Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[BruceVC]

Its objective reality that some outsider being is fucking shit up. Its not objective reality that MY outsider being is good, and YOUR outsider being is bad, good and bad being relative terms.

So gods of betrayal and chaos, murder, torture, with rites of child sacrifice and demons devouring mortals, these being evil is just, like, your opinion, man?

That pussy attitude takes all the fun out of being evil.

I do agree, those acts are pure evil and should be labelled somehow in the D&D universe. None of those deeds are objectively good based on the normal definition of " good "

 

[whydoibother]

So gods of betrayal and chaos, murder, torture, with rites of child sacrifice and demons devouring mortals, these being evil is just, like, your opinion, man?

Betrayal is just self interest in pursuit of excellence, chaos is just natural selection for the betterment of all survivors, some people do deserve murder, pain is self knowledge and triumph of mind over body, sacrificing what is most precious signifies the greatest piety, etc. If you can't rationalize every act, you'd make a poor cultist. I suggest rolling a barbarian.

 

[Cryomancer]

I booted up Kingmaker exactly once, saw that some choices are gated behind your alignment, quit the game and never regretted it since.

WTF!? This is the worst reason to not play a game. Recently I was playing ADOM, a game from 3 decades ago and some quests are barred depending on your alignment. And there are even unique abilities depending on alingment, for eg, mist elves necromancers if become ""good"", lose the ability to create undead and get the ability to create constructs.

Alignment has never produced anything worthwhile. In fact, it hasn't ever produced anything except for endless arguments on the internet forums about what is right and what is wrong. Doing away with alignment is objectively a good thing.

Wrong. Is a vital part of D&D cosmology and I can't imagine running a Planescape torment adventure without taking it into account.

The whole conflict between Devils nad Demons could't exist wihtout alingments as cosmic forces.

Star Wars didn't have alignment charts, and everyone knew Darth Vader had a change of heart at the end.

Star Wars has parts of the universe with strong presence of the Light and Dark side and the adaptations of it into (C)RPG has alignments. Someone with light side affinity can't produce sith lightning.

 

[whydoibother]

Star Wars has parts of the universe with strong presence of the Light and Dark side

These aren't Good and Evil. The Dark Side has plenty of Promethean, Faustian virtues.

and the adaptations of it into (C)RPG has alignments

But they aren't necessary. You know that "help dad find kid" is the good option, and that "kill orphan, mangle corpse, tell dad this is his son to collect bounty" is the evil option. Alignments aren't required for anyone to RP, or to judge characters and actions. If anything, they just get in the way of a more morally gray experience. I remember how in Mass Effect, you HAD to pick paragon or renegade, and go down the relevant path, else you are just cucking yourself out of content.

 

[Reinhardt]

morally gray

is just shit invented by evil people.

 

[whydoibother]

morally gray

is just shit invented by evil people.

You in another thread: "Well akschualllly the invasion and destruction of my town is a very nuanced issue, you see, this country was requiring schools teach in its official language and therefore a case can be made that it should be bombed to the stone age and..."

 

[Reinhardt]

morally gray

is just shit invented by evil people.

You in another thread: "Well akschualllly the invasion and destruction of my town is a very nuanced issue, you see, this country was requiring schools teach in its official language and therefore a case can be made that it should be bombed to the stone age and..."

it's politics. everyone is evil in politics. that's how this shit works. i never claimed any politician is good and morally just.

 

[whydoibother]

it's politics. everyone is evil in politics. that's how this shit works. i never claimed any politician is good and morally just.

Ah, I see. You are a moron, who doesn't know what good or evil mean. Average alignment-brained retard.
Or, more realistically, you made a bad post, and are forced to make further worse posts, to avoid admitting you were wrong.

 

[Reinhardt]

you were wrong.

no

 

[just]

can you MMF your black gentleman friend succ?

 

[Reinhardt]

succ

they/them probably has penis. for buck breaking.

 

[Infinitron]

Alignment is silly but this readable from Baldur's Gate never fails to put a smile on my face: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Letter_(Tarnesh)

BOUNTY NOTICE
Be it known to all those of evil intent, that a bounty has been placed upon the head of <Gorion's Ward>, the foster child of Gorion.

Last seen in the area of Candlekeep, this person is to be killed in quick order.

Those returning with proof of the deed shall receive no less than 200 coins of gold.

As always, any that reveal these plans to the forces of law shall join the target in their fate.

How do you do, fellow evil people?

 

[Nortar]

Alignment is silly but this readable from Baldur's Gate never fails to put a smile on my face: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Letter_(Tarnesh)

BOUNTY NOTICE
Be it known to all those of evil intent, that a bounty has been placed upon the head of <Gorion's Ward>, the foster child of Gorion.

Last seen in the area of Candlekeep, this person is to be killed in quick order.

Those returning with proof of the deed shall receive no less than 200 coins of gold.

As always, any that reveal these plans to the forces of law shall join the target in their fate.

How do you do, fellow evil people?

I see only one explanation for why would you believe that anyone willing to commit a crime - murder for money - is not evil.
Should the message address do-gooders, dindu nuffings, just-desperate-for-moneys and other misunderstoods-made-by-society?

 

[Delterius]

Why not just multiclass as warlock/sorc then? It's one of the best 5e combos.

Why would that be any good?

Seriously I have no idea.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I see only one explanation for why would you believe that anyone willing to commit a crime - murder for money - is not evil.

Tax deductions?

 

[Delterius]

Should the message address do-gooders, dindu nuffings, just-desperate-for-moneys and other misunderstoods-made-by-society?

Why not? Isn't that literally what happens in Chapter 6, when you're framed for Rieltar's murder? The game could have spawned a party of 'assassins' who are out to collect the bounty on evil <Gorion's Ward> the Sword Coast menace and traitor for Amn.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Ideal warlock / sorcerer multiclassing for a level 12 cap would be 2 warlock and 10 sorcerer? I figure this might be the ideal combo for a character to front the party.

 

[whydoibother]

Ideal warlock / sorcerer multiclassing for a level 12 cap would be 2 warlock and 10 sorcerer?

Agonizing blast + Metamagic?

I figure this might be the ideal combo for a character to front the party.

You don't need the face to be high CHA, given how many dialogue checks we've seen that target other attributes and skills. A barbarian with intimidate could equally do the talking (from what we've seen).
Of course, on a roleplaying level you kind of want your protagonist to be a charismatic leader.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

You don't need the face to be high CHA, given how many dialogue checks we've seen that target other attributes and skills. A barbarian with intimidate could equally do the talking (from what we've seen).
Of course, on a roleplaying level you kind of want your protagonist to be a charismatic leader.

yeah, it's one of the things the game already does reasonably well. "Dialogue checks" aren't limited to Charisma-based skills but come in all kind: dexterity, sleight of hand, strength, knowledge, etc.
Plus a deluge of class-specific ones.

Which incidentally corroborates what I was saying few posts ago, about how in most cases you may want your character to be the "face" of the party regardless of being someone particularly charismatic.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

while a more extensive system allowing multiple party members to intervene in the conversation is the ideal solution to most problems.

= "I want to always win all the checks." You're a real choice & consequence guy. "I choose to win."

In the originals it would happen too

In the originals there was almost zero stats checks throughout the entire game. I know, I looked. BG1 has literally one meaningful check for dexterity in the entire game. And IE games had no "intimidate", "persuade" etc. It didn't matter who spoke.

BG1 had several charisma checks for NPCs giving you magical items. But yeah otherwise it's extremely rare.

I had compiled a list of all checks some years ago and as far as I remember, that's unlikely to be true. Those checks are for reaction, which takes charisma into account, but with a high reputation, charisma stops mattering. It gets checked in quest rewards or for getting quests. It never checks for the highest reaction either. It's just "reaction above average? okay take this dagger with the gold instead of just gold". Or "reaction above average? ok, you can get my quest". There's no meaningful checks in dialogues that branch out into new dialogue options. There's only content gated by a reasonable reaction, no branching. And everyone has this reaction unless they go on a murder hobo spree.
In short, there's no "facing" to do in BG1 as I stated. There are no checks for race, other than to get a gnome prostitute in BG2. No checks for gender, other than to get a prostitute of opposite gender. There's one completely irrelevant check for 12 strength. It's all moot.

Edit: found it - https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/dialogue-reactivity-and-depth-comparison-of-ie-games.140293/

 

[Smashing Axe]

Why not just multiclass as warlock/sorc then? It's one of the best 5e combos.

Why would that be any good?

Seriously I have no idea.

Agonising blast and a sorcerer's spell progression and metamagic. In 5e at least it also allowed cheese such as converting your warlock spells into sorcery points, then short resting for more sorcery points.

 

[Delterius]

Why not just multiclass as warlock/sorc then? It's one of the best 5e combos.

Why would that be any good?

Seriously I have no idea.

Agonising blast and a sorcerer's spell progression and metamagic. In 5e at least it also allowed cheese such as converting your warlock spells into sorcery points, then short resting for more sorcery points.

I guess, but is it really worth it when you'll be 2 levels behind the Sorcerer's spell progression and metamagic? Plus your blast will always be just 1 beam.

 

[Jermu]

Am I missing something or insist 1-3 level dip into fighter about the best dip there is from all the classes (monk not being the king of dips anymore)

can use either str or dex which makes it usable without any sacrifice for pretty much every build to get fighting style + all proficiency stuff
2th level action surge which sounds pretty busted to every character if there is no limits to resting. guess since casters require lvl 11 for 6th level spells cant get it for those.
11/12 fighter looks pretty nice too for 2x extra attack

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Ideal warlock / sorcerer multiclassing for a level 12 cap would be 2 warlock and 10 sorcerer? I figure this might be the ideal combo for a character to front the party.

If all you want is Eldritch Blast, just take the Magic Initiate feat to get it, rather than multiclass.

 

[whydoibother]

Ideal warlock / sorcerer multiclassing for a level 12 cap would be 2 warlock and 10 sorcerer? I figure this might be the ideal combo for a character to front the party.

If all you want is Eldritch Blast, just take the Magic Initiate feat to get it, rather than multiclass.

You also want

Agonizing Blast​

Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip
When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit.