Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Tihskael]

In one of his YT vids he was talking about how insanely hard it was to get people to do things at Obsidian while making TOW because everyone acted like babies (him writing people's names next to assignments on a whiteboard was seen as hostile or something, and people threatened to leave when he made a daily goal list), so from that I assume that he was doing a lot of effective organising and directing with Fallout.

Which video was that?

 

[Lemming42]

Which video was that?

I think it was this one:

 

[NecroLord]

Which video was that?

I think it was this one:

Tim trying to cast a spell.

 

[Roguey]

Lessons by company



At Peagsus/Cybrone he learned that no one will give you things unless you ask and that not everyone gets treated fairly.

At Interplay he learned the value of cohesive teams and that success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

At Troika he learned he wasn't a good businessman and that companies should exist to make money.

At Carbine he learned that people aren't fungible and that money isn't worth stress.

At Obsidian he learned not to see things in black and white, that Feargus was far better at handling publishers than he was, and that there are a lot of people who refuse to take responsibility for when things go wrong and are quick to throw others under the bus instead.

At the end he notes a lesson for publishers: his two highest scoring games, Fallout and Pillars of Eternity, were the only ones with no publisher interference of any sort. Codex seething about that last one.

 

[0sacred]

Tim low key bragging that he didn't network at Troika and "shake hands" but just wanted to make games.

 

[Colonel Mutt]

I got bored of his channel, too much attention seeking.

He posts too often.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about Fallout's effect on me and my career.

 

[S.torch]

At Troika he learned he wasn't a good businessman and that companies should exist to make money.

None of the Troika games were financial failures though? All of these games are cult classics.

 

[Modron]

Everyone always memes Troika went bankrupt when they just closed the studio rather than make shovelware. They went to that Fallout 3 auction with a decent warchest but couldn't compete with that 20 something million Bethesda slapped on the table.

 

[Roguey]

None of the Troika games were financial failures though? All of these games are cult classics.

They weren't successful enough to keep Troika awash in projects they could be excited about. Tim envies Feargus. Yeah there was that dark period where working on other peoples' MMOs was keeping the lights on, but those are still RPGs, and doing that allowed smaller teams to make Pillars and Tyranny.

 

[0sacred]

Tim has a chip on his shoulder about being the RPG guy

it's not like he didn't have the chance at Troika. But 5 bucks says anything but an RPG by Tim would suck.

 

[S.torch]

They weren't successful enough to keep Troika awash in projects they could be excited about.

And how is Obsidian any better? They're owned by Microsoft, not an independent studio. At any given time if the winds change they can be completely laid off or outright killed if the higher ups decide so. Just like they've been doing with many others.

 

[Alienman]

Is it a video about radiation?

 

[Roguey]

And how is Obsidian any better?

Obsidian's been around for over 20 years which is significantly longer than Troika's run.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

He says he was a poor businessman but learned a lot from failure.

He was a poor ladiesman, but learned a lot about cupping balls?

Interplay brought a programmer over to confirm that he wasn't using any Fallout code because they were very paranoid and litigious.

It's really easy to write code that does something the second or third time. It was probably way harder for Tim to write the same thing differently than he'd written in Fallout than it would be to write it the way he wrote it for Fallout.

 

[S.torch]

Obsidian's been around for over 20 years

Didn't they started to live off of Kickstarter fumes and gamer clout around 2013? That's just 10 years, since they were not living of their sucessful business practice but of the goodwill of the fans. Besides the comparison is unfair because Kickstarter and Internet weren't that strong when Troika was around.

I'm not a Larian fan but if you wanted to give an example of successful I will give Larian and Swen. Larian is older than both Troika and Obsidian and just a few years ago most people didn't know they existed, they survived making mid RPGs and taking crappy deals from galaxy brain publishers that thought Diablo-clones were the fastest step to riches. But since Larian survived long enough to the Kickstarter era, they started to do their own games and with that they hit gold. Today they are an independent studio. Obsidian is not.

Then again I would say Larian surviving is an example of living on pure stubbornness, not epic self-made businessman.

 

[normie]

Which video was that?

I think it was this one:

real game development caution
there's gay guys with gay cooties in the office, you'll know them when they ask you to make the Vault Dweller's dumper bigger in the ending cinematic

 

[NecroLord]

Everyone always memes Troika went bankrupt when they just closed the studio rather than make shovelware. They went to that Fallout 3 auction with a decent warchest but couldn't compete with that 20 something million Bethesda slapped on the table.

I wanted Van Buren to become a reality.

 

[Roguey]

Didn't they started to live off of Kickstarter fumes and gamer clout around 2013?

No, they were living off working on other peoples' MMOs (Skyforge, Armored Warfare). The kickstarter was a pittance that could support a few dozen devs.

Besides the comparison is unfair because Kickstarter and Internet weren't that strong when Troika was around.

Obsidian only started a few years after Troika and they survived through it with their Bioware connections (kotor 2 with LucasArts, nwn2 with Atari), Disney (Seven Dwarfs), Sega (Aliens, Alpha Protocol), Bethesda (New Vegas), Square Enix (Dungeon Siege III), Microsoft (Stormlands), and THQ/Ubisoft (South Park).

I'm not a Larian fan but if you wanted to give an example of successful I will give Larian and Swen. Larian is older than both Troika and Obsidian and just a few years ago most people didn't know they existed, they survived making mid RPGs and taking crappy deals from galaxy brain publishers that thought Diablo-clones were the fastest step to riches. But since Larian survived long enough to the Kickstarter era, they started to do their own games and with that they hit gold. Today they are an independent studio. Obsidian is not.

Difficult to say how much of Larian's better success comes down to luck or Swen's own skill. His tastes are as comparably bad as Feargus's and there are a lot of stories of his own underhanded behavior.

However Tim's not going to talk about Swen because he doesn't know him. He knows Feargus.

 

[Abu Antar]

I got bored of his channel, too much attention seeking.

He posts too often.

I watch two or three videos per week.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Roguey]

"What if magic was more hardcore?"



Would only happen in a game with a small budget. People don't even like using consumables when they're given in abundance due to the "I might need them later" mindset. If they're rare, forget it.

Tim praises how crafting cost xp in 3rd edition/ToEE which contributed to my not crafting a single item until after I hit the level cap.

 

[0sacred]

> complains about being the RPG guy
> writes wizard fanfic at night under his blanket

 

[scytheavatar]

Difficult to say how much of Larian's better success comes down to luck or Swen's own skill. His tastes are as comparably bad as Feargus's and there are a lot of stories of his own underhanded behavior.

However Tim's not going to talk about Swen because he doesn't know him. He knows Feargus.

No one gives a shit about Feargus or Swen's "bad tastes" or "underhanded behavior", what that matters is that Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus. Swen never panders and never chases trend unlike Feargus. While Feargus is happy for Obsidian to remain under the shadows of better studios, Swen understands the importance of standing out in the industry and doing stuff the competitors are not doing.

Not to mention Larian clearly tries to make games that appeal to a much wider audience than Obsidian does.

 

[Roguey]

No one gives a shit about Feargus or Swen's "bad tastes" or "underhanded behavior", what that matters is that Swen is objectively and undeniably a way better businessman than Feargus.

They're both better than Tim but neither of them are what I would consider good. The game industry is lacking in good businessmen.

Swen never panders and never chases trend unlike Feargus.