Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

How has the "evolution of CRPGs sided with RTwP"? RTwP is a weird compromise for strange fetishists, TB is both better and more popular. Sometimes, the more popular thing is simply better (not due to its popularity, don't be an ass).

 

[Nortar]

There's a space for both. Either can be used in appropriate ways. This drama bashing is laughable and for a "rpgharcorefag" forum not worthy.

Aww, come on. It's nice to have some loving in-family head bashing.
I'm sure almost non of the participants take the dispute close to their hearts.

You may believe your younger brother is an overactive outist with short attention span, but you still love him more dearly then any non-rpg strangers.

 

[Sweeper]

I could maybe get the TB fags if they argued their case cause of Underrail, or even Battle Brothers. But you guys are actually retarded enough to use DOS as an argument as to why TB is good.
"Bro it sold well."
"It's fucking popular"
TB enthusiasts are fucking brain dead.

 

[Black]

"Bro it sold well."
"It's fucking popular"

DOS combat is better than BG1 or 2 combat.

 

[Sweeper]

DOS combat is better than BG1 or 2 combat.

Why? Cause there's shit on the ground and in the air, or just because it's TB?
But fuck it, lets say you're right and the combat is better, for the sake of argument, it's still a vastly inferior RPG. And not just compared to BG 1 and 2, it's actually shit compared to most of the RPGs I've played.
The combat doesn't count for much when there's no complexity there. The mechanics are easy to understand and building a character is even further simplified from DOS 1.
Now Pathfinder Kingmaker, there's a fucking CRPG. Good ruleset, shitton of builds, good combat.
If you prefer DOS to PF:KM, you're retarded. There's no other way of putting it.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

It's funny how the TB game you fags about is DOS2, when it's combat and mechanics are complete total garbage.
And jokes/trash talk aside, while I prefer RTWP, I still enjoy Tb combat, in games that do it good, like KOTC or Battle brothers.
Ther reason DOS3 is going to suck(aside from the fact that Larian are greedly hijaking a franchise better than their entire history) is not because it's TB, it's because it's freaking Larian turn based, hell the whole intiative thing maight make it even worse than DOS2 if that's even possible.

 

[Peachcurl]

I agree. The whole TB vs RTWP discussion is a non-issue, at least for my enjoyment of the game.
What kills either of those is usually the implementation.

 

[Lacrymas]

Who has mentioned D:OS at all?

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Who has mentioned D:OS at all?

Isn't this the DOS3 thread?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Who has mentioned D:OS at all?

Isn't this the DOS3 thread?

You have a point.

Spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

Either git quick enough for pure real-time or git smart enough for turn-based.
Preferring rtwp means you're both dumb and slow.

There is nothing inherently smart about TB, it just means you have 80 years old reaction time. Larian games are a the biggest proof of that.

Yeah, because real-time-with-a-fucking-pause is so much faster than turn-based... Aren't some of you confusing RTwP with RTS (or any real-time genre without a pause feature)? Maybe play some of them first to have a clue what you're talking about?

Pink Eye plays it that way evidently. On the other hand the last time I felt passionately about the debate I suffered under that same misconception and was afraid Civ was going RTS.

I also recommend the "v" button on P:K that advances time a frame at a time while held down for another very good hybrid experience.

 

[Desiderius]

DOS combat is better than BG1 or 2 combat.

Why? Cause there's shit on the ground and in the air, or just because it's TB?
But fuck it, lets say you're right and the combat is better, for the sake of argument, it's still a vastly inferior RPG. And not just compared to BG 1 and 2, it's actually shit compared to most of the RPGs I've played.
The combat doesn't count for much when there's no complexity there. The mechanics are easy to understand and building a character is even further simplified from DOS 1.
Now Pathfinder Kingmaker, there's a fucking CRPG. Good ruleset, shitton of builds, good combat.
If you prefer DOS to PF:KM, you're retarded. There's no other way of putting it.

I liked them both, and when they fail they fail in similar ways.

The flaw plaguing the entire genre is shitty mob AI/tactics/pre-buffing. Wouldn't be surprised if that is due to a stealth faceroll ultimatum from the suits. Not as glaring as Dumpsterfire but unmistakable nonetheless.

 

[fantadomat]

There's a space for both. Either can be used in appropriate ways. This drama bashing is laughable and for a "rpgharcorefag" forum not worthy.

Sure,but conflict is more fun

It's funny how the TB game you fags about is DOS2, when it's combat and mechanics are complete total garbage.
And jokes/trash talk aside, while I prefer RTWP, I still enjoy Tb combat, in games that do it good, like KOTC or Battle brothers.
Ther reason DOS3 is going to suck(aside from the fact that Larian are greedly hijaking a franchise better than their entire history) is not because it's TB, it's because it's freaking Larian turn based, hell the whole intiative thing maight make it even worse than DOS2 if that's even possible.

Yeah,it just shows the quality of the people prising TB games when they can't even name drop Underrail,ATOM,Expedition or any other good TB game. I am pretty sure that at this point i have more experience playing TB games than all those old butthurt faggots screeching about it.

 

[Desiderius]

History is written by the winners. And turn-based won. It's over.

... but evolution of cRPGs has sided with RTwP.

The evolution that almost killed the entire genre yes.

Unpopular opinion: POEs did as well as they did because of RTwP.

Wasn't the best game ever RTwP? Yeah but the combat was shitty!1!!!!!!111!!!! <- motivated reasoning. I liked letting Morte loose.

 

[Harthwain]

Pink Eye plays it that way evidently. On the other hand the last time I felt passionately about the debate I suffered under that same misconception and was afraid Civ was going RTS.

If someone is willing to play RTwP without pause for some reason, more power to them, but my point was that anyone who claims that RTwP requires any reflexes whatsoever is a dumb fuck who has no idea what he's talking about, because the key feature of RTwP is the pause you can activate anytime you wish, for as long as you wish. So where the fuck the whole argument even comes from?

 

[User0001]

As a TB fag, I have no problem saying DOS combat and its system sucks, but I haven't seen anyone here defending that system. Takes a really "special" kind of person to be tilting at windmills.

 

[Sweeper]

The flaw plaguing the entire genre is shitty mob AI/tactics/pre-buffing.

You're not supposed to beat the AI though, you're supposed to beat the underlying mechanics of abilities, enemy stats and number rolls.
That's what RPGs are and I couldn't give less of a fuck if it's RTwP or TB, so long as the game has good mechanics and lets me min-max the fuck out of it and break it like a 10$ street walker.

 

[Desiderius]

As a TB fag, I have no problem saying DOS combat and its system sucks, but I haven't seen anyone here defending that system. Takes a really "special" kind of person to be tilting at windmills.

I'm defending that system, at least until it runs out of skills at high levels like an MMO. Taking turns initiative sucks, but that's to make up for TB faceroll.

 

[RangerOne]

anyone who claims that RTwP requires any reflexes whatsoever ... has no idea what he's talking about, because the key feature of RTwP is the pause you can activate anytime you wish, for as long as you wish

Right, you can pause as long as you want. Yet the argument that RTwP is "messy, confusing and harder to understand" exists for some reason:

https://gamingbolt.com/baldurs-gate...se-they-find-the-real-time-pause-system-messy

 

[Sweeper]

Right, you can pause as long as you want. Yet the argument that RTwP is "messy, confusing and harder to understand" exists for some reason:

https://gamingbolt.com/baldurs-gate...se-they-find-the-real-time-pause-system-messy

I wonder what them ancient Greek philosophy fags would have to say about changing the essence of a thing and calling it the same as the thing they changed.
If I were a smart man, and I'm not, I might be inclined to think that they decided to call it Baldur's Gate 3 instead of Divinity: Original Sin 3 cause they like money.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

I wonder what them ancient Greek philosophy fags would have to say about changing the essence of a thing and calling it the same as the thing they changed.
If I were a smart man, and I'm not, I might be inclined to think that they decided to call it Baldur's Gate 3 instead of Divinity: Original Sin 3 cause they like money.

by that logic, they should have named DOS2 "Rick and Morty 2" or "Family Guy 2" instead

 

[Lacrymas]

Sure,but conflict is more fun

Something vidya gaem writers don't seem to get.

Yet the argument that RTwP is "messy, confusing and harder to understand" exists for some reason:

One of the reasons is it is unnecessarily chaotic and pointlessly harder to control. All of this can be avoided by going TB, which is more elegant and makes more design sense, there is a reason chess doesn't have a RTwP variant.

I wonder what them ancient Greek philosophy fags would have to say about changing the essence of a thing and calling it the same as the thing they changed.

It depends on who you ask, but the leading philosophy is that essences can not be changed, that's why they exist, so that point is moot.

 

[Harthwain]

anyone who claims that RTwP requires any reflexes whatsoever ... has no idea what he's talking about, because the key feature of RTwP is the pause you can activate anytime you wish, for as long as you wish

Right, you can pause as long as you want. Yet the argument that RTwP is "messy, confusing and harder to understand" exists for some reason:

https://gamingbolt.com/baldurs-gate...se-they-find-the-real-time-pause-system-messy

Eh, some developer talking shit doesn't make it true. I am surprised you're trying to use that as an argument.

RTwP gives flexibility of allowing you to take your time as needed. It does break the consistency of the time flow somewhat - I can agree with such argument - but that's the price you pay for being able to pause at any point, which serves player's convenience. Otherwise we end up with full blown real-time tactics game (which is a different animal altogether) or "you have X seconds to finish your turn/phase". Would that really had been better? I prefer to take my time, either with a turn-based system without a timer or real-time with pause.

But - and this is where the whole "argument" doesn't stand up to scrutiny - it's not really "confusing or harder to understand". That's dumb talk from someone who simply doesn't like the system. In order for it to not be "confusing" or "harder to understand" you need to understand the underlying rules, but the same argument could be made for any system, including turn-based, since it's all based on DnD system. So, literally the ONLY reason this guy is talking shit about real-time with pause is because he doesn't like to pause and unpause. Nothing more.

If you really want to argue about people's reflexes, play Fallout: Tactics in real time (and do keep in mind that it still has turn-based option to play as well).

 

[Desiderius]

the ONLY reason this guy is talking shit about real-time with pause is because he doesn't like to pause and unpause. Nothing more.

There also the possibility that he doesn't like mobs not standing still and letting him run up and hit them. Normal people have to beat a Will save for that effect.

 

[CappenVarra]

i pity the fool that defends rtwp on the codex

of all the forums on all the internets in all the world, they walk into mine