Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Bulo]

Why doesn't Avellone jump on the "make videos of myself talking on Youtube" trend?

While playing Arcanum

 

[ds]

I talk about using game content as a reward...and why you don't see that much.

Don't most players not complete the game anyway? At least that seems to be the case with anything that has story-based Steam achievements. So it's already the case for endgame content that most people won't see it, even if the game is completely linear.

 

[Butter]

Don't most players not complete the game anyway? At least that seems to be the case with anything that has story-based Steam achievements. So it's already the case for endgame content that most people won't see it, even if the game is completely linear.

Developers already adapted to the meta and just frontload their best content (see: Larian).

The real solution to the cost problem isn't fucking procgen. Tim says in the video that it was easier to justify content as a reward 20 years ago when games were cheaper, but then he skips over the part where games should just be made cheaper. The entire genre of visual novels is built on this concept: rock bottom production costs means you can have extensive story branching.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Developers already adapted to the meta and just frontload their best content (see: Larian).

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

 

[Tyranicon]

All media frontloads their best content, including books, tv and film. Always has been. This is old as dirt.

That's not a problem when they take care to make sure their end content is also at least decent.

It's when you have something like this that it becomes a problem, and since nu media is all lazy as shit and made by anti-talent, it's all this:

 

[NecroLord]

Why doesn't Avellone jump on the "make videos of myself talking on Youtube" trend?

While playing Arcanum

And getting killed by the pitiful starting area wolves...

 

[luj1]

In Brigand: Oaxaca skill and movement affect the reticule. It's a very fun game, you should try it.

I played the demo because it was featured on the Codex curator and it was awful.

Keep in mind Roguey is the type of ?guy? who praises Pillars (ranked #63 by the Codex) and shuns Arcanum (perennial Codex top 3). It's highly doubtful that xir can even differentiate between good and bad.

 

[luj1]

Based on the "it's not fun" feedback, there's universal consensus among professional game designers that it's bad, which is why no one's used it since the 00s.

In Brigand: Oaxaca skill and movement affect the reticule. It's a very fun game, you should try it.

Keep in mind that for Roguey "professional game designers" basically equals Josh Soyer and Tim Cain. The former managed to quickly capture the title of worst system designer in the last 20 years. The latter "created" Outer Worlds

 

[Roguey]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

 

[rojay]

Based on the "it's not fun" feedback, there's universal consensus among professional game designers that it's bad, which is why no one's used it since the 00s.

In Brigand: Oaxaca skill and movement affect the reticule. It's a very fun game, you should try it.

Keep in mind that for Roguey "professional game designers" basically equals Josh Soyer and Tim Cain. The former managed to quickly capture the title of worst system designer in the last 20 years. The latter "created" Outer Worlds

At least he posts about games. On a forum about games. You, on the other hand, are completely useless.

 

[luj1]

I think you are just butthurt rojay. I made more threads on game design and RPG theory than you, Roguey and Infinitron combined. In fact, more than 95% of this forum. Who are you, even?

 

[Infinitron]

This should be fun:

I talk about the worst job interview I ever experienced as a hiree...well, two interviews, since it's a tie.

 

[Roguey]

That final story was a treat. In 2018 someone from a Big Company headhunted him saying they had a great opportunity available. He goes to the interview - and it turns out to be a position as a Localization Producer. Absolutely devastated:

Driving home I was having trouble processing how I felt. I wasn't angry, I wasn't disappointed, I wasn't sad. I finally realized how I felt: I was embarrassed. I had let myself think for a few days before that lunch that someone had finally recognized my work, that someone powerful had seen the IPs I worked on directly - Fallout, Arcanum, Wild Star, Outer Worlds - and those that I helped create - Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny - and thought "let's back this guy and see what he can do with a huge set of resources under his control," and I had fantasized about what kind of game that would be. I had lots of ideas, lots of notebooks filled with potential new IPs, but no, he asked me to be a localization producer. He had no idea who I was or what I had done. I spent a few happy days thinking he did, and now, now I was just embarrassed.

 

[0sacred]

Allegedly Tim was exposed to sexism during job interviews.

Spoiler

someone called him an oldfag

 

[Strange Fellow]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

 

[Butter]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's beginning is as bad as its ending.

 

[Strange Fellow]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's beginning is as bad as its ending.

The beginning is a bit long. The end is unacceptable as a product someone once asked money for, let alone a coherent end to the story.

 

[Roguey]

Feargus gets called out (indirectly):


He also says this happened at his own company but doesn't cite specific examples, so I guess he's referring to some publisher demand? After all there was no one in the company higher up than him, Jason, and Leonard.

 

[NecroLord]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's beginning is as bad as its ending.

The cut ending that is restored by The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod?
You are aware that there are multiple endings with different variations, right?

 

[Butter]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's beginning is as bad as its ending.

The cut ending that is restored by The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod?
You are aware that there are multiple endings with different variations, right?

The game is uniformly terrible.

 

[luj1]

The game is uniformly terrible.

Neither KotOR is peak Renaissance but the second one is Obsidians first and best game. It's all downhill from there.

 

[NecroLord]

It is a great game and the best Star Wars story ever told.
I was surprised at how much stuff Disney continues to appropriate from KOTOR.
Some retards even referred to Rey as a "wound in The Force", lmao...
Shows that they didn't even play KOTOR 2 and do not know what that term even means.

 

[Strange Fellow]

To be fair, this has always been the meta and devs have frontloaded their best content since the dawn of time.

A lot of classic RPGs have bad-beginning problems (hence the old cliche of "it gets better x hours in"). The RPG with the polished beginning is relatively new.

More than have bad endgames? I can't name an RPG (which isn't just awful throughout) that has nearly as bad a beginning as the end of, say, Omikron or KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's beginning is as bad as its ending.

The cut ending that is restored by The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod?
You are aware that there are multiple endings with different variations, right?

The game is uniformly terrible.

Your extreme wrongness about KOTOR 2 notwithstanding, this is exactly why I said I was talking about RPGs that aren't awful from beginning to end. If you think everything about a game is shit, of course the beginning is as bad as the end.

Replying to NecroLord: I've played with the mod and the ending was still a disjointed unfinished disaster. Maybe it's worse in the original game, it's been so long since I played that that I can't remember anything about it other than how shockingly bad it was. I'm not about to go check, I will never finish KOTOR 2 again. Anyway, the fact that even the mod comes nowhere close to saving it really says it all.

 

[luj1]

No need to use that mod tbh. It does more harm than good.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah TSLRC has went full retard long ago.