If you can't rationalize every act, you'd make a poor cultist. I suggest rolling a barbarian.

 

[Cryomancer]

I booted up Kingmaker exactly once, saw that some choices are gated behind your alignment, quit the game and never regretted it since.

WTF!? This is the worst reason to not play a game. Recently I was playing ADOM, a game from 3 decades ago and some quests are barred depending on your alignment. And there are even unique abilities depending on alingment, for eg, mist elves necromancers if become ""good"", lose the ability to create undead and get the ability to create constructs.

Alignment has never produced anything worthwhile. In fact, it hasn't ever produced anything except for endless arguments on the internet forums about what is right and what is wrong. Doing away with alignment is objectively a good thing.

Wrong. Is a vital part of D&D cosmology and I can't imagine running a Planescape torment adventure without taking it into account.

The whole conflict between Devils nad Demons could't exist wihtout alingments as cosmic forces.

Star Wars didn't have alignment charts, and everyone knew Darth Vader had a change of heart at the end.

Star Wars has parts of the universe with strong presence of the Light and Dark side and the adaptations of it into (C)RPG has alignments. Someone with light side affinity can't produce sith lightning.