CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[Trithne]

Why're you so mad about the level scaling? It isn't like Oblivion where gangoons start sporting endgame gear. In fact, circa level 20 I'm wiping the floor with regular gangers just like you'd expect to, due to better options and having like 200 armour.

The level scaling basically just normalises things so that you can approach the quests in any order, and guns always stay appropriately dangerous. It's a legit improvement from the old "red skull" system where an enemy would arbitrarily take only 10% damage from you because they were a higher level.

It makes it that power comes from gear and cyber and stats and perks, not from increasing a magic experience number. Calling it level scaling is a bit of a misnomer, if this is level scaling then Deus Ex was level scaled.

I'm most certainly not "mad" about it. It simply puts a damper on the experience for me. I appreciated that despite the "red skull" approach not being optimal, it was still preferable to enemies scaling with my level. Those enemies were still surmountable, and in a reasonable way. Even if there is a sustained sense of challenge throughout due to level-scaling being added in, it still robs me of a true sense of character progression. Something that I really enjoy in an RPG. If you're fine with that, more power to you. I am not and I'll just have to wait for a mod to somewhat fix it down the road.

And I really can't agree that it's comparable to Deus Ex. I shouldn't have to point it out, but their structures are completely different, and the progression made sense in terms of Deus Ex's structure. This is an open world, and while it might be much more difficult to balance something like that, I don't think that level-scaling is ever the appropriate solution. If you can't tune your enemies and encounters properly in an open world, don't make an open world.

And I can appreciate that. I feel like what they did wasn't so much to level scale the game as to flatten the power curve and make things other than raw level more meaningful. I'll just say that I do feel that progression you mention, as I get more gear and perks and enemies that previously would've given me trouble become easier, and the skull guys have gone from fucking nightmares to something I can fight on even footing.

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Why're you so mad about the level scaling? It isn't like Oblivion where gangoons start sporting endgame gear. In fact, circa level 20 I'm wiping the floor with regular gangers just like you'd expect to, due to better options and having like 200 armour.
Nd wh
The level scaling basically just normalises things so that you can approach the quests in any order, and guns always stay appropriately dangerous. It's a legit improvement from the old "red skull" system where an enemy would arbitrarily take only 10% damage from you because they were a higher level.

It makes it that power comes from gear and cyber and stats and perks, not from increasing a magic experience number. Calling it level scaling is a bit of a misnomer, if this is level scaling then Deus Ex was level scaled.

What kind of build do you have? I'm trying to use assault rifles for mine on Very Hard and I find red skull enemies to have too much health, or the assault rifle does too little damage per bullet. I regularly need to empty one clip into an enemy. And when you add that they use healing and grenades, in a combat featuring more than two red skull enemies you could finish all your assault rifle ammo (~800 rounds if you are stocked up fully) in one fight like Panam's first Raffen Shiv fight on Very Hard. Maybe the game was rebalanced more for higher-hitting single shot weapons and for melee.

But yeah, whoever is bitching about level scaling doesn't know what they're talking about. The game is harder now and harder in a good way. Enemies using healing and grenades pushes you to be active and move around. I can't yet talk much about updated tactics.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Inspiring:

Cyber Engine Tweaks, one of the authors.

 

[Trithne]

Why're you so mad about the level scaling? It isn't like Oblivion where gangoons start sporting endgame gear. In fact, circa level 20 I'm wiping the floor with regular gangers just like you'd expect to, due to better options and having like 200 armour.
Nd wh
The level scaling basically just normalises things so that you can approach the quests in any order, and guns always stay appropriately dangerous. It's a legit improvement from the old "red skull" system where an enemy would arbitrarily take only 10% damage from you because they were a higher level.

It makes it that power comes from gear and cyber and stats and perks, not from increasing a magic experience number. Calling it level scaling is a bit of a misnomer, if this is level scaling then Deus Ex was level scaled.

What kind of build do you have? I'm trying to use assault rifles for mine on Very Hard and I find red skull enemies to have too much health, or the assault rifle does too little damage per bullet. I regularly need to empty one clip into an enemy. And when you add that they use healing and grenades, in a combat featuring more than two red skull enemies you could finish all your assault rifle ammo (~800 rounds if you are stocked up fully) in one fight like Panam's first Raffen Shiv fight on Very Hard. Maybe the game was rebalanced more for higher-hitting single shot weapons and for melee.

But yeah, whoever is bitching about level scaling doesn't know what they're talking about. The game is harder now and harder in a good way. Enemies using healing and grenades pushes you to be active and move around. I can't yet talk much about updated tactics.

I'm only playing on Hard, so V Hard might be different but I think theory is the same.

https://www.cyberpunk.net/build-pla...000003&r=&i=&t=101020010211000310001301&c=&e=

Build is somewhere around this. Using a Sandy, double barrel, and the hand cyber that adds an electrical blast to your next attack after reloading an empty weapon, which is basically every shot with a double barrel or a carnage, as the carnage can fire after loading the first shell.

Got around 250 armour from cyberware.

Dealing with multiple skulls - I'll basically pick one and just bum rush them, launch missiles to soften them up then Sandy and unload both barrels into them, that usually deals with one.

Also if I can find a spot to camp I got the "Stalker" variant eyes which highlight enemies behind cover, and I've got a tech revolver and the widow maker for that.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm 15 reflexes, 12 cool, 4 body and the tech/int at 3. From Body I've only picked the first major perk that gives health regen in combat. The rest I've spent on assault rifles, a little on sneaking. I don't have any of the major cyberware though, using quickhacks here and there, usually overheat. Also my armor is much lower than yours.

So great, build variety exists on higher difficulties. I don't remember that being a topic before.

 

[General Disarray]

Having fucked around a bit with 2.0 I have to ask: Why are people excited for this again? You can just watch a story summary of the DLC on Youtube and get the exact same experience as playing it, sans the tediousness.

Usually they don't upload in HDR and YouTube sends only stero not Dolby Atmos. So you can't get the same cinematic experience as playing with a good home theater system, which is how this movie game should be enjoyed.

 

[Vic]

YouTube sends only stero not Dolby Atmos

youtube uses opus which supports 5.1 surround sound

 

[Trithne]

I'm 15 reflexes, 12 cool, 4 body and the tech/int at 3. From Body I've only picked the first major perk that gives health regen in combat. The rest I've spent on assault rifles, a little on sneaking. I don't have any of the major cyberware though, using quickhacks here and there, usually overheat. Also my armor is much lower than yours.

So great, build variety exists on higher difficulties. I don't remember that being a topic before.

For what it's worth I ran very low on ammo in the raffen shiv fight too, setpiece encounters like that are definitely made to be tough.

But yes, they seem to have made build variety more than just what gun do you feel like using today. There's actual synergies and combinations you can exploit.

 

[lukaszek]

looks like throwing bladed weapons(knives/axes) do not benefit from melee improvements in reflex tree

 

[Vyvian]

I tried Phantom Liberty on a boosted character to see how they set you up. New PL characters start at level 15 with most points in Reflexes, Intelligence and Tech.
It was interesting to say the least, might have to turn down NPC density a bit in Dogtown but it wasn't terrible.
The first bits of PL combat were intense and actually drained the ammo I began with in nearly every gun. That's literally never happened to me before and it was actually refreshing because I had to actually think about the battles a bit.
I stopped partway through the beginning though since I only wanted a taste and to test my potato's performance in Dogtown.

 

[Vic]

game crashed pre-DLC every 10 minutes or so, now with the DLC it crashes before I even get to the title screen. polish quality

 

[Perkel]

looks like CDPR removed ray reconstruction in PL. I noticed it was causing faces look bad compared to non RR as subsurface scattering didn't seem to work.

EDIT: nah it is there just under dlss instead of ray tracing.

 

[moon knight]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

 

[Takamori]

Is this game worth playing? if i didnt like Witcher 3?

Ok what aspects of W3 you hated?

I am not sure if I'm correct it was a while when i played w3 but i think i attacked a monster that was much higher level than me and i could easily dodge all of it attacks but i didnt do almost any DMG because he had higher level than me and that was retarded for me that i could run around for 10 minutes break a sword and during this time i barely chipped his hp so i had to go back do something else and level up dunno if that how this worked it broke my immersion I'm already pro Witcher in third game but i need to meta game i kill some bozos before i can approach higher level enemy.

Oh CP2077 doesn't have that. The 2.0 basically just added level scaling to the game, I think the only enemies that might feel a bit retarded are the cyberpsycho if you decide to rush their mission with starter gear but once you get your build rolling you can have fun with them.

 

[Trithne]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

 

[sebas]

You guys can replay this without sexy mods?

 

[Vic]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

just admit it's shit

 

[Trithne]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

just admit it's shit

Only if you admit the same about Starfield first.

 

[Rhobar121]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

just admit it's shit

Only if you admit the same about Starfield first.

He would rather commit suicide out of despair than do that.
Looks like Vic wants Todd to fuck him in the ass, that's the only reasonable explanation.

 

[Vic]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

just admit it's shit

Only if you admit the same about Starfield first.

I've admitted plenty of things that are shit about starfield, but come on, arguing for level scaling? Level scaling is a band-aid for shitty progression

 

[Trithne]

leveling scaling is a legit improvement you heard him guys

Than the Red Skull system? Fuck yes it is. The Red Skull system was "level = power" at its worst and basically like an mmo. If you hadn't reached the magical level number, you did no damage to them, but if you did, and came back with the exact same build, they lost that buff. Fuck that.

I disagree. With level scaling your gonk level 1 V, that gets fucked over by Dex, can go around killing Arasaka and Militech soldiers. It's nonsense, where is the progression? Also, why then everyone is on par with level 50 V, Night City legend, Adam Smasher's smasher?

They aren't. On an individual level, the only enemies that pose any threat me at just level 23 are dudes with considerable amounts of cyberware. Which is appropriate. Conversely, when you're weak and have shit all gear and ware, the guys with sandevistans and shiploads of armour are tough to kill because of it.

This isn't a setting where you get to just smash on someone because you had a fee levels of personal growth. It's a setting of cybernetics and guns. Get unlucky and any gonk with a revolver can end you, unless you've got the tech to counter it. There is lots of character growth potential in the game, it's just not tied to your level. It's in your gear and your ware. And perks. And getting tangible, active advantages from those is more interesting to me as a form of character growth than the number getting bigger.

just admit it's shit

Only if you admit the same about Starfield first.

I've admitted plenty of things that are shit about starfield, but come on, arguing for level scaling? Level scaling is a band-aid for shitty progression

Level scaling is lots of things. What I'm arguing is that level scaling doesn't automatically mean some sort of never getting a sense of character progression or improvement, unless your combat system consists entirely of shooting at bullet sponges while getting shot back and whoever runs out of health first loses, which sounds a lot like a certain recent game now I think about it.

My argument is that instead of hearing "level scaling" and immediately throwing the baby overboard, look at the whole design - enemies are "scaled" to your level because the world design benefits from keeping everyone at a certain level of relative lethality.

Like someone said, level scaling doesn't mean a dragon is the same as you and a goblin, it means the dragon is always stronger than you. A good progression model is inherently "level scaled", because good progression models don't have levels.

 

[Moink]

Dogtown market guts my performance, down from ~80 to 45-50 at times. The Asian girl seems like a mary sue, she started hacking at 13, can do anything, tells Johnny to shut up etc which isn't giving me a good feeling about the rest of the writing. I've noticed a bunch of skill prompts but they are all 3 so any character can do them, feels like bait for journos to write about how there's skill checks everywhere.

You guys can replay this without sexy mods?

New clothing options are either slutty or combat armour, guess they had a glance at the nexus front page, shame there's still no way to get proper visual cyberware.

 

[Grauken]

Like someone said, level scaling doesn't mean a dragon is the same as you and a goblin, it means the dragon is always stronger than you. A good progression model is inherently "level scaled", because good progression models don't have levels.

Everything you say is wrong

 

[lukaszek]

i have a suspicion that door checks are scaled. Everything is now at 20 for me

 

[Moink]

i have a suspicion that door checks are scaled. Everything is now at 20 for me

Could be, I saw a 3 int check (I have 3 int) and a 3 body check (I have 4), while the 2 Cool options I've seen were 20 (I have 20 Cool).