Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Abu Antar]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

Did they ever even work on a same project?

Not that I know of, but it always seemed to me like there was mutual respect.

 

[Warhawk47]

I wish he wouldn't keep emphasizing that "everybody" in the industry is a jerkoff just itching to screw you (personally) over. Even if he's right as far as mainstream, west coast devs go, the least he could do is be a bit more positive about turning it around somehow, grass roots or what have you.

As for his comments about "one point fiasco" it underlines my previous point: His experience and skills as a designer and manager are imbalanced. He caved to the majority, directly in contradiction with better overall judgment (which is the role of the designer) and did so at the very end of development when such radical changes to something as essential as core game stats should be anathema (poor management.) If you told Tim to swap out the entire game engine less than 3 months before shipping, he'd tell you to pound sand. As a programmer, he knows that's not only stupid, it's suicidal. Why was his conviction on the design side lacking by comparison? Why did he go with the knee-jerk "solution" anyway? Why not propose (or implement by fiat, because the buck stops there) a compromise solution? Change the sliding scale of increasing point costs, make it cheaper overall, but preserve the exponential increase. Going from exponential to linear isn't a small thing. It would be far easier to iterate this as well, since the established pattern should have been set by previous testing at max "difficulty," giving an upper bound.

He was never trained in business, granted. But it also looks like the logical underpinnings of business decision-making are missing. "Promoted beyond his competence" as the military saying goes. Some part of him seems to admit that, but the remaining ego will not.

 

[Butter]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

Did they ever even work on a same project?

Fallout 2 and Pillars. Doesn't mean they interacted at all though.

 

[conan_edw]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

At least Chris has given a shout out to Tim's channel on different occasions, I think he even posted the Fallout 2 video on his Linkedin page. He must hold a lot of respect for him:

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

They would have been on better terms if Chris Avellone had been paid for it.

 

[Alienman]

There more that get known about development, the more I'm sure that the games we hold dear are just happy accidents.

 

[rojay]

I liked Tim before he became my crazy, drunk aunt explaining how I don't know what it's like to be ...

Not saying he's drunk. Just my aunt.

 

[Zeriel]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

At least Chris has given a shout out to Tim's channel on different occasions, I think he even posted the Fallout 2 video on his Linkedin page. He must hold a lot of respect for him:

There's this dynamic where the original creator of something often undervalues it or doesn't care as much about it as people who like it and work on it later. That might explain some of this. CA definitely seemed to respect Fallout, some of the excesses in 2 notwithstanding.

 

[Zeriel]

There more that get known about development, the more I'm sure that the games we hold dear are just happy accidents.

Oftentimes it's the result of the culture at the time too. There's only so much you can trust someone's opinion 20-30 years after the fact. The person they were back then would probably stridently disagree with the person they are now.

 

[sosmoflux]

I found the 1-point dilemma particularly strange because, in real game development, designers are expected to take in information (in his case, the 16 other team members) and then build satisfying solutions that are well designed and appease most peoples' problems.

No doubt he's being reductive to make a fun point for a video or whatever- but it's kind of a self own that the design lead couldn't figure out a solution beyond one he likes and another everyone else likes. Just, like, design something better, man.

 

[Butter]

Have fewer level-ups. Give more points per level. Increase the cost of higher tier stuff. Holy shit that was a tough nut to crack.

 

[Goral]

Tim Cain talks about sperm:

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

He caved to the majority, directly in contradiction with better overall judgment (which is the role of the designer) and did so at the very end of development when such radical changes to something as essential as core game stats should be anathema (poor management.) If you told Tim to swap out the entire game engine less than 3 months before shipping, he'd tell you to pound sand. As a programmer, he knows that's not only stupid, it's suicidal. Why was his conviction on the design side lacking by comparison? Why did he go with the knee-jerk "solution" anyway? Why not propose (or implement by fiat, because the buck stops there) a compromise solution? Change the sliding scale of increasing point costs, make it cheaper overall, but preserve the exponential increase. Going from exponential to linear isn't a small thing. It would be far easier to iterate this as well, since the established pattern should have been set by previous testing at max "difficulty," giving an upper bound.

It' s because he managed to successfully switch the ruleset of Fallout few weeks before shipping. It gave him a confidence in making such rapid changes right before shipping.

 

[Butter]

Tim Cain talks about sperm:

Again demonstrating that 10x more thought went into Fallout 1 than into any of the Bethesda titles.

 

[Roguey]

It' s because he managed to successfully switch the ruleset of Fallout few weeks before shipping. It gave him a confidence in making such rapid changes right before shipping.

Fallout's system wasn't his. That was Chris Taylor's homebrew that he created in high school, Tim's only contribution was adding Luck.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It' s because he managed to successfully switch the ruleset of Fallout few weeks before shipping. It gave him a confidence in making such rapid changes right before shipping.

Fallout's system wasn't his. That was Chris Taylor's homebrew that he created in high school, Tim's only contribution was adding Luck.

I know that and all problems mentioned concerning doing quick changes to fundamental game mechanics near release still aplpy.

 

[Warhawk47]

The fact that it wasn't his system is the lynchpin: From the sounds of it, I don't think he'd ever designed and built his own (complicated, multi-faceted) game from the bottom up, from the mechanics and interface to the graphics and marketing fluff. His code-engine "toys" didn't seem to fit this bill. Without that experience, he never ran into the first-hand problem of changing something fundamental and breaking the rest of it. It's as if he discounted mechanics as being "easy" to produce and incidental, focusing everything on fluff content (a balance pass wasn't a priority? That's crazy!) Contrast that to myself or any other current-day dev, indie or hobbyist especially, who almost has no choice but to learn these things. Explains a lot, especially if he took "decades" to learn from the aftermath. If you really want to wax philosophical, consider why it took him that long. But that's something better left to the man himself.

 

[PapaPetro]

Are Chris and Tim on good terms?

At least Chris has given a shout out to Tim's channel on different occasions, I think he even posted the Fallout 2 video on his Linkedin page. He must hold a lot of respect for him:

Simultaneous Turns!

 

[normie]

 

[Late Bloomer]

Overweight trust fund recipient who barely plays videos games, stumbles through his words talking about game design and gaming.

 

[Goral]

I talk about the origin of Fallout's post apocalyptic setting, trying to get as close to the actual timeline as my notes allow.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I found the beanie guy's talk and his stumbling over the word stultifying stultifying.

 

[Geomancer86]

He keeps posting daily and I'm wondering what will happen first, will he run of topics or cool unseen shirts first?

 

[Roguey]

Another video firmly establishing that all the RPGs you like are only as good as they are due to luck and circumstance and there was never any grand genius behind them. It's amazing that there are any good RPGs at all.

 

[flyingjohn]

Another video firmly establishing that all the RPGs you like are only as good as they are due to luck and circumstance and there was never any grand genius behind them. It's amazing that there are any good RPGs at all.