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Lurker King

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As much as Fargo may ultimately be responsible by virtue of being CEO and being the one that put all of this together.

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LOL LOL LOL, you faggots never learn. Let me repeat this for the thousandth time. There is no CEO role in a medium game studio. None. You have a manager, who also happens to be a designer that is involved in everything. You guys talk about Fargo as a CEO because he is a millionaire who still act as and think like a publisher. When the person who is in charge behaves like a CEO, he is transferring his responsibility to a third party. You did this with a team that has Tim Cain or Chris Avellone in their prime; you deliver a classic and take the credit for yourself. You do this with burnout mediocre developers that are obsessed by activism; you get a shitty game, and take the heat, or at least that is what would happen if players were rational, instead of being picky in blaming people. Either he doesn't give a shit, or he is supporting these cucks 100%. In either case, he must fall on the sword.
 
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Goral

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It sold poorly. This figure is exaggerated.
lol
What does this quote have to do with what I said? WTF? Why the fuck are you quoting Vault Dweller who doesn't know these numbers and only speculates?

And it's not exaggerated, we just don't know though how much time they needed to reach 400k and how much the game cost (which should be asked Fargo BTW).
 
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Lurker King

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So yeah, you people kinda suck at this interviewing business.

That's because we know you'never get any worthwhile answers. Inxile isn't interested in giving honest answers, it's just pandering so that next time sites like this won't rip their game to shreds and cause lost sales.

Infinitron trying to push his shilling agenda, as usual. How many fuck ups, bad games and betrayls codexers have to endure before they realize these developers don't take them seriously? They want your money, not your opinions.
 
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Lurker King

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It sold poorly. This figure is exaggerated.
lol
What does this quote has to do with what I said? WTF? Why the fuck are you quoting Vault Dweller who doesn't know these numbers and only speculates?

And it's not exaggerated, we don't know though how much time they needed to reach 400k.

Fact 1: Avellone said that the game wasn't a hit:

RPGWatch: Planescape: Torment was never developed to be a huge hit. How much involvement or interference was there from the suits of the company?
Chris Avellone: As far as being a huge hit, I think everyone wanted Torment to sell very well (it made a profit, but not a huge one, and certainly not anywhere near Baldur's Gate numbers).

Fact 2: It figures in a Gamespy list of one of the most underrated games of all time "because of poor sales".

Fact 3: The leading PC data source at the time suggested that it sold poorly.

Fact 4: By 2002, Torment and Soulbringer were being bundled and sold together for $10, which would never happen if the game was a hit.

And by the way, Goral, all these data points were suggested by MRY, not Vault Dweller. But go ahead, ignore all the data as pointless speculation of simple mortals, and suck the dick ask Brian Fargo, the awesome obscure celebrity in gaming circules, what the actual number is. Since he is such a transparent and humble person, I'm sure that he is more trustworthy than real data selected by simple mortals.
 

MRY

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Asking Brian is a great idea. My sleuthery is not exactly scientific, and I think Brian would be candid. For one thing, contrary to you guys, I think he's basically a straight shooter, especially when there's no marketing involved. But aside from that, there are probably incentives in both directions: deflating the sales helps equate TTON's slow burn with PST's, inflating the sales increases Interplay's legacy, so these probably cancel each other out.

To be honest, I think it would be extraordinarily valuable to find out more raw data like: (1) how much did it cost to make; (2) how big was actual production team; (3) how long was the actual production period; (4) how many copies did it sell in such-and-such timeframes; and (5) how much did it make in revenue? I don't know if Brian would want to share all of that information, but I think it would be nice to disabuse (or prove!) the notion that the IE games were cheap to make and leanly staffed compared to the Kickstarter IE imitators. My tentative guess, based on nothing but my own bad instincts, is that PS:T probably cost more than TTON to make, but I could be totally wrong.
 

Roguey

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Fact 1: Avellone said that the game wasn't a hit:

It did better than he expected though. :M

http://www.starwarsknights.com/interview20090223.php
After probably getting sick to death of my hangdog expression, mounting depression, and the packs of razor blades I would go through lightly dragging each razor across my wrist, Feargus Urquhart decided to break me out of my funk and let me know Torment made a profit, just not nearly as much as Baldur's Gate (the first part was a surprise, the second part wasn’t – Baldur’s Gate sold a lot of units, it’d be hard to top).
 

Wayward Son

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Personally, I feel, having not played it, that TTON may have been better received if it had not been marketed as a Torment sequel. So, does Mr. Fargo regret using the Torment name for the game in light of its reception amongst those who wanted a successor to PST?
 

Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Would the game even be funded if it were not a Torment sucessor?
Funded, maybe. Never to the tune of >4 million though. Maybe 250k. I personally spend only small amounts on Kickstarter, and made a big exception for Numenera, which was a terrible mistake.
 

MRY

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The only thing that could disappoint the Codex more than TTON is if this interview goes the way of the Uwe Boll boxing match (which remains to me the high water mark of Boll's incredible effort to personally thwart the ruin of video games by preventing their merger with movies).
 

ShadowSpectre

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So what I get from this is that Tides of Numenera sold a 1/4 fraction of the copies of PST so far, console numbers unknown. Really not feeling this NuTorment "finding an audience" in the future because there is much more out there than there was back then. It'll get put into the heaping pile of every other failed game promise out there underneath the ones that were better.
 

Luckmann

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Personally, I feel, having not played it, that TTON may have been better received if it had not been marketed as a Torment sequel. So, does Mr. Fargo regret using the Torment name for the game in light of its reception amongst those who wanted a successor to PST?
I hear this a lot, and there is a little bit of a truth to it - the game would not be judged as harshly if it did not have "Torment" tacked onto it. The bile and justified anger would not have been as pronounced.

But make no mistake, the game is awful in it's own right. It needs a major overhaul, not just mechanically, but in terms of narrative and content as well, as well as additional content equal to a full expansion.

But that's never going to happen.

And none of that has anything to do with it having Torment in the title.
 
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Irenaeus

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Eh. These questions are just going to be met with PR speak. I mean, we could pretty much write the interview now:

Q: Why were the stretch goals cut, and why did you keep them hidden?
A: We were focusing on making the best RPG we could and in implementing all of the goals. In the end, though, we realized that some of the content wasn't up to the quality we demand for our customers, and we decided we'd rather make sure that everything in the game was top quality stuff. Some of the things we held off on because they deserved more time, which is why you're going to see the toy implemented post launch.

We didn't formally announce the cut because we were still holding out hope that we really wanted to include these things in the initial release and didn't want to close the door on them until we were absolutely sure we couldn't find some way to get them in. Of course we should have announced this earlier than we did, but we were in a crazy crunch time pushing for the release and days can fly by when that happens.

Etc. etc. If you really want information you'd probably have to go full Columbo and ask them seemingly innocuous questions about small details, which can then be strung together to get a better narrative of what happened. Of course, announcing those kinds of questions here would be counterproductive, since it doesn't work if they're expecting it.

You were right all along, the interview was pure PR speak. Except for McCuck.
 

Azarkon

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To be honest, I don't even know why the production questions were that important. Could've just been summarized as: they fucked up. Not the first time development studios have fucked up. In fact it seems to be the normal state of affairs when you hear developers talk about it given how common delays are in this industry. I thought the more important issue was why the game's story and characters were mediocre; but hearing Colin McComb's answers you'd think they were no worse than Planescape: Torment's, so I guess no lesson learned there?
 

Rev

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McComb's answers lol, in his mind we're all bad guys who are too stupid to understand his genius. :lol:

Rest of the interview is pointless, just as expected. Lot of PR talk and trying to dodge the hardest questions or shifting the blame toward others (Saunders and even the backers/consumers in some answers). I still won't back any of their next projects, and their pathetic attempt at excuses will not change my mind. Maybe I could if they would finally stop making bad games, however.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I thought the more important issue was why the game's story and characters were mediocre; but hearing Colin McComb's answers you'd think they were no worse than Planescape: Torment's, so I guess no lesson learned there?

They're not gonna admit the writing was mediocre. They are trying to sell a product, and this product stands or, as the case may be, falls, on its writing. Production you can talk about. Maybe in five years if anyone still cares they'll be able to admit that yeah it did turn out kind of shit.
 

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