Game News Deathfire: Ruins of Nethermore Kickstarter is Live

[norolim]

Silly Germans

Credit cards are far less common in germany than in anglo-american countries. I got one only for buying games through digital distributors, otherwise I wouldn't need one. Not sure what's about the prepaid credit cards, it's something I know exists, but have never actually seen. Wouldn't be surprised if most germans aren't aware that you can buy them, since they are rather new here, afaik.

I don't understand that credit card problem. Haven't the Germans heard about virtual credit cards? I've been using one for almost a decade and never had any problems with online transactions requiring credit cards.

 

[stony3k]

Based on Kicktraq, Deathfire is the 6th most popular campaign, which means it's doing comparatively well. Of course, it looks like it'll only make 250K or so, unless he gets a big push from somewhere.

 

[Lady_Error]

They just got a push from Rock Paper Shotgun:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...ducer-proffers-deathfire-ruins-of-nethermore/

 

[Zombra]

Can't wait to see Guido's glorious butthurt when this one fails too.

I don't quite get those sentiments, is he really deserving of such an attitude?

Yeah I don't understand all the Guido hate either. People have an edginess quotient to fulfill I guess. I can understand critiquing the pitch / marketing, which indeed had some weaknesses (some have been fixed, like the $500 class), but actually reveling in his misfortune is bizarre. He's an independent cRPG developer making an old-school party-based turn-based RPG with decent production values and some interesting new ideas. Why is the Codex so hostile toward this? I would think he'd get more support here.

I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I'm not especially proud of it, but this guy rubs me the wrong way. Of course I'd rather see a great game made than watch him fall on his ass again, but he's still the same arrogant clod who started his first Kickstarter with, "Hey kids! It's me! Guido Henkel! Sole creator of Planescape: Torment! That was ME!! GUIDO!! SAY MY NAME!!" This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it. Then he says he doesn't want to tell us his ideas for fear they'll be stolen by rival Kickstarters! (They're everywhere you know!) Everything about him screams that he thinks all the answers are up his own ass. Maybe it's true that some of them really are there, but the whole thing kind of smells, you know?

 

[Lady_Error]

I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I'm not especially proud of it, but this guy rubs me the wrong way. Of course I'd rather see a great game made than watch him fall on his ass again, but he's still the same arrogant clod who started his first Kickstarter with, "Hey kids! It's me! Guido Henkel! Sole creator of Planescape: Torment! That was ME!! GUIDO!! SAY MY NAME!!"

Where exactly did he say that he is the sole creator of Planescape: Torment?

This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it.

How is he trumpeting his experience by not talking about it? Besides, what's wrong with trumpeting your experience in a Kickstarter? That doesn't make any sense.

This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it. Then he says he doesn't want to tell us his ideas for fear they'll be stolen by rival Kickstarters! (They're everywhere you know!) Everything about him screams that he thinks all the answers are up his own ass. Maybe it's true that some of them really are there, but the whole thing kind of smells, you know?

I don't.

 

[theSavant]

He doesn't want to expose too much in case the KS fails. But it's too late, since he already mentioned the psycho engine. Now every developer will build a psycho engine

 

[Gord]

I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I'm not especially proud of it, but this guy rubs me the wrong way. Of course I'd rather see a great game made than watch him fall on his ass again, but he's still the same arrogant clod who started his first Kickstarter with, "Hey kids! It's me! Guido Henkel! Sole creator of Planescape: Torment! That was ME!! GUIDO!! SAY MY NAME!!"

Thing is, he never did.
But he sure seems to inspire butthurt with some people, as evidenced by you and other people here.

 

[Alchemist]

And now he’s after some of that sweet, sweet Kickstarter cash to fund a new fantasy roleplayer in the Grimrock mould.

I'm glad RPS covered this but that whole sentence made me face-palm. It's absolutely not a Grimrock / DM clone. I guess that will reel in more of the RPS audience though.

I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I'm not especially proud of it, but this guy rubs me the wrong way. Of course I'd rather see a great game made than watch him fall on his ass again, but he's still the same arrogant clod who started his first Kickstarter with, "Hey kids! It's me! Guido Henkel! Sole creator of Planescape: Torment! That was ME!! GUIDO!! SAY MY NAME!!" This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it. Then he says he doesn't want to tell us his ideas for fear they'll be stolen by rival Kickstarters! (They're everywhere you know!) Everything about him screams that he thinks all the answers are up his own ass. Maybe it's true that some of them really are there, but the whole thing kind of smells, you know?

Long ago I came to the realization that talented, creative people often don't have the best interpersonal skills, and some of them are indeed arrogant. I got over it - since all I really care about is that they create something of value, good art / music / entertainment or whatever their field is. I don't need to hang out with them and be their friend, I just need to enjoy what they create. And I think Guido actually appears a lot more humble this time around, compared to Thorvalla. But take Cleve Blakemore for example - he has personality traits that many people might dislike, yet the Grimoire superdemo has been very well-received.

And I realize Guido's studio is small and they've probably put all their resources into the creative side and not hired slick PR people to do the talking. I'm fine with that, I can judge what they present of the game on its own merits.

 

[stony3k]

I gotta agree with Gord and Alchemist. I just don't understand why so many of the Codex is so butthurt and mad at Guido. You need to judge his pitch by the games he made and wants to make, not by his personality.

 

[Morality Games]

Based on Kicktraq, Deathfire is the 6th most popular campaign, which means it's doing comparatively well. Of course, it looks like it'll only make 250K or so, unless he gets a big push from somewhere.

I gotta agree with Gord and Alchemist. I just don't understand why so many of the Codex is so butthurt and mad at Guido. You need to judge his pitch by the games he made and wants to make, not by his personality.

Do I need to mention the quota again?

But take Cleve Blakemore for example - he has personality traits that many people might dislike, yet the Grimoire superdemo has been very well-received.

Like being too awesome? That Sir-Tech post gave me the biggest laugh I've had in awhile.

 

[Lady_Error]

And now he’s after some of that sweet, sweet Kickstarter cash to fund a new fantasy roleplayer in the Grimrock mould.

I'm glad RPS covered this but that whole sentence made me face-palm. It's absolutely not a Grimrock / DM clone. I guess that will reel in more of the RPS audience though.

It is pretty much a Grimrock clone, except with more features and turn-based combat. From what I understand, Grimrock and its success was the inspiration for this game.

Also, I thought RPS did an amazing job marketing his game - probably better in some ways than Guido did it himself. They mentioned P:T, RoA, even his involvement in Fallout 2 and the face on the Planescape cover.

 

[stony3k]

Morality Games So you're saying that the butthurt is due to the campaign failing? I just don't see that - most people complaining about Guido are doing so without contributing on KS. They just seem to be bitching without any reason, but when pushed they say it's because the pitch is bad - it's not as popular as the ones by inXile or Obsidian but for a relatively unknown developer (the why has been discussed before), this is not doing so bad. IMHO a lot of the Codex is behaving like kids at school who join with the bullies to make fun of the nerds, without any reason other than "group think".

 

[Infinitron]

There are more people complaining about the complainers ITT than actual complainers.

Grunker is not responsible for sinking this KS, guys. Move on.

 

[Alchemist]

It is pretty much a Grimrock clone, except with more features and turn-based combat. From what I understand, Grimrock and its success was the inspiration for this game.

If that is the case then they're giving off mixed signals, since they say this on their KS page:

If your heart sings at the memory of classic computer role-playing games, such as “Realms of Arkania,” “Wizardry” or the “Might & Magic” series, this project is for you!

I think in his early blog posts about Deathfire Guido was talking about a more Grimrock-like game, but it seems to have changed gears into a more full-featured CRPG at some point.

 

[Lady_Error]

Well, it is still quite linear like Grimrock, unless they get enough money to add more open world features.

 

[Alchemist]

But take Cleve Blakemore for example - he has personality traits that many people might dislike, yet the Grimoire superdemo has been very well-received.

Like being too awesome? That Sir-Tech post gave me the biggest laugh I've had in awhile.

Well I'm with ya there - Cleve is a comedic genius and has a brilliant way with words. And his Grimoire pitch video was the best crowdfunding video ever made.

Well, it is still quite linear like Grimrock, unless they get enough money to add more open world features.

Yeah I see what you mean. It's somewhere in between Grimrock and a full-on big world CRPG.

 

[Zombra]

"Hey kids! It's me! Guido Henkel! Sole creator of Planescape: Torment! That was ME!! GUIDO!! SAY MY NAME!!"

Where exactly did he say that he is the sole creator of Planescape: Torment?

Thing is, he never did.

He absolutely did. It was right there in the Thorvalla pitch video and prominently on the KS page. "The Creator of Planescape: Torment". Not "one of the creators"; not "producer"; "the creator", singular.
Maybe it was just miscommunication, but he took sole credit. It was edited out about a week into the campaign.

This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it.

How is he trumpeting his experience by not talking about it? Besides, what's wrong with trumpeting your experience in a Kickstarter? That doesn't make any sense.

One of the first things he says is how he has a great and heroic past in RPG development, but then says he doesn't want to talk about it. Nothing's wrong with showing your résumé ... in fact he should. But saying "I've got an awesome résumé; too bad I'm not gonna show it to you ... now hire me" is both disrespectful and uninformative.

This time around he tells us that we don't want to hear about his experience, while still trumpeting it. Then he says he doesn't want to tell us his ideas for fear they'll be stolen by rival Kickstarters! (They're everywhere you know!) Everything about him screams that he thinks all the answers are up his own ass. Maybe it's true that some of them really are there, but the whole thing kind of smells, you know?

I don't.

If you don't get that vibe from him, you don't get that vibe from him. I can respect that. But man, it sure seems like a lot of people are getting a bad vibe from him.

And now he’s after some of that sweet, sweet Kickstarter cash to fund a new fantasy roleplayer in the Grimrock mould.

I'm glad RPS covered this but that whole sentence made me face-palm. It's absolutely not a Grimrock / DM clone. I guess that will reel in more of the RPS audience though.

Yeah, I hope not. Grimlock had some good puzzle gameplay, but as an RPG I thought it sucked rocks. Luckily, Deathfire looks like it really wants to put character back in its characters. I'm into it.

I'm not especially proud of it, but this guy rubs me the wrong way.

Long ago I came to the realization that talented, creative people often don't have the best interpersonal skills, and some of them are indeed arrogant. I got over it - since all I really care about is that they create something of value, good art / music / entertainment or whatever their field is. I don't need to hang out with them and be their friend, I just need to enjoy what they create. And I think Guido actually appears a lot more humble this time around, compared to Thorvalla. And I realize Guido's studio is small and they've probably put all their resources into the creative side and not hired slick PR people to do the talking. I'm fine with that, I can judge what they present of the game on its own merits.

:applause: Yeah, that's absolutely the right attitude to have towards any artist and their work. On one level, if the work is valuable to you and meaningful as art, it doesn't matter where it comes from. On another level, though, knowledge of where the artist is coming from can inform your interpretation of the work, for good or bad. So far, I don't think I've confused the work with the artist. I've criticised the art direction, praised the ambitious character system, and complained about Guido's personal presentation. These are separate issues, but all different facets of the same project. If* I decide that Guido is a jerk, I can still enjoy his games, but a strong opinion of him honestly can pollute the experience.

*Note: I said if.

 

[almondblight]

They just got a push from Rock Paper Shotgun:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...ducer-proffers-deathfire-ruins-of-nethermore/

Interesting thing is that the reactions to the pitch are mostly positive (though not so much the exclusive name or class). Donations have also gone up significantly. More evidence that media exposure (and the high goal) are more of an issue than the pitch, despite what Codex marketing geniuses may say.

 

[Morality Games]

Morality Games So you're saying that the butthurt is due to the campaign failing? I just don't see that - most people complaining about Guido are doing so without contributing on KS. They just seem to be bitching without any reason, but when pushed they say it's because the pitch is bad - it's not as popular as the ones by inXile or Obsidian but for a relatively unknown developer (the why has been discussed before), this is not doing so bad. IMHO a lot of the Codex is behaving like kids at school who join with the bullies to make fun of the nerds, without any reason other than "group think".

No, I'm saying that that certain Codex posters have quotas to fill so that everybody knows how hardcore they are.

In seriousness, the Codex represents a broad spectrum of very specialized tastes in RPGs tied together by a few shared values, one of them being, "everything is shit." Less than lukewarm reactions are to be expected to most things. Unless you are a Guido Henkel fan or an enthusiast of blobbers, there's no real reason not to lump him with the rest of the perceived decline.

Interesting thing is that the reactions to the pitch are mostly positive (though not so much the exclusive name or class). Donations have also gone up significantly. More evidence that media exposure (and the high goal) are more of an issue than the pitch, despite what Codex marketing geniuses may say.

Quite so. The KickStarter's success or failure is not a foregone conclusion by any means.

 

[Lady_Error]

It's funny how the "hardcore crowd" turns out to be just arrogant dumbfucks who cannot even keep their stories straight.

It's even more funny considering that a turn-based blobber is probably as "hardcore" and oldschool as it gets when it comes to RPG's.

 

[Monty]

CODEX CRITICAL OF A DEVELOPER - gaming world shocked, stunned and dismayed. "We just never saw this coming" say industry sources. "If the last bastion of decency, tolerance and inclusiveness on the internet takes this approach, where do humble and sensitive developers like Guido Henkel go from here"?

 

[Mortmal]

I dont understand why so many were white knighting might and magic 10 and discard this game because guido seems "arrogant",this guys already made games, theres already a lot to show and that doesnt seems more dumbed down than usual. Stretch goals arent the best , the 500$ full access to an additionnal class(yes i understand everyone will be able to use it for a bit, but still) is completely retarded and will be probably available to everyone who got it from pirate bay but not to the honest 25$ backer.
However if we are not backing this who will, i am pretty sure the turn based blobber is not so niche , but people interested into that are people of .. a certain age who may not be aware of l kickstarter campaigns. This guy should get a real publisher and advertise on steam.I backed it, but highly doubt it will get 390k .

 

[Infinitron]

I dont understand why so many were white knighting might and magic 10

Lots of people on the Codex are edgy about MMX. That said, it's only natural that people take a more critical approach to somebody who's asking for their money up-front to create something.

Except you guys are kinda imagining things anyway because there's actually not that much criticism of Guido ITT. Zombra and Grunker != "the Codex".

 

[Mortmal]

Ah that's true, but grunker did interviews,is member of staff, and therefore willing or not , is a prominent character of the codex . Its not surprsing that guido doesnt mention the codex then , its not only grunker and zombra ,the thread is very negative from the first page : Not gonna happen, pay to win , hilarious, smokescreen to take money.....
The guy is asking money upfront, how is that different from every other projects ? Might and amgic X despite being funded by ubisoft is early accces selling a promise of a game , its even worse .Its not critical approach its clearly bashing a potential good blobber because the creator is not a good marketing guy.

 

[V_K]

Except you guys are kinda imagining things anyway because there's actually not that much criticism of Guido ITT. Zombra and Grunker != "the Codex".

What's the first page of this thread about, then?