Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[StrongBelwas]

Many of Cain's videos are based on things he wished more interviewers asked him.
Tim is rarely asked about the team or other people on the project.
Publishers often pick one developer to be the 'face' of the project, it's believed people respond better to games with that kind of personality.
People often ask him about characters and dialogues, and except for ToEE he was never really involved in that. Wished people more asked about the team so he could point out other's contributions.
Would like more questions about fun stories in production, often involving bugs and their fixing.
Would like to be asked more about how particular levels or features were created. Would like to be asked why they changed certain things from game to game (Tim just had a long discussion with one of his clients because they wanted to do something he only did once in a game and then did entirely different in two games and they wanted to know why.)
Prefers nitty gritty discussion to high level questions.
Tired of questions that are better suited for the publisher, such as what platform the game is coming out on and what language it supports. Just parrots stuff the publisher told him to say.
Sick of generic questions like what was the hardest part of development or what were the influences on your games. Not bad questions, but questions are so generic they can apply to any game. Some interviewers seem like they don't even want to be there and are just going off of a list.
Hard to care about an interview if the person doing the interviewing doesn't seem to care.
Very fond of the interview he did with Game Informer when Outer Worlds came out, still remembers it because of how interested the jounro in question seemed to be. Liked that the interviewer tried to bait them with the rapid fire questions video into talking about more then they were allowed to such as companions or aliens in the game, felt like he cared.
References the TK-Mantis interview very positively, thinks he may know the lore better then Cain does. Suspects some fans may have a better handle on the Fallout lore then he does because his memory can get mixed up with content they decided not to include. Liked that the questions were very specific and knowledgeable. Never spoken to him before, but they could talk like they were old friends. Cain hasn't been to downtown Seattle despite living in the suburbs for 3 years. Apparently Cain is taller then he appears to be (6'1''.)
Cain feels like he comes off as robotic when he rehearses questions, didn't want the questions ahead of time. What you see in that interview is his first reaction to them.
If you're gonna ask Cain a question for the channel, try to have it be something that requires a long form video specifically about the development.

 

[Jaesun]

Liked this video, interviewers that just do a shit job of not asking actual good questions has always just annoyed the shit out of me to (as well as Tim).

Also, for what ever reason, I didn't quite pick up that Tim lives in Seattle? Theoretically, I could one day bump into him one day.

I also just always assumed Tim was shot too... lol

 

[0sacred]

Also, for what ever reason, I didn't quite pick up that Tim lives in Seattle? Theoretically, I could one day bump into him one day.

you might even frequent the same bars

 

[mindx2]

Liked this video, interviewers that just do a shit job of not asking actual good questions has always just annoyed the shit out of me to (as well as Tim).

Also, for what ever reason, I didn't quite pick up that Tim lives in Seattle? Theoretically, I could one day bump into him one day.

I also just always assumed Tim was shot too... lol

But.. but he didn't mention my Pillars of Eternity interview at PAX East?!! I scooped that it was to have two expansions and that Tim owned the ToEE code!! So soon forgotten to time's past...

 

[talan]

Story 1) Tim wasn't allowed to participate in Arcanum design meetings because everyone thought he dominated them and was not very diplomatic in telling people their ideas were stupid. As a result, he refused to implement the tech schematics they had come up with and someone else had to do them. Pretty petty move, sure.

His refusal to do the coding is understandable.
They didn't want him involved in the tech schematics design, so he didn't get involved.
The design is done, it's just a lot of grunt work now, let them get a programmer do it.
And if the feature didn't go well, they could argue that he sabotaged it with his implementation.
On the team's side, it gives them independence and a nice challenge without a "Uncle Tim" safety net to rely on.
Being completely hands-off in this scenario is a good move.

 

[Roguey]

His refusal to do the coding is understandable.
They didn't want him involved in the tech schematics design, so he didn't get involved.
The design is done, it's just a lot of grunt work now, let them get a programmer do it.
And if the feature didn't go well, they could argue that he sabotaged it with his implementation.
On the team's side, it gives them independence and a nice challenge without a "Uncle Tim" safety net to rely on.
Being completely hands-off in this scenario is a good move.

It strikes me as very feminine behavior e.g. https://academic.oup.com/ej/article-abstract/130/627/716/5715606?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false

We study the effect of likeability on women’s and men’s team behaviour in a lab experiment. Extending a two-player public goods game and a minimum effort game by an additional pre-play stage that informs team members about their mutual likeability, we find that female teams lower their contribution to the public good in the event of low likeability, while male teams achieve high levels of co-operation irrespective of the level of mutual likeability. In mixed-sex teams, both women’s and men’s contributions depend on mutual likeability. Similar results are found in the minimum effort game. Our results offer a new perspective on gender differences in labour market outcomes: mutual dislikeability impedes team behaviour, except in all-male teams.

Fallout team worked well together because it was all guys, with Sharon Shellman off doing art in the corner. Arcanum made the mistake of going for that flat organization with no roles, so people resented it when Tim acted like a lead designer anyway, and Shellman having a greater role on the team with the additions of Sissie Chang, Tiffany Chu, and Cynthia Komm possibly contributed to this breakdown.

 

[StrongBelwas]

A loot table is a list of items that can be placed on a creature when it's spawned/kill (Cain prefers to do it when they spawn because his games involve pickpocketing, generally games have it so the loot just spawns when the creature dies)
Several ways to handle loot tables:
* List of items, pick a select amount of them at random, that's what appears on the creature.
* Every item has a probability assigned to it, roll for each item down the list, if they roll for it, they get it.
*Combination, select amount of items, each has probability.
Cain's personal favorite way is to have an intersection between player level and item type that has the list have the best gear for a given level be from that given source (i.e the best helmet for level 50 players is found on a quest, the best leggings at level 30 are found in crafting)
If the level ranges get too high, it could be a long time until the players find a loot source, if the ranges are too narrow, player keeps jumping through new sources.
More loot types then sources will cause either some types will always overlap sources or you can decide one source should never have the best equipment (i.e crafting)
Different sources for ideal gear can help you with a multiple class setup where different characters go for different ways to get loot.

 

[NecroLord]

A loot table is a list of items that can be placed on a creature when it's spawned/kill (Cain prefers to do it when they spawn because his games involve pickpocketing, generally games have it so the loot just spawns when the creature dies)
Several ways to handle loot tables:
* List of items, pick a select amount of them at random, that's what appears on the creature.
* Every item has a probability assigned to it, roll for each item down the list, if they roll for it, they get it.
*Combination, select amount of items, each has probability.
Cain's personal favorite way is to have an intersection between player level and item type that has the list have the best gear for a given level be from that given source (i.e the best helmet for level 50 players is found on a quest, the best leggings at level 30 are found in crafting)
If the level ranges get too high, it could be a long time until the players find a loot source, if the ranges are too narrow, player keeps jumping through new sources.
More loot types then sources will cause either some types will always overlap sources or you can decide one source should never have the best equipment (i.e crafting)
Different sources for ideal gear can help you with a multiple class setup where different characters go for different ways to get loot.

This explains why Power Armor, for example, is found only in a certain location in Fallout and it involves a quest. In Fallout 2, only one set of the godly Advanced Power Armor can be found in the game, and it is in Navarro. Several sets of the inferior T-51b Power Armor are found in Fallout 2, even for sale for enormous amounts of money in San Francisco.
Glad to see Tim is not into random loot...

 

[Wesp5]

Glad to see Tim is not into random loot...

Sadly, he didn't seem to have brought that into The Outer Worlds, because illegal items like the hacking and lockpicking devices could be found all over the place and in much too high quantities too!

 

[Quillon]

Glad to see Tim is not into random loot...

Sadly, he didn't seem to have brought that into The Outer Worlds, because illegal items like the hacking and lockpicking devices could be found all over the place and in much too high quantities too!

TOW's loot table excel sheet has only one line: "fuck ton of crap everywhere"

 

[Roguey]

Tim's disappointed by the blurriness of low resolution games on high resolution monitors. You can alleviate this somewhat with integer scaling, though this obviously means you won't be utilizing your monitor's entire height. And yeah you can use high resolution mods to set it to the monitor's resolution, but that changes the way it looks and his lament is that you can't get Fallout/Arcanum/ToEE looking exactly the way they did on a CRT.

Tim's design philosophy has matured and he cringes at some of his old design decisions.

He's disappointed by the UIs in the pseudo-iso games of course.

He experienced a lot of content he's either never seen before or completely forgotten about and had a good time laughing at it.

"Still fun and hold up, but just a little clunky."

 

[0sacred]

Tim's design philosophy has manured and he cringes at some of his old design decisions.

ftfy

party alignment was like the one good improvement on D&D in TOEE

 

[Infinitron]

 

[NecroLord]

Should've named his dog Dogmeat.

 

[agris]

I played my first four RPGs (Fallout, Arcanum, The Temple of Elemental Evil, and Vampire: Bloodlines) and give my thoughts about experiencing them now, decades later.

Tim-

Fallout 1 can look really crisp on your modern 1920x1080 screen, without looking tiny or ridiculous. Check this out:

1. Install Fallout 1
2. Install the high resolution pach
3. Install Sfall for Fallout 1 (engine function extender .dll mod)
4. Navigate to the F1 installation directory, open f1_res.ini and set GRAPHICS_MODE to 2, SCALE_2X to 0, SCR_WIDTH to 960, SCR_HEIGHT to 540, and COLOUR_BITS to 32
5. Same dir, open ddraw.ini (sfall's configuration ini), under [Graphics] set Mode & GraphicsWidth/Height to 0

Now you will play the game in native widescreen (!!!) 960x540, perfectly scaled to your 1920x1080 screen. There's a lot more fun stuff in those files if you want to customize the game. The Fallout 1 community has really treated your baby well.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about my experience with working on games with shorter development times and smaller budgets than usual.

 

[Roguey]

Tim approves of narrative RPGs (if you don't have the budget to include a combat system).

 

[Pyrite Pachyderm]

I talk about my experience with working on games with shorter development times and smaller budgets than usual.

Work harder on your double peace sign ahegao, Tim.

 

[NecroLord]

I talk about my experience with working on games with shorter development times and smaller budgets than usual.

Work harder on your double peace sign ahegao, Tim.

 

[StrongBelwas]

Cain loves mods, won't review them. Has been using mods since Quake, and most recently used them playing Fallout 4.
Encourages making mods as a way to get into the industry.
Hired someone on Outer Worlds based on a mod they made for Skyrim
Some houserules when he played AD&D
Used the 4d6 generation method
Removed restriction on female character strength
If you got more than 1 sub 6 attribute, you can reroll the whole character.
Threw out grappling rules, too complicated.
Ignored weapons vs base armor type to hit chance modification chart. Too difficult to determine base armor type of non humanoid enemies.
Some of Cain's house rules may be based on stuff from Dragon magazine he read and can't remember the source from.
Cain added a character generation rule where you rolled percentile dice (Chart at 5:40.) Get under 95, nothing. 96-99, rolled once on a special chart that gave disadvantages or advantages . Roll 00, double twice. Roll under 40, get something bad, roll over 75, get a benefit. This was all before he saw GURP's advantage/disadvantage system. People did not care much for rolling disadvantages, a friend of Cain managed to get hit with blindness and hemophilia on the same character. He wanted to reroll, Cain refused, the friend got the character killed off in the first fight.
Another modification was during character generation, you had to pick a god. For Clerics, every deity granted an ability/restriction to their clerics (This was far before Cain ever saw D&D 3e's domains.) For Astorte, you got one undetectable lie and one phantasmal force each day, but you had a chance of becoming a pathological liar every level up. He has most of the list on the screen at 10:10 so I won't elaborate further.
Cain experimented with economy measures (Chart at 11:10), might have gotten it from a magazine. Required players to pay taxs and duties for items brought into the cities, non citizens of each country had to pay more. Levies on anything you sold, head tax on anyone who entered the town, religious tithes and requirements to attend church. Gem and Jewels had a very high sales tax, guilds also had membership fees. Eventually dropped because it was simply too much busywork to bother with doing by hand.
Last big change was falling damage (Chart at 13:20), thought the standard rules were too generic, decided to have them roll a percentile dice on each fall, might take more damage, might take less damage, could get broken bones or sprains. Also eventually dropped for being an unfun form of realism.

 

[0sacred]

Cain experimented with economy measures, might have gotten it from a magazine. Required players to pay taxs and duties for items brought into the cities, non citizens of each country had to pay more. Levies on anything you sold, head tax on anyone who entered the town, religious tithes and requirements to attend church. Gem and Jewels had a very high sales tax, guilds also had membership fees.

 

[Alienman]

Removed restriction on women strength

 

[NecroLord]

Removed restriction on women strength

-4 Str, right?
Arcanum has -1 Strength, but +1 Endurance for women, I think...

 

[Roguey]

We got rid of the weird restriction that women couldn't have higher than an 18/50. That was explained to me by my graduate student group that it was a dumb rule and we got rid of it.

If the rule gets in the way of your ideal power fantasy then ignore it, but the strength differences between women and men are real.

 

[StrongBelwas]

Focusing on the last 15 months of Troika, end of 2003 to start of 2005.
After Arcanum shipped, split into Bloodlines and ToEE teams as is known. Temple was a small group of Arcanum people, most Arcanum people moved to Bloodlines. Steve Morray (Programmer), Mike McCarthy (Artist on Arcanum lead artist on ToEE) are two people who stuck with ToEE. ToEE was otherwise mostly new hires.
Tim Cain spent half his day doing HR stuff after ToEE shipped and he moved onto Bloodlines, minimal design or interaction with publisher, didn't want to get involved in arguments. Tried to coordinate programming team and programmed AI for some boss fights.
Self-Confidence feeling very low, kept thinking back to Fallout, wondering why it went so much more smoothly than how Troika worked out.
Fallout was made in the context of a bigger company, so when they needed help at the end they had more sources to call upon.
Was the final say on Fallout, but having a higher entity in the company who could step in and demand something be done because too much money or time had been spent already could help a lot. No such thing with Troika.
"Sometimes Democracy doesn't lead to the best decisions."
Tim Cain was the first to suggest shutting down when they struggled to get a new contract, Cain isn't sure Anderson and Leonard agreed with it so much as they were simply tired along with Cain and everyone else.
Troika was an experiment in many things, most of those failed.
Discussed with Leonard many years later on what he felt went wrong, Leonard felt Cain got too passionate about things, useful when dealing with publishers or journos, not so helpful when he squashes other team member's ideas and it was hard for other people to get their ideas in.
Particularly true for Arcanum apparently because of it's flat hierarchy, had a lot of new hires that felt like they had ownership of Arcanum. This wasn't the case for Fallout because by the time the group expanded there had already been a small core group who established things.
Talked with a programmer from Carbine who had been there longer than him (And was partially responsible for him being hired as their boss, Cain asked why they weren't in charge, the programmer apparently explained but Cain does not elaborate.) The programmer said even though he approved hiring Cain, he felt threatened by him. Well known in the industry, made Fallout (Apparently this programmer was involved with World of Warcraft though), made his own engines. Felt like a small part of a big game, Cain felt like a big part of a big game. Programmer said Cain made a lot of people at Carbine feel defensive, like they had to prove themselves against him. There was worry that Cain would get all the glory for the game despite Cain's efforts to distribute credit.
Cain really liked working with people much smarter than him at Troika. A sense of relief when you can turn something over to someone else knowing it would be handled very well.
Felt like Fallout benefited from having one arbiter who decided what went in and what didn't.
Troika taught Cain he was a poor businessman, told Feargus multiple times at Obsidian he was a much better businessman than Cain. Observed how Obsidian worked and saw many things Feargus did better than him.
Glad he tried the Troika experiments, even if many of them didn't work, so he wouldn't be wondering now how they could worked have out.
Feels weird when he gets feedback from people who never ran their own company on what he should have done at Troika, knows Feargus probably gets the same issue.
When you do something poorly, or ok but not well, don't discount it when people try to tell you.