Game News Deathfire: Ruins of Nethermore Kickstarter is Live

[theSavant]

Stop the critical voices! I don't want to hear them any longer, especially if they are right!

 

[Zed]

3 backers for the nethermancer class so far. Sure is gonna be an exclusive class...

 

[Davaris]

Well, if this one fails, I'm sure Guido's third KS attempt, a sci-fi isometric rtwp rpg with a parser, will be the definite success.

Hands off. That's my idea.

 

[Alchemist]

I think it's premature to categorize this as D.O.A. Still 30 days to go and a lot can happen. But he has set up for himself an uphill battle with some of his choices. Like this one from the comments (Guido replying to why he didn't mention Planescape / RoA everywhere) :

I prefer to let the game presentation speak for itself, really. I think impressing on people the credentials too hard would be counterproductive and would only create an aloof impression of name dropping, which I have no interest in.

In a way, that is humble and admirable compared to other KS's that just drop nostalgic names with not even a prototype to show for their new game. But in this case I think it has really hindered him, since he's not a household name and those games are (in cRPG circles).

At this point he has a lot of damage control to do and needs to reply to people's concerns (and possibly axe the $500 exclusive class tier). For example, showing how introducing a 3rd person tactical combat system to a previously designed blobber combat system will work. I think that's what makes a lot of us here question the coherence of the game design vision.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Those millions cashed in by InXile, Obsidian and DF sure show how counterproductive namedropping is.

 

[theSavant]

It's frustrating, by the pace the pledges trickle the campaign eventually ends at 39.000$. Like the goal of 1500 backers within the first 48 hours might be the only ones for the whole campaign after all.

What if it fails like that? He has already invested 8 months in development time... start a third kickstarter? Change the name of the game? Change the type of game?
Have first person blobbers become such a small niche, that at maximum 10.000 people (Shaker had at least 7.700 backers) in the whole world would like to play such a game anymore?

 

[V_K]

What if it fails like that? He has already invested 8 months in development time... start a third kickstarter? Change the name of the game? Change the type of game?

Well, he was already approached by Sony, so I wouldn't take a publisher option out of the question. Or some early access gimmick (he probably should have gone directly for that in the first place, it looks like the kickstarter tide is falling and early access is the next best thing).

 

[Gord]

I think you can potentially reach much more, but the media coverage has to be there.
Also as evidenced by the Codex, he seems to inspire a lot of butthurt in some people.

Reminds me, someone with a Grimrock forum account willing to post there?

 

[Infinitron]

Have first person blobbers become such a small niche, that at maximum 10.000 people (Shaker had at least 7.700 backers) in the whole world would like to play such a game anymore?

Plenty of people want to play blobbers. They don't seem particularly interested in crowdfunding them, however.

 

[Zombra]

One thing that sounds great in the pitch is character reactions. I really love the idea of all those personality traits being on the character sheet with numerical values, and those values having gameplay impact, with my characters' feelings mattering in hard game terms. Having characters complain about things they don't like or get excited about their interests would be really cool. Characters arguing amongst themselves would also be fantastic to see (especially since most every P&P campaign I've ever been in has had major intraparty arguments). It almost sounds like it would be Jagged Alliance-y in that way, except with player-created characters instead of premade mercs. Like Wizardry 8, except with meaningful reactions instead of just colorful comments (don't get me wrong; I love W8's colorful comments).

There's a lot about his pitch that doesn't thrill me, but that alone has me interested.

 

[Dorateen]

Deathfire looks like a much better game than Thorvalla. I wish this campaign would succeed. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

I prefer to support Independent developers who invest their own capital into a project, and then I will line up for a day one purchase or pre-order.

Kickstarter is a fad, a trendy counter-cultural phenomena, the earliest successes of last year simply caught lightning in a bottle. A classic fantasy traditional old-school dungeon crawler will not appeal to the most common denominator of the kickstarter market. Henkel should get a loan or ask his government for a grant (assuming he doesn't have enough private resources) in order to finish his game and then sell his product like a grown-up, through the myriad distribution chanels available these days.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In a way, that is humble and admirable compared to other KS's that just drop nostalgic names with not even a prototype to show for their new game. But in this case I think it has really hindered him, since he's not a household name and those games are (in cRPG circles).

The problem is, he doesn't understand KS and thus is doing it wrong. Neither the 'first day only goodies' nonsense nor 'pay 500 to unlock a class' are particularly bright ideas. Obviously, the first day surge is important as are expensive tiers, but he's using a brute force approach, which only pisses people off.

 

[Gord]

If I'm interested in a game I frankly don't give a shit about first-day-backer goodies or one tier with a potentially stupid reward.
Fuck that. What I'm interested in is the game, and whether I trust them to make it. The rest is clutter.

 

[Grunker]

Have first person blobbers become such a small niche, that at maximum 10.000 people (Shaker had at least 7.700 backers) in the whole world would like to play such a game anymore?

Plenty of people want to play blobbers. They don't seem particularly interested in crowdfunding them, however.

Neither conclusions are wrong. It's that the pitches for blobbers have been weak, the concepts fairly dubious and the asking sum typically out of touch with the overall strength of the pitch.

 

[Grunker]

If I'm interested in a game I frankly don't give a shit about first-day-backer goodies or one tier with a potentially stupid reward.
Fuck that. What I'm interested in is the game, and whether I trust them to make it. The rest is clutter.

You don't seem to get it.

I don't care. You don't care. But some people do. And you and I and Guido depend on these people. It is up to the one doing the pitch to do his fucking homework.

Guido refuses, and when he fails, he blames the external reality instead of his own ineptitude.

He is the the one who went to Kickstarter. He is the one with the responsibility. Plenty of Kickstarters have reported that the most extensive piece of work is researching data on how to to succesful Kickstarters. You can't ignore that and just go "well fuck everyone!" when your shit doesn't work. Especially when you ignore criticism.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If I'm interested in a game I frankly don't give a shit about first-day-backer goodies or one tier with a potentially stupid reward.
Fuck that. What I'm interested in is the game, and whether I trust them to make it. The rest is clutter.

True, but Kickstarter has never been a "place about games". It's a place where you show your salesmanship, create excitement, razzle-dazzle style, upsell, and squeeze the last dollar like a true carny.

PS. What Grunker said.

 

[Infinitron]

You know, I actually don't think the Kickstarter pitch is that super-bad. I mean, it's got lots of images and screenshots and stuff! It's definitely not lazy.

It's just not very interesting. Maybe that's the problem. Is there a way to make a blobber interesting? Something that captures the imagination?

I don't know, maybe Guido should have talked less about his abstract plans for skill systems, dialogue and alchemy, and instead engaged in a bit of (gasp) storyfaggotry.

 

[Excidium]

It' s just not very interesting. Maybe that's the problem. Is there a way to make a blobber interesting? Something that captures the imagination?

Not making it a blobber is a good start.

 

[cherry blossom]

Somebody ought to get a clinical report for Guido, stating that he is mentally unfit to be on teh internets and legally needs a consultant doing his "internet work" for him. The guy is the biggest enemy of his own.

That or he needs a good assfucking by a publisher willing to fund his game.

 

[Morality Games]

Somebody ought to get a clinical report for Guido, stating that he is mentally unfit to be on teh internets and legally needs a consultant doing his "internet work" for him. The guy is the biggest enemy of his own.

That or he needs a good assfucking by a publisher willing to fund his game.

Sadly, failing a KickStarter probably prohibits an indie from getting publisher money. Publishers don't need reasons to point you out the door.

 

[Grunker]

You know, I actually don't think the Kickstarter pitch is that super-bad. I mean, it's got lots of images and screenshots and stuff! It's definitely not lazy.

It's just not very interesting. Maybe that's the problem. Is there a way to make a blobber interesting? Something that captures the imagination?

I don't know, maybe Guido should have talked less about his abstract plans for skill systems, dialogue and alchemy, and instead engaged in a bit of (gasp) storyfaggotry.

The pitch is much better than Thorvalla's, but he is pitching a game with less appeal, he is saying things that don't make sense to a lot of people (how do you make Wizardry 8 blobber combat and 3rd person tactical combat in the space of one game?), he has exclusives (which people detest mostly, unless apparantly you create you campaign COMPLETELY around exclusive, i.e. Star Citizen) and he lost some cred during Thorvalla. All these things conspire against him. I don't believe the mechanical focus was the problem.

Still wish him luck.

 

[Zombra]

I don't know, maybe Guido should have ... engaged in a bit of (gasp) storyfaggotry.

I doubt that would have helped. I'm betting that the "story" is as schlocky as everything else we're seeing: a rag tag group of adventurers finds themselves the only hope for a nation plagued by evil magicks, and follow a series of clues that will lead them to the tomb of the magic key to destroy the evil wizard!! (Please, Guido: prove me wrong. Give me a reason to believe you're creative.)

I loved the part where he said there would be gripping plot twists and political intrigue. I almost laughed and said, "Yeah, right" out loud.

 

[Grunker]

Kickstarter is a fad, a trendy counter-cultural phenomena, the earliest successes of last year simply caught lightning in a bottle

quoted for posterity

 

[Morality Games]

Kickstarter is a fad, a trendy counter-cultural phenomena, the earliest successes of last year simply caught lightning in a bottle

Well, sort of. They did catch lightning in a bottle -- Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, and the Banner Saga went live just when hundreds of thousands were in the throes of the ME3 ending debacle and were willing to do anything to act out against the AAA gaming machine they held responsible for the decline of their favorite franchise.

That probably got developers attention disproportionate to crowdfunding's current level of popularity. Other projects will have trouble matching the same heights of backer commitment, but as the years go by KickStarter is likelier to become more popular, not less.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

I think Guido probably still has what it takes to create a fun game, and I have no problem backing the belief up with a $20 pledge, but I'm also (kind of) surprised at how he can't quite seem to grasp his own audience in general and KS in particular (cf. VD's post). The tragicomic bit is that it is often simply a question of completely misguided presentation. The $500 nethermancer tier fiasco is a good example: reading up on the background reveals that it's in fact most likely a pretty irrelevant gimmick, but the way it's worded makes it sound as if they actually cut a full playable character class and turned it into a $500 DLC, which of course is guaranteed to rub everyone the wrong way. I wish the team luck and I'd like to see the game finished, but I'm tempted to stay away from all updates while the campaign lasts so as not to have to watch Guido shoot himself in the foot day in and day out with every new attempt to turn things around.