Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sharpedge]

Well I'm just glad you two were able to come in and contribute to the betterment of the thread. Keep up the good work. Proud of you

Who are you?

I am Ontopoly. Player of the realms of rpgs. Master of swords and spells. Manipulator of .Ini files. Devourer of antagonists. Champion of the great halls of achievements. The sword coast knows me as bhaal spawn. The people of Arcanum know me as the living one. I am known in morrowind as the Nerevarine. And there are more titles. Titles that you do not even know. Titles that if uttered aloud would tear the minds of casuals such as yourselves apart.

So, an 8th-grader with edgelord complex.

All that matters here is your accounts age, and I got you beat there, Mr.february

Do you ever contribute anything useful to a thread?

 

[DraQ]

It's a good thing Larian are rushing this derpy co-op garbage into Early Access so we can laugh at it sooner rather than later.

We are already laughing.
At BG- and RTWPfags.

Lol at this self ownage, more people cared about DOS2.

DOS2 backers:
42,713

PFWOTR backers:
35,092

The pathfinder autists had deeper pockets, that's all.

The proper term is (land)whales.

Anyway PFWOTR seems to be wisely catering to furry audiences now (not that it's a bad thing, mind you). Will it also include TB from get-go?

Maybe it will be worth a spin, actually?

Then there is also the guy who has a necromancer/magic fetish and mistakes his personal taste as objective facts whenever that fantasy is not properly recognized in a video game.

You haven't truly masturbated until you've done it with Bigby's Hand.

True story.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Anyway PFWOTR seems to be wisely catering to furry audiences now (not that it's a bad thing, mind you). Will it also include TB from get-go?

TB isn't in the alpha test but based on the Kickstarter news I believe it is intended to be a feature at release, yes.

 

[Cryomancer]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP? I only managed to complete some harsher encounters on kingmaker with turn based mod and loved dark sun : shattered lands and temple of elemental evil. so i an NOT a "rtwpfag"

 

[DraQ]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

 

[Desiderius]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP? I only managed to complete some harsher encounters on kingmaker with turn based mod and loved dark sun : shattered lands and temple of elemental evil. so i an NOT a "rtwpfag"

Don't feed the troll, Sorc.

 

[Desiderius]

Gotta hand it to you, DraQ, you RP a Green Dragon exceptionally well. The Evil of the Green Dragon is fueled as much by his resentment of the superiority of the Black as his distaste for the righteousness of the Gold. Likewise your resentment of the better men who appreciate RTwP seeps out of every word you disgrace us with on the subject.

Some cucks just like to watch the world burn.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

Arcanum is my favorite game ever but the combat sucks in TB or RTWP mode.
Kingmaker has much better combat with or without the TB mod - with the TB mod the only thing it is really missing is an easy way to do a 5-foot step I think.

Larian has a good TB system worked out already that should be easy to adapt into what they want. I think RTWP probably isn't the best use of their resources but if they did do it, I don't think it would cause much of the TB mode, if any.

 

[Ontopoly]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

True. Troika was much more competent than Larian. If they can't do it, it's best Larian doesn't even attempt it. Good thing owlcat isn't completely inept. Lots of bugs but they aren't full useless degenerates

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Troika was much more competent than Larian.

Larian: 1996-
Troika: 1998-2005

 

[FranticDistortion]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

True. Troika was much more competent than Larian. If they can't do it, it's best Larian doesn't even attempt it. Good thing owlcat isn't completely inept. Lots of bugs but they aren't full useless degenerates

If Troika was so good, how come it's dead?

 

[Lawntoilet]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

True. Troika was much more competent than Larian. If they can't do it, it's best Larian doesn't even attempt it. Good thing owlcat isn't completely inept. Lots of bugs but they aren't full useless degenerates

If Troika was so good, how come it's dead?

Because Troika was too pure for this world, like a candle in the wind.

Spoiler

and just as unreliable, too

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP?

Hint: Check out "Arcanum".

Spoiler

Because they are not abject morons and don't want to double or triple their workload implementing wonky feature not matching the source mechanics that no sane player will ever use.

True. Troika was much more competent than Larian. If they can't do it, it's best Larian doesn't even attempt it. Good thing owlcat isn't completely inept. Lots of bugs but they aren't full useless degenerates

If Troika was so good, how come it's dead?

Larian survived because Sven cannot be killed. They made DD which almost killed them, then Beyond Divinity which was horrible, cheap cash-in with poor reception so obviously it saved the company. Then for 4 years they made shitty educational games to stay afloat to release Dvinity 2. Divinity 2 had mild reviews which didn't stop Larian from making an expansion pack for it and re-releasing it a couple more times for good measure.
Troika on the other hand released 3 games, all using different engines, rulesets and genres. No expansion packs, no follow-up sequels, no nothing. I don't know if it was publisher's interference that didn't let them do that but perhaps if they made 2 expansion packs for Arcanum and Arcanum II in the same engine a year or two later they would survive a bit longer.

 

[sullynathan]

One interesting tidbit is how the divinity original sin 2 steam page has Larian as the creator of baldur's gate 3, even though it's not released. Prestige.

 

[Ontopoly]

Troika was too passionate and pure for a world filled with larians and Bethesdas. We didn't deserve them and they provided for us anyways. We should be grateful that we got anything at all.

One interesting tidbit is how the divinity original sin 2 steam page has Larian as the creator of baldur's gate 3, even though it's not released. Prestige.

Shameless cunts.

 

[sullynathan]

where did all the discussion about mana and non-mana systems even come from? Gone back almost 10 pages and can't find it.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

where did all the discussion about mana and non-mana systems even come from? Gone back almost 10 pages and can't find it.

I think it sprung from discussion about cooldowns being illogical.

 

[NJClaw]

Well I'm just glad you two were able to come in and contribute to the betterment of the thread. Keep up the good work. Proud of you

Who are you?

I am Ontopoly. Player of the realms of rpgs. Master of swords and spells. Manipulator of .Ini files. Devourer of antagonists. Champion of the great halls of achievements. The sword coast knows me as bhaal spawn. The people of Arcanum know me as the living one. I am known in morrowind as the Nerevarine. And there are more titles. Titles that you do not even know. Titles that if uttered aloud would tear the minds of casuals such as yourselves apart.

So, an 8th-grader with edgelord complex.

All that matters here is your accounts age, and I got you beat there, Mr.february

Do you ever contribute anything useful to a thread?

Are you blind? He IS the thread.

 

[Anonona]

I love giving options to the player BUT PF WotR will have Turn Based, PoE 2 received a turn based after his release. A mod managed to put turn based for PFKM, why Larian doesn't give the option of RtWP? I only managed to complete some harsher encounters on kingmaker with turn based mod and loved dark sun : shattered lands and temple of elemental evil. so i an NOT a "rtwpfag"

I disagree here. Even if Turn Based mod worked very well in P:KM (which it did because the source rules were TB), I argue using it actively made the game worse by the simple fact that the AI wasn't ready to handle such a thing. Everyone who uses the mod has claimed that it made combat easier, and that is the main reason why, killing the challenge of the fight. Furthermore, because of the differences between RtWP and TB (almost totally free movement, being able to "kite" even if a bit to avoid being flat footed first round and the like) one of the modes is always going to suffer mechanically. So both Arcanum and PoE 2 had issues if playing one mode or the other, with Arcanum being able to rapid fire certain spells and PoE 2 making martial worse in TB. Introducing both is wasting resources, and I actually think that P:WoR should just stick to RTwP as they already have a good and functioning system. If anything, I fear that TB would be little more than "copy-pasting" the original mod because of the high amount of content they want to add.

 

[Lawntoilet]

If anything, I fear that TB would be little more than "copy-pasting" the original mod because of the high amount of content they want to add.

As I understand it that's basically what they're doing, a more polished/integrated version of the mod. Why would that be a bad thing?
Their focus is still primarily on RTWP but they are also focusing on improving the AI.

Maybe it is just because I haven't played low-level Kingmaker for a while but the enemies in the WotR alpha seem smarter than KM.

 

[Agame]

Troika was much more competent than Larian.

Larian: 1996-
Troika: 1998-2005

Yes... mediocre shit sells, because the world is made up of mongoloids and hoople-heads that dont understand art.

PS: Bethesda 1986-

 

[Anonona]

As I understand it that's basically what they're doing, a more polished/integrated version of the mod. Why would that be a bad thing?
Their focus is still primarily on RTWP but they are also focusing on improving the AI.

Maybe it is just because I haven't played low-level Kingmaker for a while but the enemies in the WotR alpha seem smarter than KM.

As I say, is because in those three games, P:KM, Arcanum and PoE 2 one mode had to suffer for different reasons, and in Pathfinder case it was because the AI just couldn't adjust to TB and use it to its advantage, just like with the Closer to Tabletop mod they were unable to flank your characters. So, if they want to make it work, they must design two set of AI, one which work in RtWP and another in TB. Owlcat is a relatively small company as far as I'm aware, and is clear they had a limited amount of resources which brought some issues for the first game (reused empty areas for example). They are already promising quite a lot of impressive things with the second game (HoMM combat, different storylines routes) which I'll say even big companies would struggle to do right. Considering all of this, I see two likely scenarios:

• They actually left the AI just like it was, but have more intelligent encounter design that mask this. It will work like a charm in RtWP and will be fun, but TB will be mediocre and the AI won't keep up, ruining otherwise great fights.
• Despite better AI, the enemy still cannot keep up in TB because it was designed in RtWP first and TB makes it easy to exploit.

And a less likely scenario:

• The AI will be just better in TB, because they focused on that too much (not gonna happen though)

Now, if Owlcat manages, not only to keep all the content they want, make it good, and then add a AI that functions both roughly equally in TB and RtWP, I would have to take off my hat, because that would be really impressive.

 

[Cryomancer]

A lot of alphas are saying that the AI is much better on the second game.

But you guys are right. Is better for a game to focus on RtWP or TB.

Larian could include a option to skip animations and put enemies in concurrent turns. Since there is a team initiative, it will work better than ToEE.

 

[Lacrymas]

Speaking of team initiative, can we tell Larian not to hardcore the turn order this time around so we can mod in proper initiative?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Troika was much more competent than Larian.

Larian: 1996-
Troika: 1998-2005

Yes... mediocre shit sells, because the world is made up of mongoloids and hoople-heads that dont understand art.

PS: Bethesda 1986-

Troika went under because they didn't master the art of slamdunk. You should never make 1 game in one engine. Unless you are Richard Gariott or something.
There is one rule to survival in the harsh cRPG environment: once you make a game that someone sorta likes, milk it dry.
Goldbox: 14 different games if I counted correctly
Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne: the game itself had 2 re-releases and the combat system along with demon models were used in: Digital Devil Saga, Digital Devil Saga 2, Persona 3 (re-released twice), Persona 4 (re-released once)
Infinity Engine: Baldur's Gate, Tales from the Sword Coast expansion, Baldur's Gate 2, Throne of Bhaal expansion, Icewind Dale, Trial of the Luremaster expansion, Icewind Datel 2, Planescape Torment.
That's how you do it. Someone like Arcanum so I don't understand why there was no straight-sequel like a year later. I don't know if it was Troika's fault or just Sierra being stupid but someone didn't think things through.

I hope both Larian and Owlcat will milk their engines for at least 2 more games.