Game News Deathfire: Ruins of Nethermore Kickstarter is Live

[CyberWhale]

Why? Great deal (actually, the larger part of it) of human art is the way it is precisely because of that reason alone.
What, you think those Cro-Magnon and/or Neanderthal fucks would bother with cave paintings if you went back in time, gave them a digital camera and showed them how to use it?

A lot of good things have been born from technical limitations. Just because we don't have them anymore it doesn't mean that they have no place in present time or the future.
That's a stupid appeal to novelty and everyone (including the developers of those old gems) who dares to bring it up should be regarded as a stupid fuck.

 

[Rake]

Why? Great deal (actually, the larger part of it) of human art is the way it is precisely because of that reason alone.
What, you think those Cro-Magnon and/or Neanderthal fucks would bother with cave paintings if you went back in time, gave them a digital camera and showed them how to use it?

A lot of good things have been born from technical limitations. Just because we don't have them anymore it doesn't mean that they have no place in present time or the future.
That's a stupid appeal to novelty and everyone (including the developers of those old gems) who dares to bring it up should be regarded as a stupid fuck.

Because it will mean that they won't make that kind of games again even if they have the chance.

 

[CyberWhale]

They will if there are customers willing to pay DORRARUS for it. Kickstarter and those publisher funded indie projects proved it.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm beginning to suspect that Bradley has alsways been a dumbfuck, and the stroke of brilliance he had with Wiz7 and W&W was more of a happenstance.

People place too much faith in designers as lone genius. The Bradley (or Henkel) of today are not the same as those of 25-30 years ago, and even those were accompanied by a other people. Guido was executive producer for Arkania, but Brändle was the project director, and the game was only good because one helped and censored the other.

 

[cherry blossom]

To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time. -Leonard Bernstein

 

[:Flash:]

To be honest, between the manual for Wiz6 (and some of the game's aspects) that recently resurfaced on CRPGAddict's blog and this, I'm beginning to suspect that Bradley has alsways been a dumbfuck, and the stroke of brilliance he had with Wiz7 and W&W was more of a happenstance.

Bradley has been pretty explicit about Dungeon Lords being far superior to his previous boring turn-based games.

In Dungeon Lords, we have created an RPG that engages the player with the excitement and thrills of superior action elements without sacrificing the breadth and detail of a true RPG. It's the game I've always wanted to make, and it represents the culmination of everything I've learned designing both RPG and computer games for the past 25 years. [...]
And best of all, Dungeon Lords is a game totally devoid of the mindless and repetitious point-and-click or turn-based combat or fatiguing micromanagement that--to this day--continues to plague almost all other RPG games. [Source]

Also, Bradley identifying the worst design error in Dungeon Lords:
One of the most short-sighted RPG design flubs at the time, in Dungeon Lords and other games such as Oblivion, was having so many magic spells and only 8 hot-key slots for casting them - doh! The new action bar in DL MMXII supports 12 hot-key spells and actions[...] [Source]

 

[stony3k]

Compair him with Fargo.

Fargo was always a CEO and businessman. It's no wonder he knows how to market himself and his games. Guido is a developer/designer, so expecting him to behave like Fargo is unrealistic. Maybe he should have hired a PR person to sell the game for him, but that's likely where his ego came in. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to appreciate that KickStarter is not about the game as much as it is about the pitch.

I do find it ironic that the Codex that claims to hate marketing and sales and the business side of gaming is so mad at Guido for failing at the same business side.

I think most of the Codex is just frustrated as one potentially good Wizardry like blobber goes down the drain because of ineptitude at getting that damn money the way it works in the real world...

I get that. But if we on the Codex don't support these types of games, who will? For me, I agree that the pitch could be better and that Guido sucks at marketing, but let's pledge and then send him feedback so he can improve. If he doesn't and the pledge fails, then no harm done. But at least we'd have tried.

Larian's pitch for D:OS wasn't that great either, but they listened to the feedback and improved. Now I agree that Guido didn't listen at all during Thorvalla and that has turned a lot of people off. I'm just saying let's give him one more chance. I'd rather support him than a lot of other developers.

 

[skuphundaku]

It is frustrating, because I know of no decent sized Wizardry-like blobber which has succeeded on KS.

That's because blobbers are the armpit of gaming. Fuck them and good riddance.

 

[theSavant]

Hard to say if putting the RoA and PST resume front and center would have made a better pitch.

I doubt it too. I think we can officially declare the KS as dead. Initially I thought there may be a Kickstarter fatigue again, but then I saw this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction?ref=category which proves, there is still enough money around. I don't know how they got 850K already, as I'm not the Adventure type of player, and I don't see a special KS pitch either, but obviously they made something right, have more connections, more marketing, or a large fanbase whatsoever.

Compared to that Guido is kinda forgotten, no popularity etc. The same destiny happened to the Shaker Team. In fact when I re-consider Obsidians portfolio (though I don't like their behavior) it somehow explains why the others fail and they didn't. Because the others rested too much on their past, didn't grow a fanbase, instead focused on CRAP SOCIAL GAMES! And even somewhere in a blogpost http://nilbid.com/2012/01/13/d-w-bradley-still-in-the-game/ I read that DW. Bradley has also moved to the SOCIAL GAMES CRAP - which explains why we never heard of him again!
They made themselves "no-named" because of that! Obsidian/Black Isle however did grow a fanbase, even if they only made Addons for NWN over the years, they kept themselves in memory and constantly proved they can deliver. They stayed true to themselves and their roots.

So what can we expect now? He most likely don't want to make his previous work obsolete and might go for a publisher. But then - as someone already said - who wants to sponsor a game, if he sees the failed KS? Furthermore how likely is it, that one of these no-name developers they have become, will ever succeed in a KS which exceeds more than 100.000$ ? Very unlikely. To the common people such a one is just another unknown indie developer amongst the thousands of trying their luck.


You know what the unfortunate thing here is: it's highly unlikely that even in the future a decent blobber will come out from the ancient blobber creators, which also means that the team creating MMX or Grimrock might be the only ones left delivering decent blobbers in the future. As ridiculous as it sounds...

 

[Lady_Error]

I think we can officially declare the KS as dead.

Oh yeah? They've got 43.000 in less than three days - and the 390.000 is not as ambitious as the one you talk about:

Initially I thought there may be a Kickstarter fatigue again, but then I saw this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction?ref=category which proves, there is still enough money around. I don't know how they got 850K already

Yes, but they have not even reached their funding goal of 1,1 mil yet, with only 7 days to go. Be careful who you declare "dead" or "winners" on KS.

Compared to that Guido is kinda forgotten, no popularity etc.

And you base that observation on what? He's got a development diary in the German "PC Games" mag, which is the oldest and one of the most popular over there. And that's just one example of how he is forgotten. Of course, he has always been more popular in Germany, but I wouldn't call him forgotten in any case.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Operation "Cannot possibly fail a second time".

 

[theSavant]

Oh yeah? They've got 43.000 in less than three days - and the 390.000 is not as ambitious as the one you talk about:

Be honest to yourself.

Yes, but they have not even reached their funding goal of 1,1 mil yet, with only 7 days to go. Be careful who you declare "dead" or "winners" on KS.

I'm careful, but you can evaluate the tendencies. Despite the high amount already pledged, even they will not reach their goal, if they don't get a huge cash injection from a publisher.

And you base that observation on what? He's got a development diary in the German "PC Games" mag, which is the oldest and one of the most popular over there. And that's just one example of how he is forgotten. Of course, he has always been more popular in Germany, but I wouldn't call him forgotten in any case.

Exactly there I must pinpoint you. I am reading this PC Games every once in a while but there is almost a non-existing enthusiasm from german players. Even his own forum thread given to him from the magazine merely reaches 10 posts from the community. And then look at his own website: it totally lacks a community. If you look at the count of registered members ~380 you think "hey not bad for a start", but 350 of it are spam registrations and the forum itself is a desert.

 

[Infinitron]

Obduction is going to make its goal easily. Have you never seen the final days of a Kickstarter before?

 

[almondblight]

I do agree with V_K that "oversaturation of the blobber market" isn't the real reason for the failure of the Kickstarters for more complex Wizardry-like blobbers like Shaker or this.

It's mainly because the pitches aren't good enough, the visions aren't strong enough and the people involved aren't famous enough.

I don't think the reason for Shaker's failure is the same as the reason for Deathfire's. Shaker's big problem was that they gave no information about the game at first - hell, when they launched their Kickstarter they were only calling it "Old School RPG". Shaker got good media attention (lots of gaming sites covered it, and covered it as "Wizard and Anachronox developer's Kickstart RPG!") and made $115.5k their first day, but the complete lack of information at the beginning and general thrown together feeling killed them.

By contrast, Deathfire has a decent amount of information KS but there are many gaming sites that haven't covered it at all (few day 1 "PST and RoA Creator Kickstarts New RPG!" articles, especially at the bigger sites). Thorvalla was even worse, it didn't even get mentioned in RPS's Kickstarter catch up articles that would cover $2000 KS shovelware.

If Deathfire had the initial media push that Shaker had, it'd probably get funded, and if Shaker had shown off as much as Deathfire did at the start and had the same goal (and not $1 million), it would have gotten funded.

 

[theSavant]

Obduction is going to make its goal easily. Have you never seen the final days of a Kickstarter before?

Yes, I might be wrong here.

 

[V_K]

Compared to that Guido is kinda forgotten, no popularity etc. The same destiny happened to the Shaker Team. In fact when I re-consider Obsidians portfolio (though I don't like their behavior) it somehow explains why the others fail and they didn't. Because the others rested too much on their past, didn't grow a fanbase, instead focused on CRAP SOCIAL GAMES! And even somewhere in a blogpost http://nilbid.com/2012/01/13/d-w-bradley-still-in-the-game/ I read that DW. Bradley has also moved to the SOCIAL GAMES CRAP - which explains why we never heard of him again!
They made themselves "no-named" because of that! Obsidian/Black Isle however did grow a fanbase, even if they only made Addons for NWN over the years, they kept themselves in memory and constantly proved they can deliver. They stayed true to themselves and their roots.

Well, both SRR guys and inXile did mostly games for mobiles in the past years, but it didn't stop them.

So what can we expect now? He most likely don't want to make his previous work obsolete and might go for a publisher. But then - as someone already said - who wants to sponsor a game, if he sees the failed KS?

There's also early access way. Which, as I've said already, Henkel should probably have gone for in the first place.

 

[Infinitron]

There's also early access way. Which, as I've said already, Henkel should probably have gone for in the first place.

You can't put a pre-alpha tech demo on Early Access. He'd have to self-fund the game for at least another half year to reach that stage.

 

[V_K]

There's also early access way. Which, as I've said already, Henkel should probably have gone for in the first place.

You can't put a pre-alpha tech demo on Early Access. He'd have to self-fund the game for at least another half year to reach that stage.

I never said you can. But judging from the footage I don't think getting it into the required state would take that long.

 

[Gord]

Next dev should just hire Codex KS Consulting Inc. before doing his pitch.

As evidenced by this thread, we are full of professionals...

 

[Zombra]

Initially I thought there may be a Kickstarter fatigue again, but then I saw this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction?ref=category which proves, there is still enough money around. I don't know how they got 850K already, as I'm not the Adventure type of player, and I don't see a special KS pitch either, but obviously they made something right, have more connections, more marketing, or a large fanbase whatsoever.

"From the creators of Myst and Riven." That's all I needed to see to understand why they're doing so well. I'm sure they also paid attention to what makes a successful KS.

 

[Grunker]

Operation "Cannot possibly fail a second time".

Bingo.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

nobody is interested in this; that's the problem. Not imaginary KS fatigue or marketing or any other excuses. The game is just not interesting to most would be pledgers, simple as that.

 

[theSavant]

Mhm, must agree. The reason for fail is often the most obvious one. I can't blame people for not being interested in this either. Sorry, Guido.

 

[Davaris]

nobody is interested in this; that's the problem. Not imaginary KS fatigue or marketing or any other excuses. The game is just not interesting to most would be pledgers, simple as that.

Oh yes, it really is bad marketing.

I look at the Kickstarter page and video and all he does is list a bunch of features, while saying nothing about the fantasy players will experience in the game. Features might be interesting to him, because he worked on them, but they are certainly not interesting to players.

This guy explains it better than I can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669-A8zQwJ0

 

[warmonger3]

If it makes funding and development, you know you all will play it.