Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[onemananadhisdroid]

The trouble is, I didn't like Wasteland 2, PoE 2 and DOS 2 very much, and I didn't like them because those companies all seemed to be uncomfortable on the cRPG genre as they kept seeking ways of widening their appeal almost as an obsession, there wasn't a talk about how to improve RPGs and new ambitious ideas but how to improve accessibility and many times to the detriment of their games, it always seemed to me they were marketing to us more out of necessity than desire.

Swens necessity according to his blog posts is eventually earning enough money to make his Dream RPG™ (e.g. Swen's Ultima VII).

I’m a guy that started a game development company because he was inspired by Ultima VII to make huge RPGs, with a vision of a free systemic game-world coupled to a strong storyline and powerful character development mechanics. But all I talked about here was more cost-efficiency, more company focus and higher margins.

Still, I don’t think there’s any other route. To be able to fulfill the ambition of the “very big RPG that will dwarf them all”, we need to cash-rich enough to disappear from the planet for a couple of years, and focus on doing only that.

Now whether BG3 is intended to be his Dream RPG (e.g. Swen's Ultima VII) or the means by which Larian would become "cash-rich enough to […] Focus on doing only that" time and game may tell. Gather your coins, Larian!

 

[Infinitron]

I've always thought the Dream RPG would end up being Divinity 3. Baldur's Gate 3 would be an opportunity to prototype the technology that'll be used for it. But who knows really.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Whats Swen's mystical Dream RPG supposed to have anyway that they have not done with DivOS2 already? Has he ever clarified specific characteristics of this dream RPG or is it just some faint ideal used as guideline?

 

[Ulrox]

Whats Swen's mystical Dream RPG supposed to have anyway that they have not done with DivOS2 already? Has he ever clarified specific characteristics of this dream RPG or is it just some faint ideal used as guideline?

If their marketing is to be believed - dungeons and dragons, which might mean, the help of wizards of the coast, their lore and worldbuilding.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

His dream RPG, of course, is not TB or RTwP.

He wants to make big bucks after all. And when he failed from the remnant of the studio he will make traditional CRPG again, starting the cycle anew. Forever and ever.

 

[Xeon]

Would have thought DOS would be the dream RPG, he covered almost all his checks, including playing Co-op with his girlfriend/wife.

 

[Ulrox]

I've always thought the Dream RPG would end up being Divinity 3. Baldur's Gate 3 would be an opportunity to prototype the technology that'll be used for it. But who knows really.

I always thought the original sin games were very similar to Baldur's gate. Even though the games aren't real time with pause, it felt as if there was a lot of inspiration taken from pen and paper. I also thought they took a lot from the original fallout games, especially with the traits / perks. Which deeply changed how your character worked, also the fact that you could steal pretty much everything felt very falloutish to me, since that was something I was doing back in those games aswell.

Perhaps my intuition on this is so spot on, that we're going to be seeing a fallout spin off from Larian after Baldur's gate 3.

 

[Xeon]

Man, if they could do a Fallout game that would be amazing. Don't think I mind seeing anyone who wants to work on Fallout as long as they can do another old Fallouts or FNV like.

Maybe if BG sells a lot more then Larian will have cash to buy IPs instead of licensing or something and make other games.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

after going through a dozen or so pages, I am now convinced that this shit will not be TB.



The gameplay will probably be like skyrim or twitcher with the comments about the to-hit d20 mechanics not working "today".

There was a time when Sven fought for a TB cRPG like the good old days of DOS kickstarter.

The sjw brigade came and shat on DOS2, but still ti managed to be TB (with popamole armor system).

Now Sven has become one of (((them))). A big publisher bringing "next-gen" titles to us.

His dream of really big cRPG is dead

 

[Quillon]

DAO and NWN2 weren't 300 members dev projects with advanced mocap for the dialogue cinematics.

No RPG has "advanced mocap for the dialogue cinematics", there is just too much dialogue in an RPG for that. AC: Odyssey prolly had over 1k devs worked on it, you don't see mocap for dialogues. Mocap is for only the very important scenes in an RPG. Yeah NWN2's cinematic dialogues was pretty bad but DAO's were good IIRC, at the time. 300 devs won't make a 4A game or whatever you are imagining.

 

[Mortmal]

The dream rpg ? No it will be the google stadia flagship game, clever man, it probably wield a lot more to work with google than an epic store exclusive deal.

 

[Melcar]

Whatever it is, it will be one where you never miss.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

will be one where you never miss

Never miss anything but the predecessors, more like.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Whats Swen's mystical Dream RPG supposed to have anyway that they have not done with DivOS2 already? Has he ever clarified specific characteristics of this dream RPG or is it just some faint ideal used as guideline?

Presumably, it's a game that will see Darth Roxor fuming in his review.

http://www.lar.net/2013/10/28/fume/

One of the more depressing things ever since the announcement that Larian will go "all-in" with BG3 is the suspicious they will make a Dragon Age, TES or Witcher. Whilst that suspicious is well deserved as that's basically the holy Troika of AAA RPGs -- there are so many different directions you can utilize a big budget for. Dragon Age for all ist "cinematic" coat is just as static a game world as the Infinity Engine games. Tackle quests, unlock dialogue Options, kill the bad guy, move on to the Sequel. An Ultima 7 -like game with contemporary production values is impossible on a budget.

It's one of the things I'm most interested in when they present some gameplay: Did they utilize some their cash for improving NPC scheduling, world reactivity, the means you can interact with it all? And given that their focus will be on the Party and their system driven Approach: Do they move party interaction beyond gradually unlocking dialogue options out of companions, maybe by introducing some AI as opposed to scripted sequences into the mix? AI that may make that "chaotic Evil" member of your Party on the occasion cause trouble at the worst possible Moments? I hope they do.

But then again…

 

[turkishronin]

Spell cooldown

 

[Fairfax]

It seems the Codex's favourite blogger will be covering the game:

Baldur's Gate 3: Larian Studios' Official Announcement
"An ancient evil has returned to Baldur's Gate, intent on devouring it from the inside out. The fate of Faerûn lies in your hands. Alone, you may resist. But together, you can overcome ... Prepare for the return of a malevolent presence to Baldur's Gate, intent on devouring it from the inside out, corrupting everything that remains in the Forgotten Realms. Gather your party". - Larian Studios.



Welcome to my 333rd blogpost. Yes, Larian Studios' have officially announced Baldur's Gate 3. My new Baldur's Gate 3 index page - which contains my initial, pre-announcement predictions - is posted here.

Does that mean I will be commentating on Baldur's Gate 3, then? Most likely. Afterall, this is a Baldur's Gate blog not just in its content and spirit (BG is referenced throughout) but also in regard to traffic.

So my intent is to use my prolific base of Baldur's Gate content (150 write-ups) as both a boost to my Baldur's Gate 3 commentary and also as leverage against any upstart Baldur's Gate 3 commentators.

BG3 won't be judged on its own merits and flaws but ultimately it will be judged against its predecessors. That is the yardstick by which we measure. "In and of itself" or "compared to Divinity" are utterly irrelevant. You put a "3" there and you're going to be compared to "1" and "2".



For the most part I've ignored Larian's cheap, quirky and puerile Baldur's Gate knock-offs (they started making those in 2002), but I won't ignore their Baldur's Gate 3 because I can use it to my advantage. I can make my BG3 commentary take off because I already have a solid BG base. Conversely, the effect is reciprocal in that hype generated by BG3 compels people to consult my Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 coverage. Back and forth, back and forth, hits, views, whatever you want to call them: blog grows.

The problems foreseeable are:

• Am I motivated enough? and
• Do I have time for Baldur's Gate 3?

At the moment, the answer is in the affirmative. But yeah, time is the harshest taskmaster.

The good part is, too: I don't need to be nice and always say good things about Larian Studios/Baldur's Gate 3 in order for my BG3 commentary to be read, and I don't need their promotion because I've already got my base.

So then, what can readers expect of my Baldur's Gate 3 coverage?

Answer: commentary and criticism, not just commentary.

I'll tell it like it is throughout the dev cycle: if the game starts looking good I'll say so. And if it starts looking like shit (a reskinned Divinity) I'll say so as well. And by "looking like" I don't mean visuals. Visuals are part of the equation but they are small-time stuff in comparison to the nuts and bolts. We'll be able to discern a lot from what Larian PR puts out, and how they frame the information. Do they know what Baldur's Gate is? We'll know soon enough.

This is Captain Obvious speaking, and I apologize for the blatantly obvious remark, but it needs to be stated that Larian Studios certainly have their work cut out for them. They (that is, around 300 people) are going to attempt to please one of the most dedicated, knowledgeable and experienced fan-bases in the genre. There are people who haven't stopped playing Baldur's Gate since it came out in 1998. Experienced devs, having cited BG in their pitches, have gone on and tried to recreate BG in what they call "spiritual successors", and none have stacked up. Can BG3 stand alongside its predecessors and not be laughed at, booed and egged off-stage? Time will tell.

The Baldur's Gate name is legendary in the genre. Divinity, Eternity, Numenera? Never heard of them. Baldur's Gate is undying and the others are ephemeral. Baldur's Gate will be there long after the others have been entombed and forgotten. This is a shrewd acquisition by Larian and a big announcement.

Is it courageous or an act of impudence to take on the task of developing BG3?

Yeah, it's early days yet, but a few things have been said so far that suggest BG3 will not please veterans (such as the city of Baldur's Gate not being fully explorable). And the tone of the PR is high-energy and positive but it's also vapid like the mainstream interviews, and not targeted at the veteran demographic.

The combat system also hasn't been announced: real-time with pause or turn-based tactical? There are maybe two reasons for this:

• Larian don't know themselves yet and are currently gauging the fanbase, but the fanbase is divided into "If it's not RTwP then it's not Baldur's Gate" and "It's not D&D if it's RTwP / TBT is superior." In regard to the latter, there is also the existing Larian fanbase that are accustomed to TBT.
• Larian know, and the combat system won't be RTwP or turn-based: it will be fully real-time/an action RPG. This one should have been ruled out by Larian straight off the bat as it would prevent negative speculation.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Man this thread would be more spicier with Lilura

I miss her/him

 

[Efe]

i wish lilura was here to argue with some of you. (without mentioning her blog, if such a thing is possible)

 

[J_C]

The fate of Faerûn lies in your hands. Alone, you may resist.

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

The fate of Faerûn lies in your hands. Alone, you may resist.

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

Well, that's kind of what DnD is usually.

I mean look at the progression.

ODD - ADND1e: Go into tomb, steal gold, don't die.
ADND2e: Go on Epic Quests and Save the World
3e: And Save the World, but you can crazy fine-tune your character
4e: And Save the World, but you can make the best wargame char ever
5e: And Save the World, but the """challenge""" of building a good character is gone now

It's funny, too, because all of the most beloved and well regarded modules were just adventures that usually did not involve saving the world. Ravenloft is just "kill dracula in his castle"(although you could roll on the optional "Strahd's evil plan" table, but generally that wasn't necessary and wasnt in any of the original playtesting). Tomb of Horrors was written because Gary got called out for shitting gold and magic items onto his players too much. Isle of Dread is just....it's just you exploring an island, that's it. Nothing special or overly interesting. Keep on the Borderlands is just hanging out dealing with a local conflict.

The ones that did involve saving the world didn't usually take multiple sessions or an entire campaign like they do now. Usually it's some fuck-ass cult that's summoning an evil thing and then you stop it. The Temple of Elemental Evil 5e adventure is a full blown level 1-15 campaign that would probably take a full year of sessions to get through culminating in a epic fight against the elemental lords! Very little of DnD is nuanced or small these days. Nobody wants "Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser deal with a freaky monster", they want Lord of the Ringshit

 

[d1r]

The fate of Faerûn lies in your hands. Alone, you may resist.

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

Yeah. This is going to be a goody-two shoes game with only Lawful Good/Neutral companions trying to save the world. Say goodbye to any chance of seeing characters like Xzar or Shar-Teel in this game then.

 

[Roguey]

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

All the BGs had big "save the sword coast" plots. One of the big hooks is that they put a personal stake in it for the PC as additional motivation.

Yeah. This is going to be a goody-two shoes game with only Lawful Good/Neutral companions trying to save the world. Say goodbye to any chance of seeing characters like Xzar or Shar-Teel in this game then.

Baldur's Gate actively punished you for role playing an evil character.

 

[Chippy]

Maybe everyone agonizing over whether it will be TB / isometric, etc will be pleasantly suprised if the "BG3 aims to do what no other RPG has done before" hype is an indication of their huge budget and team making a game with all camera angles and playstyles...?

...Is this the bargaining step on the 5 stages David Gaider was talking about...

 

[smaug]

I’m sure it’ll be like D:OS2, because why would they alienate there already huge audience for that type of style? No sense in dramatically changing the combat unless your a dumbass.

 

[J_C]

Yep, we are getting a world saving scenario. Fuck! The infinity engine games were about local or personal conflicts, not about saving the world. Do game writers have no imagination so they always fall back to this cliche?

All the BGs had big "save the sword coast" plots. One of the big hooks is that they put a personal stake in it for the PC as additional motivation.

Yeah, but not in a mustache twirling kind of way. Sarevok used political and economical tricks to increase his influence on the Sword Coast. He didn't want to destroy every human on it. In BG2, Irenicus seeked the power of a god, but I don't remember him wanting to destroy the world.