Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Fowyr]

The switch to 3E was necessary. If it wasn't for that, IWD2 would've been severely outdated on release.

Outdated? First, 2nd edition was superior, and second, why it was important? Goldboxes used first edition even in 90s, when 2nd edition was available since 1989.

 

[Cael]

Everytime someone talks about KOTOR, my first reaction is "why are they talking about dirt?"

I put a 2 in the name, not sure if that translates to dirt. Maybe I'll just call it Sith Lords then to avoid the mistranslate to dirt.

Kotor = "dirty". Kotor2 is shorthand for kotor-kotor which can be taken to mean "very dirty" :D

Malay is an interesting language

 

[Latelistener]

If they didn't own Fallout I sincerely doubt he'd be sucking Pete's dick but because they've got his baby hostage he tows the line.

It's not his. It's a product of threesome between Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson. When fathers left, Mr. Avellone helped to raise the child and it became obsessed with jokes and pop-cultural references, which ruined the aesthetics. Sadly, not the brightest moment for Mr. Avellone.

Several years later Fallout became a depressed pop diva that looks happy in public, but getting constantly raped and abused by the new step-father Howard, who occasionally invites his friend Pete to join the process. All of this is usually filmed by the jews from Zenithesda, which sell these movies to their perverted audience.

Somewhere between all of this Josh came along and showed what could have been, but Howard and his cronies quickly severed the connection. Josh suffered multiple injuries after they sabotaged his bike and Fallout decided to stay away from him to keep him safe.

 

[Nutria]

I spent too much time playing Falcon 4 so when I see Kotor I think of the town in Montenegro.

 

[Nano]

The switch to 3E was necessary. If it wasn't for that, IWD2 would've been severely outdated on release.

Outdated? First, 2nd edition was superior, and second, why it was important? Goldboxes used first edition even in 90s, when 2nd edition was available since 1989.

Reviewers and players alike already criticized IWD2 for being stale. The reaction would've been worse if they stuck with 2E.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

The switch to 3E was necessary. If it wasn't for that, IWD2 would've been severely outdated on release.

Outdated? First, 2nd edition was superior, and second, why it was important? Goldboxes used first edition even in 90s, when 2nd edition was available since 1989.

Reviewers and players alike already criticized IWD2 for being stale. The reaction would've been worse if they stuck with 2E.

I would bet something that the edition has nothing to do with the game being stale. It has to do with *content* being stale. If you played IWD2, and if you are not a rank 1 autist, the overall design is simply rinsed repeat trash mobs. Can't get staler than that.

 

[Roguey]

The switch to 3E was necessary. If it wasn't for that, IWD2 would've been severely outdated on release.

Interplay is the one that should be blamed for those ridiculous deadlines.

The original plan (when they were expected to turn it out in 5 months) was to do 2e with kits. Then Josh insisted that they needed to do 3e. It was scope creep on a project that probably didn't need it. IWD2 had the lowest sales of all the IE games regardless (though it still had a high return on investment given what it cost to make), and I doubt the rules made much of a difference.

Sega didn't allow them to work on it after release. Avellone can probably confirm this, but didn't they cease working on it months before release and Sega just sat on the game, thus allowing Mass Effect 2 to launch before AP. Instead of AP being compared to Mass Effect, it was compared to ME2 and media killed the game in NA. European media liked the game.

Sega "didn't allow" them because they were unwilling to throw good money after bad. Nothing was going to make AP not-a-bomb and I'm sure they realized this in 2009, when they delayed it because they didn't want it to get completely lost in the shuffle of the 09 holiday season (only to instead get harmed further).

 

[J_C]

My impression is that Chris doesn't call people out unless they've fucked him over (the owners) or tried to call him out first (Fenstermaker). That's not the case with Sawyer:

I don’t have any issues with Josh, he’s not part of the upper management I mention here (he wasn’t even Design Director until a while after I left, I believe), and I think he’s a good Project Director.

I don't get that. How can he be a "good project director" when two projects he's directed were "shameful"?

All of Josh's games turned out to be decent to good to great RPGs, so what is actually shameful about them?

 

[Fairfax]

IWD2 had the lowest sales of all the IE games regardless

And the worst reviews.

 

[pomenitul]

It may well be my favourite IE game in retrospect.

 

[Bocian]

So, when do we change the name of this thread to "Depreciation Station"?

 

[Roguey]

And the worst reviews.

If we're counting expansions, that would be Heart of Winter.

 

[Nano]

Then Josh insisted that they needed to do 3e. It was scope creep on a project that probably didn't need it. IWD2 had the lowest sales of all the IE games regardless (though it still had a high return on investment given what it cost to make), and I doubt the rules made much of a difference.

Whatever. I'm just glad that there was something about IWD2 that made it stand out from the other IE games. Developers blaming each other over these things is classic misdirection bullshit.

 

[Roguey]

Whatever. I'm just glad that there was something about IWD2 that made it stand out from the other IE games. Developers blaming each other over these things is classic misdirection bullshit.

The kits were unique compared to even BG2 (which had some trash kits, something the balance-man wouldn't abide) https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/icewind-dale-ii-tentative-kits-list.70048/

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

None of the problems during IWD/IWD2 production should be blamed on anybody at Black Isle. Everything they've ever made was commercially and critically successful, and Beamdog is still leeching off that legacy to this very day. It was Interplay's job to run a tight navy instead of relying on the flagship to carry a fleet of wrecks.

 

[Roguey]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

 

[ga♥]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

The distinction between Bioware and Black Isle at the time was very...vague I would say.
They shared the same headquarters, basicaly worked together, shared opinions and etc.

 

[ga♥]

None of the problems during IWD/IWD2 production should be blamed on anybody at Black Isle. Everything they've ever made was commercially and critically successful, and Beamdog is still leeching off that legacy to this very day. It was Interplay's job to run a tight navy instead of relying on the flagship to carry a fleet of wrecks.

You have to replace Blackisle there with Bioware. The only game that Beamdoggy is licking off Black isle is IWD which is actually a Bioware derivative. And a bad one at that compared to BG1/2. This is from a guy who thinks IE games are overrated.

What is PS:T.

 

[Roguey]

The distinction between Bioware and Black Isle at the time was very...vague I would say.
They shared the same headquarters, basicaly worked together, shared opinions and etc.

Bioware was all the way up in Alberta Canada whereas Black Isle was in Southern California.

 

[ga♥]

The distinction between Bioware and Black Isle at the time was very...vague I would say.
They shared the same headquarters, basicaly worked together, shared opinions and etc.

Bioware was all the way up in Alberta Canada whereas Black Isle was in Southern California.

Huh, yeah you are right. Actually someone should ask Feargus or any Black Isle veteran what was their relationship with Bioware at the time.
They surely didn't seem complete separate entities, despite studio locations.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

The only game that Beamdoggy is licking off Black isle is IWD which is actually a Bioware derivative.

Imagine being so caught up in a crusade to bitch about Feargus, that you manage to forget that Planescape Torment exists while posting in Chris Avellone Appreciation Station.

 

[J_C]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

You mean, Bioware got lucky with Interplay/Black Isle (and Feargus). Bioware had a great engine, but they had no track record, and knew nothing about RPGs. I doubt they would be anywhere without the support of a company which excelled in RPGs (among other things), and had the connection to TSR.

Also, you can't know about alternate timelines, maybe without Bioware they would have made other great RPGs, especially after they got the D&D license. They had to make games with it, so they probably would have made other D&D RPGs with that.

 

[Roguey]

Imagine being so caught up in a crusade to bitch about Feargus, that you manage to forget that Planescape Torment exists while posting in Chris Avellone Appreciation Station.

Not at all. However, Planescape: Torment wouldn't exist if not for Bioware's Infinity Engine, and Chris said as much back in May.

 

[Flou]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

In some ways yes. Then again how lucky were BioWare to be working with Black Isle and got the D&D license to work with? How much influence did the producers at BIS have on BioWare and their first few games?

BioWare the makers of Shattered Steel, MDK2 and some other non crpg games? Don't think they would have struck gold either without Black Isle.

 

[Fairfax]

Feargus got extremely lucky with Bioware. If not for them, Black Isle's output would consist of Fallout, a Fallout slamdunk, Lionheart, and a bunch of canceled games.

FO1 is pre-BIS, so not even that.

They surely didn't seem complete separate entities, despite studio locations.

That was on purpose. Interplay/BIS wanted people to associate them with BG and BioWare as much as possible. Boxes, ads, and trailers for all the other IE games had the BioWare logo, and most mentioned BG. Even IWD2, which came out 2 years after BioWare severed ties with Interplay: