Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Takamori]

Why have a roll then?

 

[Modron]

Why have a roll then?

People want the illusion they are being challenged while not actually being challenged.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

During EA, the risk of losing a roll on a check has been really decreased. It was a pure 50/50 thing on day one, but after a number of updates I don't think I ever got a bad roll.

I also got the impression that some checks got progressively easier as EA went on.
That said, did you deactivated the bullshit option "Karmic dice" which is on by default?

 

[notpl]

Im not too familiar with 5e but after looking wiki for few hours bard + warlock hybrid looks pretty nice. either 11 bard / 1 warlock or 10 bard/2 warlock but if I can only afford 1 level dip then there are few other classes than warlock that looks promising. 12 to bard don't make sense to me.
problem with 10/2 is that no access to 6th level spells but none of those looked too tempting other than eyebite and maybe true seeing depends on enemies.

10 to bard looks mandatory since this looks busted:

College of Lore bards get this feature at level 6 as well. They can also tank an enemy's saves in order to land any CC spell they please, they're beastly. Ludicrously strong even as a pure class.

 

[Abu Antar]

Apparently, I will play this with three other people. I blame myself for introducing them to turn-based games.

One dude likes to play stealthy guys in most games, one likes sword and boarding, and the fourth, we will have to help out. He'll probably be assigned the mage role. No one else wants to do it. I'm sticking to my punch dudes in the face character.

 

[Delterius]

Dipping a single level will result in missing on +2 to one of your stats.
But considering you can't go above 20 anyway, it might be not too much of a loss.

Am I reading things right and do those stat increases compete with feats?

 

[Takamori]

Why have a roll then?

People want the illusion they are being challenged while not actually being challenged.

Well fumbling a dice roll is part of the charm in D&D but sadly the culture in gaming conditioned min maxing rewards, making this a lost novelty.

 

[Jermu]

Im not too familiar with 5e but after looking wiki for few hours bard + warlock hybrid looks pretty nice. either 11 bard / 1 warlock or 10 bard/2 warlock but if I can only afford 1 level dip then there are few other classes than warlock that looks promising. 12 to bard don't make sense to me.
problem with 10/2 is that no access to 6th level spells but none of those looked too tempting other than eyebite and maybe true seeing depends on enemies.

10 to bard looks mandatory since this looks busted:

College of Lore bards get this feature at level 6 as well. They can also tank an enemy's saves in order to land any CC spell they please, they're beastly. Ludicrously strong even as a pure class.

Yeah and tier 3 spells are usually when u get some big boy spells so this might be the way to get some powerspike for mid levels. Not picking swords/valor you don't get extra attack so you become pretty caster heavy but since BG3 is probably going to be pretty casual game I doubt there is going to be much restrictions for resting so going all in for spells is probably good.
and as I mentioned maybe getting 2 levels to warlock you can get cha bonus dmg to eldritch blast which sounds good on paper but might fall off late/middle game since only 2 warlock levels and resting might not be limited so having something spammable might not be needed

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

During EA, the risk of losing a roll on a check has been really decreased. It was a pure 50/50 thing on day one, but after a number of updates I don't think I ever got a bad roll.

I also got the impression that some checks got progressively easier as EA went on.
That said, did you deactivated the bullshit option "Karmic dice" which is on by default?

Will have to try that. Since the game is releasing in a month, I'll wait until then.

Why have a roll then?

People want the illusion they are being challenged while not actually being challenged.

Well fumbling a dice roll is part of the charm in D&D but sadly the culture in gaming conditioned min maxing rewards, making this a lost novelty.

We've reached a point where rpgs, instead of being simulations of a tabletop experience, are copies of said simulation.

 

[Shrimp]

You can blame decades of piss poor video game design for that. Failed rolls have almost become synonymous with being locked out (some times permanently) of content or some other type of experience within the game that you have no alternate ways of reaching. In the most egregious cases quicksaves and reloads only being a single button press away also makes some developers add retarded options/rolls because they expect the players to abuse those features anyway.

At least Larian tends to be fairly good at letting you get around various quests or other roadblocks in multiple ways. The proper way to handle failed outcomes is to let them be a story in itself rather than just being a door that gets shut immediately and irrevocably. Hopefully one day this will become the industry standard.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Haven't followed this shit for 3 years.
Is this still true?

complaining that DOS3 is closer to actual D&D/AD&D than Bioware's sorry excuses for RPGs. You should have known not to believe this.

 

[MerchantKing]

Haven't followed this shit for 3 years.
Is this still true?

complaining that DOS3 is closer to actual D&D/AD&D than Bioware's sorry excuses for RPGs. You should have known better than to post this.

Too bad they didn't get rid of the companions entirely and just make a custom party game. If you want companion interactions, that's what multiplayer is for.

 

[The_Mask]

Post Race, Class, Weapon, Alignment, Party, Romance and Character Customization.

Human; Monk; lol weapons; lol, definitely the cleric and the gith; unless I'm blown away by the writing, no romance; straight, white and male.

 

[Orud]

That said, did you deactivated the bullshit option "Karmic dice" which is on by default?

I'm not surprised that it's on by default: too many people are bad at randomness (see gambler's fallacy).

A good example is Solasta. Every few days you at least get a post or message on various social media sites of people that are convinced that the dice are weighted in favor of the AI.

So for a big release like this we should even be happy that they allow us to disable it.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Friendly reminder that Solasta, a game that's more of a 5e combat simulator than a narrative focused RPG, manages to solve this by having the entire party participate in dialogue.


Of course it's infinitely easier to implement in a game where the dialogue and RP isn't a major focus, but considering the budget and amount of employees Larian has at their disposal I really don't think it's too much to ask. I doubt they'll surprise us with something similar to the attached picture but a man can dream. It only really reinforces the sentiment towards the game I expressed a couple of pages ago:

That's more or less where I'm at as well. I never really had any doubts that the finalised game would be good, but at the same time I fully expect my playthrough to be full of game mechanic induced headaches and various events that leave me thinking 'this could have been so much better if they had done X instead'

Solasta's dialogues, and generally art department, are awful. This game is proof that approach à la "cRPG is only good when slavishly imitate tabletop combat and ignore every artistic aspect" is dumb.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Yeah. Solasta implemented a lot of neat stuff, but did the bare minimum with it. Basically, the NWN approach: they expect you to come with better stuff using the editor.

 

[Delterius]

During EA, the risk of losing a roll on a check has been really decreased. It was a pure 50/50 thing on day one, but after a number of updates I don't think I ever got a bad roll.

I also got the impression that some checks got progressively easier as EA went on.
That said, did you deactivated the bullshit option "Karmic dice" which is on by default?

Will have to try that. Since the game is releasing in a month, I'll wait until then.

Why have a roll then?

People want the illusion they are being challenged while not actually being challenged.

Well fumbling a dice roll is part of the charm in D&D but sadly the culture in gaming conditioned min maxing rewards, making this a lost novelty.

We've reached a point where rpgs, instead of being simulations of a tabletop experience, are copies of said simulation.

That was always the case.

Fumbling a dice roll in tabletop is fun because the DM and the players all have an input in what the scene actually looks like. The DM can describe how the environment or luck conspired to fuck up your attack. Or the player themself can interject, adding their understanding of their character to just how they manage to fumble a social check.

In RPGs, fumbling a dice is fun in combat situations. Because computers are good at creating tactical challenges in an emergent fashion. You miss an attack, now you gotta deal with it. Failing a social check however, is just a failure. And, possibly, a reload.

The ideal solution to social situations is to make skill check failures (AND successes) less than straightforward. Sometimes failing can be advantageous. Sometimes success merely opens up the possibility to say the right thing. Either way is work intensive, and it's special when the devs actually do it.

Ultimately it will be up to the player wether they are willing to take failures in stride. Which is the best mentality overall, not for the game but for the player themselves. But that's besides the point, which is game design. The simplest and likely best solution for CRPGs is to make it so success is within your grasp as long as your character/party is built for it. Couldn't do a speech check because the PC is alone right now and good at knowledge checks? It's easier to say tough luck then to failing a check that was impossible to miss without a critical miss.

 

[MerchantKing]

During EA, the risk of losing a roll on a check has been really decreased. It was a pure 50/50 thing on day one, but after a number of updates I don't think I ever got a bad roll.

I also got the impression that some checks got progressively easier as EA went on.
That said, did you deactivated the bullshit option "Karmic dice" which is on by default?

Will have to try that. Since the game is releasing in a month, I'll wait until then.

Why have a roll then?

People want the illusion they are being challenged while not actually being challenged.

Well fumbling a dice roll is part of the charm in D&D but sadly the culture in gaming conditioned min maxing rewards, making this a lost novelty.

We've reached a point where rpgs, instead of being simulations of a tabletop experience, are copies of said simulation.

That was always the case.

Fumbling a dice roll in tabletop is fun because the DM and the players all have an input in what the scene actually looks like. The DM can describe how the environment or luck conspired to fuck up your attack. Or the player themself can interject, adding their understanding of their character to just how they manage to fumble a social check.

In RPGs, fumbling a dice is fun in combat situations. Because computers are good at creating tactical challenges in an emergent fashion. You miss an attack, now you gotta deal with it. Failing a social check however, is just a failure. And, possibly, a reload.

The ideal solution to social situations is to make skill check failures (AND successes) less than straightforward. Sometimes failing can be advantageous. Sometimes success merely opens up the possibility to say the right thing. Either way is work intensive, and it's special when the devs actually do it.

Ultimately it will be up to the player wether they are willing to take failures in stride. Which is the best mentality overall, not for the game but for the player themselves. But that's besides the point, which is game design. The simplest and likely best solution for CRPGs is to make it so success is within your grasp as long as your character/party is built for it. Couldn't do a speech check because the PC is alone right now and good at knowledge checks? It's easier to say tough luck then to failing a check that was impossible to miss without a critical miss.

Or just make a dungeon crawler like Gygax intended.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

complaining that DOS3 is closer to actual D&D/AD&D than Bioware's sorry excuses for RPGs. You should have known not to believe this.

In fairness, it's closer to modern D&D than BIoware's sorry excuses for RPGs.

That first point is accurate. There's no alignment system. And that's because Wizards of the Coast asked them not to put one in.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Good and evil is RAYCISS now.

Can't have that in the current year.

 

[Larianshill]

Alignment has never produced anything worthwhile. In fact, it hasn't ever produced anything except for endless arguments on the internet forums about what is right and what is wrong. Doing away with alignment is objectively a good thing.

 

[Butter]

Alignment is incline as fuck. Babies just can't handle content being gated off. "Nooooo! My Lawful Neutral character felt like being Chaotic Good today! Let me in!"

 

[DemonKing]

One dude likes to play stealthy guys in most games, one likes sword and boarding, and the fourth, we will have to help out. He'll probably be assigned the mage role. No one else wants to do it. I'm sticking to my punch dudes in the face character.

Make him a sorcerer then because he won't have to get his head around memorising spells and can just blast away.

As for in game choices, I finished the first two games with a LE Human Necromancer based on an old PNP character so might go there again. Romance will definitely go for the Half-Elf cleric chic with the Rubix cube (I like the Gith's personality but I suspect she might be a bit rough for me in the sack).

 

[lycanwarrior]

Friendly reminder that Solasta, a game that's more of a 5e combat simulator than a narrative focused RPG, manages to solve this by having the entire party participate in dialogue.


Of course it's infinitely easier to implement in a game where the dialogue and RP isn't a major focus, but considering the budget and amount of employees Larian has at their disposal I really don't think it's too much to ask. I doubt they'll surprise us with something similar to the attached picture but a man can dream. It only really reinforces the sentiment towards the game I expressed a couple of pages ago:

That's more or less where I'm at as well. I never really had any doubts that the finalised game would be good, but at the same time I fully expect my playthrough to be full of game mechanic induced headaches and various events that leave me thinking 'this could have been so much better if they had done X instead'

Solasta's dialogues, and generally art department, are awful. This game is proof that approach à la "cRPG is only good when slavishly imitate tabletop combat and ignore every artistic aspect" is dumb.

Probably why Bioware decided to branch off from D&D to Dragon Age. Then they wouldn't have to deal with the lore and rules lawyers and their whiny-ass bitching lol.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Alignment is incline as fuck. Babies just can't handle content being gated off. "Nooooo! My Lawful Neutral character felt like being Chaotic Good today! Let me in!"

Noooooo, no one trusts my heckin' Chaotic Evil Sorcerino to save them, devs please remove.