Diablo IV

[ArchAngel]

I want to play this but a confluence of factors has made it unviable - ludicrous price tag (even for the "basic" version), not being available on Steam or GoG or other sane platforms, and always-online bullshit.

My coworkers are bothering me to get this, so I looked it up. 70 euro for the cheap version on pc. Already talking about battlepasses and shit. HAHAHAHAHAHA nope.

This is my reaction as well. For about 40E or less I think there could be some value from this game but this is not worth the full AAA price.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah it's Blizzard so it's kinda to be expected but holy shit full on whale MTX ($20 for a skin) AND full price AAA lmao

 

[Reinhardt]

lost ark had gud story dungeons. and big end-game boss fights were not that retarded d4 thingy. at least you couldn't overwhelm them with random human wave, because there was limited number of character respawns, shared by your whole party, so no suicide retards allowed. d4 world bosses is random area boss tier from lost ark.

 

[KIss My Ass]

Some of these fights are ridiculous. This guy keeps spawning like elite tier enemies. Not sure what I can do except get raped.

 

[Gromoer]

I want to play this but a confluence of factors has made it unviable - ludicrous price tag (even for the "basic" version), not being available on Steam or GoG or other sane platforms, and always-online bullshit.

It's like game developers nowadays actively don't want you to buy their game. It's like running a fucking obstacle course, and your reward is a letdown.

It's often said of capitalism that it kinda works in the sense that it does produce stuff we want, most of the time, and produce it well. And that's true to an extent, but there seems to be a level of development of capitalist institutions where they no longer really work on the profit principle, but start to compete for market share, and/or promote their hobby-horses. Which is natural, really, but should be carefully monitored by a democratically-elected State.

There seems to be a point where capitalist product actually gets more clunky and shoddy instead of more streamlined and shiny. That's been the case a lot with computers in some areas (e.g. the proliferation of office make-work, when we were promised a "paperless office").

In a way, this is both a libertarian argument that they (big capitalists) are not behaving in a properly capitalist manner (they're not maximizing profit, but a kind of dominance hierarchy status that's outside the domain of economic behaviour proper) and a Left-wing argument against corporate greed.

Do we really hate the small businessman, the entrepreneur, the shopkeeper? No, in fact the way capitalism develops in the real world, it seems to shut such people out - i.e. the middle class gets squeezed out, and you have the super-rich and the plebs, with a merely managerial (not entrepreneurial) class inbeetween. As Burns said, "there's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip" and something goes wrong with the capitalist process at some scales and in some conditions. The best thing for capitalism is actually a strong state that rules with a light hand, a state capable of severely punishing capitalist malfeasance, and very willing to do so if necessary, but that leaves capitalist acts between consenting adults free, so long as they're not harmful.

Oh God, am I becoming a libertarian again?

While I agree with the overall notion, that capitalism requires some clear rules of behavior and an inevitable punishment for messing with them, I don’t agree that the current big capitalists are not behaving in a properly capitalist manner. Their race for market influence and dominance is very much aimed at increasing profits (whether it is camouflaged as projecting a popular agenda or even if it seems like a stupid idea like making access to their products more convoluted), which they successfully achieve as we can observe. Overall it is very natural for capitalism to strive for power and in the end to be the power.

 

[Ryzer]

Yeah it's Blizzard so it's kinda to be expected but holy shit full on whale MTX ($20 for a skin) AND full price AAA lmao

This kind of fuckery can be traced back to Wow when they sold a fully-priced game (60$) + extensions (which is fine) and mandatory monthly subscriptions(which is not) to get the full content.
I remember that they wanted to sell skins separately in Diablo 1 in discs that you had to pay for but they ditched the idea.

 

[gurugeorge]

Lost Ark is so fucking bad. I couldn't stand more than 20-30 mins of it.

I lasted for a couple of hours

 

[KIss My Ass]

I had to shut it off. I was on the verge of destroying expensive shit. Almost chucked my controller into the tv screen. What a stupid fuckin fight. I have zero patience for that bullshit.

 

[gurugeorge]

I want to play this but a confluence of factors has made it unviable - ludicrous price tag (even for the "basic" version), not being available on Steam or GoG or other sane platforms, and always-online bullshit.

It's like game developers nowadays actively don't want you to buy their game. It's like running a fucking obstacle course, and your reward is a letdown.

It's often said of capitalism that it kinda works in the sense that it does produce stuff we want, most of the time, and produce it well. And that's true to an extent, but there seems to be a level of development of capitalist institutions where they no longer really work on the profit principle, but start to compete for market share, and/or promote their hobby-horses. Which is natural, really, but should be carefully monitored by a democratically-elected State.

There seems to be a point where capitalist product actually gets more clunky and shoddy instead of more streamlined and shiny. That's been the case a lot with computers in some areas (e.g. the proliferation of office make-work, when we were promised a "paperless office").

In a way, this is both a libertarian argument that they (big capitalists) are not behaving in a properly capitalist manner (they're not maximizing profit, but a kind of dominance hierarchy status that's outside the domain of economic behaviour proper) and a Left-wing argument against corporate greed.

Do we really hate the small businessman, the entrepreneur, the shopkeeper? No, in fact the way capitalism develops in the real world, it seems to shut such people out - i.e. the middle class gets squeezed out, and you have the super-rich and the plebs, with a merely managerial (not entrepreneurial) class inbeetween. As Burns said, "there's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip" and something goes wrong with the capitalist process at some scales and in some conditions. The best thing for capitalism is actually a strong state that rules with a light hand, a state capable of severely punishing capitalist malfeasance, and very willing to do so if necessary, but that leaves capitalist acts between consenting adults free, so long as they're not harmful.

Oh God, am I becoming a libertarian again?

While I agree with the overall notion, that capitalism requires some clear rules of behavior and an inevitable punishment for messing with them, I don’t agree that the current big capitalists are not behaving in a properly capitalist manner. Their race for market influence and dominance is very much aimed at increasing profits (whether it is camouflaged as projecting a popular agenda or even if it seems like a stupid idea like making access to their products more convoluted), which they successfully achieve as we can observe. Overall it is very natural for capitalism to strive for power and in the end to be the power.

The trouble is that the pursuit of the woke agenda is bad for profits. This is the conundrum of "get woke, go broke" - it's actually true, corporations do lose money for pursuing the woke/globalist agenda, but it doesn't make any difference, because BlackRock, Vanguard, etc., are willing to throw untold amounts of money at pumping it.

IOW, people think the woke agenda is pushed to "tick boxes" to appease a certain audience and make money off them. But that's obviously not the case, because while there's certainly a percentage of hardcore people who are into the woke/globalist agenda, for the most part it's hugely unpopular - so that, if they wanted to actually make money they would appeal to normal interests. This has been shown in a small way with the movies that do become hits, like Top Gun or the last big Spidey movie. Those are the sorts of things the vast majority of people want, but seldom get, because pushing the Narrative is more important.

But I guess that's getting too much into politics for this thread.

 

[Yosharian]

WOW is an MMO. Apples and oranges.

 

[spectre]

Since the thread seems to gravitate towards: what to play that isn't Diablo 4 (and not Poe, not Grim Dawn, not Last Epoch, not Diablo Resurrected while we're at it), I recommend looking at Wolcen.
While it still has that meme quality: - Son, we have Biadlo 4 at home, combat is very dynamic and it flows in a very similar way. I think D4 directly lifted some of its mechanics,
like the dash charges. Itemization is just as bad but skills were actually quite satisfying and much more customizable. It also has a PoE-like skill wheel which you can rotate.

Now, as it is still a Diablo 4 thread, I'm still on a fence, but suppose I will cave if I ever see a good deal for it. It looks like a proper product and an honest attempt to unfuck D3.
They really want to milk the Diablo nostalgia for all its worth, I even recognized some of the shrine descriptions ("Arcane power brings forth destruction") are lifted from D1.

Shit I dislike the most (from my limited time with the slam and looking at the videos) are the skills. As I mouse over the tree, my most frequent reaction is: the fuck would I even waste a point here?
6 second duration on a 15 second cooldown? Your grace is too kind. And the exclusive choices seem to be do I want a turd sandwich or a maggot salad.
My understanding is that the skills purposedly feel underpowered so that there is still a bit of leeway to augment them through other systems.

Another crappy thing is "encounter" design (though to be fair, very few games in the genre do it in a way I'd consider exemplary). If we can even call those encounters.
The game basically dumps enemies on your ass. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to get ambushed every now and then, but from what I've seen, this is ridiculous.
There's basically no such thing cautiously approaching a door before you clear a room, because the enemies will probably teleport right on your ass.

 

[Kjaska]

Just play V Rising. It's only 20 bux and looks like a much more interesting game:

 

[Reinhardt]

I recommend looking at Wolcen.

come on, nigga, even d4 is not THAT bad

 

[Ryzer]

WOW is an MMO. Apples and oranges.

Guild Wars 1 is a pay-once and get everything. Being an MMO is not an excuse.

 

[ArchAngel]

Just play V Rising. It's only 20 bux and looks like a much more interesting game:

Isn't this MMO with PvP focus?

 

[Perkel]

Isn't this MMO with PvP focus?

You can play single player. But yeah. And it is very tedious as you have there crafting ala funcom games so you build forge to build better weapons in typical mmo crafting fashion.

Out of all arpgs on market there are only D2, POE and Grim Dawn that could be considered D4 rivals. Rest are either retarded (V rising), undercooked(Last Epoch) or just straight up bad (Diablo3). They aren't perfect though as each have their own issues but they have some benefits that outweigh problems.

 

[Yosharian]

WOW is an MMO. Apples and oranges.

Guild Wars 1 is a pay-once and get everything. Being an MMO is not an excuse.

Please let's not pretend that GW1/2 have anywhere near the content of WoW

WoW's content is mostly shit, but that's a different issue

 

[toro]

Some of these fights are ridiculous. This guy keeps spawning like elite tier enemies. Not sure what I can do except get raped.

git gud

edit: honestly, the game is easy af.

 

[toro]

Just play V Rising. It's only 20 bux and looks like a much more interesting game:

Yes ... because vampires were born to cut wood and build sawmills. Fml

 

[Kjaska]

Yes ... because vampires were born to cut wood and build sawmills. Fml

There is resource gathering in D4 as well, jfyi.

 

[Tyrr]

Some of these fights are ridiculous. This guy keeps spawning like elite tier enemies. Not sure what I can do except get raped.

The wrong build/class to overcome the level scaling.
Better luck next time.

 

[Perkel]

There is resource gathering in D4 as well, jfyi.

Which you don't need to do because all resources can be gathered just from doing stuff other than gathering. Only time I ever gather resources was at start for like 5 minutes since then not even once.

V Rising resources and crafting ala mmo is main part of game.

 

[Latelistener]

Since the thread seems to gravitate towards: what to play that isn't Diablo 4 (and not Poe, not Grim Dawn, not Last Epoch, not Diablo Resurrected while we're at it), I recommend looking at Wolcen.

To be honest it was a bit of a shock for me to see D4 gameplay after Wolcen. I thought it was some kind of indie game for $20 from Steam.

I mean, Wolcen has Mixed reviews on Steam and yet, it's more dynamic, visually impressive and has better animations. And it was about $10 on Steam.

Spoiler

 

[Mortmal]

Just play V Rising. It's only 20 bux and looks like a much more interesting game:

Isn't this MMO with PvP focus?

It isnt , its more like those semi mmo ark clones or valheim with less content and shittier gameplay. It was rated overwhelmingly positive at launch as every fun titles when there's nothing else to play. Gameplay isnt that great , 20 hours to see everything, the fortress building is shallow , was quickly bored with it. If you play this with friends its certainly another story, but that can be said for every games.
Also early access, enough said...

 

[ArchAngel]

Just play V Rising. It's only 20 bux and looks like a much more interesting game:

Isn't this MMO with PvP focus?

It isnt , its more like those semi mmo ark clones or valheim with less content and shittier gameplay. It was rated overwhelmingly positive at launch as every fun titles when there's nothing else to play. Gameplay isnt that great , 20 hours to see everything, the fortress building is shallow , was quickly bored with it. If you play this with friends its certainly another story, but that can be said for every games.
Also early access, enough said...

But Ziz was also talking about people attacking their fortress and how someone needed to guard it all the time.. that sounds like very cancer PvP gameplay in the vein of Travian type of games.